johnsch322

I actually thought the question was straight forward. My opinion that scouters within an LC would be better off if the LC gave up a greater share of their assets now than face the uncertainty of the outcome of the LC becoming bankrupt.

I am going out on a limb and presuming you mean the current settlement offer. I will go further and assume you are not a claimant/victim.

The abusers definitely are. But unfortunately most of them are dead or unidentifiable.

Not sure which LC you belong to but would it be in the best interest of your current scouters if your LC had to declare bankruptcy?

I would like to add that for anyone who cares about current scouters satisfying victims is in their best interest. If the vote doesn't pass and this all goes to the toggle plan their will be many LC's going bankrupt. That will hurt current scouters more than meaningful money being put into the settlement by LC's.

I gag at blood pudding and I was born in the UK LOL

I think that the forum would be quite boring if everyone thought the same way. For the most part I find these discussions to be quite civil.

That was BSA's secondary plan where they exit bankruptcy on their own. If not enough votes are garnered in favor of the current plan that may be what the judge orders. Nor was this a problem that survivors created.

But they are offering 57K. But they can do a lot better.

And in reality that is my position. If the BSA national cannot put together and adequate compensation package do the toggle plan (BSA exits alone) and let us go after LC's CO's and insurance company's in state court.

Ok a half million dollars to me would require a $665,000 award (my lawyers would get 33.3%). That is a hell of a lot more than 57K which is on the table right now. My personal feeling is that I should receive 1.5 to 2M and out of that would come my lawyers cut. If I was in state court the 2M might be on the low side. So you see there is an amount that I would be content with and there is an amount beyond what the BSA is offering that you think is fair. So now please go to whomever you know within the BSA and ask for claimants to get a fair settlement.

I am sorry but I find that to be a terrible response to a pointed question. I will try to ask again in a different way. I am a tier one victim and my abuse occurred in an open state with aggravating factors. My abuse has been vetted by a psychiatrist and I am currently in therapy and on Prozac. How much do you think would be a fair amount for me? Please do not beat around the bush and give me your honest opinion.

I agree. I will wait for a response and I hope it is not the old cliche of “there is not enough money to make claimants happy”. I find that type of response to be insulting and demeaning.

The lowest LOL. And no BS about caring.

So is there a number between 1.7B and 100B that would be fair and balanced in your eyes?

No amount of adult supervision will keep this from happening. When there is will there is a way.

Taking this a step further...if they are having sexual relations and it occurs on a BSA outing is the BSA then on the hook for sexual abuse? Adult having sex with a minor?

I understand so maybe I should have said it sounds like a step in the right direction.

Now that sounds fair.

At this juncture yes. Let me qualify what I mean. If this is as good of a plan that BSA can come up with than yes.

First you need to understand that BSA's purpose for entering Bankruptcy was to keep as much of their assets as possible while getting out of the pile of crap they themselves had created. They wanted to get the LC's off the hook along with themselves. That goal has never changed. Put up just enough to make all of this go away. They totally underestimated the number of claimants. Then they cut the first deal with Hartford (which was more than atrocious). They than went to LC's and said hey put up some money I think we can make this turd of an offer shine a little. They were cut off at the knees. Back to the drawing board they went. A little more money from National, a little more from LC's, talk to Hartford firm up a little more guaranteed cash, pressure on some CO's voila 250M from LDS but only to LDS CO survivors (whoa I have to split my LC's money with them and get none of the LDS money...that sucks). Cut a deal with the Coalition for millions promise the sky when you basically have already capped the major contributors at pennies on the dollar and in doing this you lose the support of the TCC. Turd still has no shine. Now they want to send this all out for a vote. So if I and other claimants vote yes we pretty much settle for the muddy turd. If we vote no the worst we get is the proverbial turd and if enough say no (and you only need more than about 35,000 no votes we stand a strong chance of getting more. With the toggle plan we get to go to state court or the entity's who are trying to shirt tail onto the Bankruptcy (LC's, CO's Insurance companies) need to come up with more. In my opinion BSA National should exit bankruptcy on their own and let everyone else defend themselves.

Fair is an option that BSA is not pursuing.

You are correct in saying “BSA/councils are guilty of not describing their finances” but the sad truth is that until they do claimants will have a hard time to vote yes until they do. It will be the claimants who decide if the offer is fair and that will be through the voting process.

If I am not mistaken (legal minds please let me know) the judge would have to put a gag order on all the lawyers not just one.

And where are you getting your information from to be able to state that "other than if they were to liquidate"? Los Padres council has 17 million in assets and offering up 1.7M and so you say any more than that they have to liquidate? They could not continue to operate if they offered up 5.1M or 25% of their assets?