Armymutt

I think you're quibbling. Changes have been made to every badge/rank requirement over the past 40 years. I wouldn't say that my Second Class that required skill awards is different than the Second Class of today without them. Adding essentially a totin chip, a little more in-depth knowledge of Scouts BSA, and tie two more knots. Interestingly, Scouts no longer have to agree to live by the Oath, Law, motto, slogan, and outdoor code. I can't say that that is a positive change.

I don't know the SMs for all the troops I had. Each Scout volunteered and had to go through an interview process for Day Camp, so there was a barrier to entry. Not a significant one, but enough to dissuade some. Tasks were things like help the older Scouts keep water jugs full and help out the volunteers at stations. Not exactly hard things. Instead, I'd find them wandering off to hang out in a back room.

Does anyone have an idea of how this will work for kids already in the pipeline? It would be pretty crappy for a kid to be looking forward to earning AOL in August 2024 because he only has 2 adventures to do over the summer while waiting for the 6 months since turning 10 to arrive.

It's been around a lot longer than since 2015. I earned it in '86 and it was essentially the Boy Scout version of the Bobcat. A Scout can still join in 5th grade and earn the AOL in 6 months. That doesn't change. Instead, your DL will now have 6 months to complete 8 adventures. In some cases, even less time. We have a Scout who turned 10 at the beginning of 4th grade. He could earn the AOL and cross over in February 2024. The other two would need to wait until December 2024 since they don't turn 10 until July. That gives the DL realistically 3 months to accomplish all 8 adventures. You think that there won't be pressure to get those done fast, quality be damned? Troops want Scouts. Parents want to get to a program where they don't have to be involved. As far as progression, I think the program as shown above looks very consistent, but nowhere near as broad as the present program. Four out of the 6 required look like they are school-type things. The kids get bored being preached to all the time. That was the biggest complaint we got - they sat in school all day and then were expected to sit in school at Scouts. Not fun.

Yes. The Bobcat has been the first rank earn for most of the life of the program. It became a cloth badge in 1972. It's like saying, "We don't need the Scout badge anymore." What does the kid earn for knowing the basics of Cub Scouts? It's a big deal for a Cubbie to earn a badge after the first couple of meetings so that they have something on their shirt. It showed that they belonged to the Pack and actually achieved something significant. In the old days, it was pinned on upside down until the Scout did a good turn. Now they will be a blank shirt for a year. For the boys whose parents can only afford a shirt, the belt loops are useless. Same for the girls who wear their shirts untucked or with the leggings. Frankly, most 5 y/o's don't memorize the Scout Oath, Scout Law, CS motto, etc very well. Having them try to pronounce, much less memorize these things is going to be very difficult.

Do you see a Bobcat rank on that chart? The Bobcat rank is eliminated. It becomes nothing more than an Adventure.

I'm sure there will be different requirements, but why eliminate the joining badge? I'm curious how one set of requirements is ineffective. What does that mean? The kids learn the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Cub Scout Motto, CS sign, CS handshake, CS salute, and do the YP requirement. How was this so difficult to do? These excuses for its elimination are so vague. Now we have 8 required adventures to earn a rank rather than the previous 7. That drives up the cost of the program. Lion goes from being $13.87 a Scout to $20.28 with taxes here in NC. The idea that there were inconsistent numbers of adventures for each rank is a lie. Lions, Webelos, and AOL were outliers, sure. However, the number of requirements for many of the latter are greater for each adventure than the others. The other three each have 7 Adventures required. I'm also curious how we are meant to get through 3 additional AOL adventures by February without decreasing the quality of the program. Hopefully we can continue to keep the kids who are on the current program working on the current program until they AOL out.

I don't like the removal of Bobcat as a rank. What's the point of repeatedly earning Bobcat every year? We already have the Protect Yourself Rules one that everyone earns but we don't purchase. The Bobcat currently serves the same purpose as the Scout rank. It ensures each Cub Scout has a baseline of the Cub Program. Where is that going to fit in now? Are we going to just leave those in the wind? Rank badges are a more tangible thing that the kids can sew on their uniform vs belt loops that require an additional uniform item be purchased. Rank patches are far more visible than belt loops, especially for the girls who usually wear their shirts untucked. Parents also like to pin their own Bobcat badge on their child as a way of shared experiences. The child likes wearing Daddy's badge, at least for the night.

I mean that the Scouts act more like Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts. I supervised a group of Scouts from across the district at our Cub Scout day camp. The ones from our CO needed far more supervision. They lacked motivation to get their tasks done without me having to check up on them. I don't know what the average age of the troop is right now. They have no interaction with us. The SPL appears to be a high schooler - probably same age as the SPLs I had as a kid.

I'm about 90% certain that we won't be moving to the troop at the current CO. They don't have a girl troop yet, which will become a factor a couple years after my son moves up. I've seen their SPL and am not impressed. Severe lack of discipline in that troop. The COR is about the public face of the troop. I've spent three years rowing against the tide to keep the Pack afloat and am tired of fighting to make things run right. I'm looking at a troop that is about 5 minutes closer to our house. They utilize the patrol method. It also has most of the Scouters in the district who are active on our side of town. They have a few downsides, such as meeting in a pavilion that is hot in the summer and cold in the winter. They also don't do fundraising when I last checked. It's a huge troop, which can be a bit unwieldy. My exposure to the troops is via the OA and being the SM for Cub Scout day camp, supervising the Scout volunteers. It's given me a good insight into the various programs around.

I misread the 6 months since completing 4th grade, so it would be December. The den is sort of being run as a patrol. There's only 3 active and 1 part-timer in the den. Since the parents of the 3 active kids are the DL, CC, CM, Treasurer, and Secretary, there's not much effort required in keeping the parents back. I'd like them to work together more as a den, especially camping, but there's passive resistance from the DL in the form of phoning things in. We don't really have any other options to choose from, so we make do. I wish we could get a den chief. The troop and pack for our CO operate completely separately. I couldn't tell you the name of the Scoutmaster.

Our current Webelos den will all be 10 by the end of July. All are 4th graders now. Technically, they could work through the summer, finish AOL up and move up to a troop in August. What's your experience been with brand new 5th graders in a troop? My own experience wasn't good, resulting in me leaving Scouts for a couple of years. I want my kids to have a good time, which means there will be more criteria involved than just location. The boys were bored at the Spookoree last weekend, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at this avenue.

Whoops, I meant the Ranger. Corkscrews are a part of Swiss Army knives - everyone of them of value had one in the 90s. It can be used to carry things, not just opening wine, BTW. https://www.victorinox.com/us/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Medium-Pocket-Knives/Ranger/p/1.3763

I differentiate multi-tool from Swiss Army knife. The tools you posted look to be too cheap to be effective. Since we are talking about a troop, I'm assuming they are a bit more responsible than Cubbies. The multi-tool I use is either a Gerber or a Leatherman. Neither are cheap now. Our troop favorite in the early 90s was the Leatherman. For a Swiss Army knife, I prefer one the Hunter. I personally like the scissors - I used them to cut my nails for a decade because I kept losing the nail clippers or just didn't have them. Mine has been with me from my days of stalking Gilwell through my days of stalking Mosul, to today. When my kids reach high school, I'll probably get them one. I don't think that a combination knife, hammer, hatchet, etc is a good idea. The hollow handled is probably prone to breakage and disappointment.

Bobcat takes like 5 minutes if the Scout has studied at home. One of the things our council usually has as part of the fall Spookoree is a "Bobcat Trail". The kids needing Bobcat go to it and get the requirements completed. I haven't seen how they do it, but I bet that a little walking through the woods with various stations set up would work well. Stick an index card with a requirement on it in a tree or under a rock for the kids to find. I'd have the parents do the Protect your chidren from child abuse at home.

In the case of Cub Scouts, an adult will always be present with them. However, that adult is unlikely to be YP trained, and in our case, Safe Environment trained. If the BSA and the Catholic church both feel that these are critical classes for adults to be around youth, then it seems to me that leaving kids with untrained adults who may not be their parents is outside of the intentions of the policy. I would have a tough time explaining to a parent or council how a child under my responsibility became a victim because "I was present on the property". Older Scouts can defend themselves, or at least be trained to do so. Cubbies tend to be far less aware of these things and less likely to say something.

No. Two deep leadership is two deep leadership, right? So if we only have two leaders present for the activity, then we can't send one off to work a station. We already have violated the female rule. My daughter (Tiger) went camping last year with no female leaders present. Just me and the CM and a couple other families. Since she is always with me, I'm not super concerned, and I'm sure other packs have the same issue. I know troops do.

Sadly, I see two violations of the US Guide to Safe Scouting on the Swedish page. Maybe if we didn't have a society angling to become rich off court cases, we'd have kids lining up to have fun.

I understand the idea behind it - keep things cheaper, but for the Cubs, it is incompatible with G2SS and YP. When our Pack goes camping, we have 2, maybe 3, registered leaders. So if one of us goes and runs a station for an hour, the rest of the Pack has to sit at the station in order to comply. We can't send parents of anyone who is below a Wolf. Most of our parents lack initiative, otherwise, they'd be wearing a uniform. Sending them to run a station would result in chaos.

This is my concern too, especially the loss of Scout Shops. While no merger was involved, our local shop (a national one) was closed. Now we have to drive an hour to get patches and advancement, or pay to have them shipped. Getting parents to uniform their kids is a challenge since they now have to drive so far to get them. Large councils with satellite offices and shops would work and be reasonably cheap.

We've never had a den bigger than 7. My son's den had 2 Scouts as a Tiger and a Lion straphanger. The next year, we added one core and three sometimers. Got up to 7 as Bears for about 3 months. That's our biggest den. My kids will always have a den leader. The pack will survive until at least my son moves to a troop. We'll reassess then. At our leader meeting - open to everyone - on Saturday, we decided that I would be the Wolf DL. Meetings will be on Saturdays at my house. My wife is a registered Scouter, so we meet YP requirements. We have two parents who have attended the meeting in the past, but neither ever responded to calls for leadership. I flat out asked them if they would do it. Explained that it's actually pretty simple with the Den Leader Experience. It lays out everything - you just have to read ahead a bit and gather materials or task a parent to bring something. A quick side vote with the committee and we agreed to pay their fees - normally we ask that the first year be paid by the volunteer, but that was under the pro-rated system. They agreed, so hopefully we'll have applications tomorrow night.

I don't know that voluntelling people will work. I've tried telling them that the den will cease to exist if no one steps up to run it. It's a Tiger den - both kids have to have their parents present anyway. Not sure why it's such a problem for them. I guess we can just do independent study and each parent can input the advancement as it is completed. Not ideal, but if it accomplishes the mission, ok. At this point, I'm tired of pulling the pack along with me. My son is friends with his den, so we'll stay until he's finished with AOL. My daughter's den is hit and miss. I'm at the point where I will have no issues with dropping this pack and moving to one that is closer. We came here because we go to church at the CO. The CO isn't very supportive anyway. Lots of un-needed frustration for me. We definitely won't be joining the troop here.

We meet on the same night for YPT and convenience reasons already. How do you assign someone to be a DL? There is money, training, and an application involved.

Our pack has an age old issue, but I've never seen it this bad. Last year's Lion Den has two members. We told the parents that someone will need to be the DL next year. Well, next year is here and neither is stepping up. Last year's Wolf den lost its leader in February. He had finished up all the requirements. The parents have had 8 months to determine who the next leader will be and none have stepped forward. Last year's Tiger den has three members. One of the Scouts has a dad as the CC and mom as the treasurer, The other two sets of parents will not step up, so the CC will be running meetings on Saturdays at home because he's 600 miles away during the week. At least that den is covered. What do we do about the other two dens? I reminded the parents in July and got no response. At this point, the leadership is pretty much done with this unit. The Webelos DL has two years left. As does the CM and secretary, unless their youngest can start behaving. CC and treasurer have a few more years, and the ACM has a Lion coming onboard.