Armymutt

Our pack established a budget in June. Some leaders failed to attend, but the proposed budget was sent out weeks before the meeting and feedback was solicited. None was received. The budget is used to determine the dues every Scout pays outside of the national and council fees. It buys required advancement, rank patches, pinewood derby cars, and covers decorations, refreshments, and any venue fees we plan to incur. At our leaders meeting yesterday, the AOL DL drops on us that the pack should buy the AOLs plaques for cross over at a cost of $45 plus tax and shipping each. The total AOL crossover budget is $35 to cover decorations. The bylaws specifically state that the pack only buys the required advancement items for Scouts, but that Scouts may use credit from fundraising to buy additional items related to Scouting. Obviously, I disagreed with this purchase, especially since 2/3 of the Scouts did no fundraising this popcorn season. Ironically, one of the parents of an AOL was very vocal in disapproving my recommendation that each Scout sell $1000 worth of popcorn in order to fund their Scouting year. The same parent, also a leader, told us that $35 was too little to budget for the AOL crossover and that he wasn't at the budget meeting. The implication was that it was done in secret. This is our first AOL crossover since 2021 and my first as a leader in the pack - I was a new ACM last time and the AOL den planned and executed the last one. We have a very mixed pack when it comes to financial capability, so my goal is to minimize cost of participation and maximize fundraising opportunities. I have a really hard time looking at a parent who has to swallow their pride and fill out financial hardship paperwork to waive national and council fees, and tell them that the dues we must charge is for the bare minimum to have a good program while we are padding the dues to purchase gifts. The argument for buying the plaques is that their eldest son received one when he crossed over. At the time, I had very little history in the pack with no involvement in the finances. When I took over as Cubmaster and persuaded (cajoled) my wife into being the committee chair, the pack had a negative balance, all advancement and pinewood derby cars were purchased by me, the district donated $450 toward recharter and the leader who wants to buy these plaques had to put in $300 of his own money. There was zero transparency in the pack finances. No one could produce a spreadsheet indicating how the money was spent. The pack sold $19k in popcorn in 2019. We sold about that much in 2021 and 2022 combined. As it stands, the pack is financially solvent, but it does not have much more than $1000 in surplus funds from abandoned accounts due to Scout departures and donations at the popcorn sales booths. The bank account cannot fall below $500 or we lose it. That $500 is not much of a cushion if we need to upgrade our Square readers, buy shade tents or tables for popcorn sales, or cover popcorn losses. Personally, I think that the AOL den should pay for their own plaques if that is what they want to do. It goes against my integrity as a Scout to lie to parents and tell them that the plaques are essential. Barring that, I'm open to assessing an additional dues fee to all Scouts who were present during popcorn sales to fund these plaques. They all had the opportunity to raise funds, versus the kids who just joined. That will increase the spring dues from $45 to $60. This is on top of the $156 that they just paid for recharter. Makes for a pretty hefty bill right after Christmas just to buy gifts. Even an Eagle Scout presentation box only costs $35 and my troop didn't cover that.

If no AI references, then it can't really be called the Order of the Arrow, can it? I don't know of any other group in American history that is associated with the use of arrows. I think the order has lost its way due to the influence of adults rather than the desire of the youth. It used to be something to aspire to. It was an exclusive club of sorts that only the best were elected to. Now, it's become just another thing between 1st Class and Star.

I was thinking about this today and why I received that award. I recall a dad and fellow Scouter outside of the OA being surprised that I was so active in the OA despite my oldest being a Bear. I suppose I do it partially out of enjoyment, a sense of duty, and, most importantly for me, so that my kids have it when they are old enough. More so, I hope to inspire the kids of today to ensure it is there for their kids. This is why I champion the ceremonies.

I'm geographically separated from my family and my Pack for work. I'm home for a couple of weeks and got to attend our Pack Meeting tonight. I asked the COR to come so we can go over rechartering. She's also the Chapter Advisor for our OA chapter. I noticed she was wearing her sash which struck me as odd, but I figured she must have either come from some function I wasn't tracking. She got up in front of the Pack - I figured she was going to make some announcement about recharter or some other COR business. She then called me up and told everyone how much of a role I had played in the chapter as an adult leader this year and that I was being awarded the Adult Leader of the Year award for the chapter. I was completely shocked. The plaque lists several names of leaders who I have heard lots about, yet never met. I still haven't quite recovered. Very honored to be recognized.

I'm not sure that Scouting would quite rise to the level of a vital issue confronting the Church and society. The closest is the Committee on Protection of Children and Young People. Seems like the best way to do that is to charter the unit and select leaders that you can control.

Reading a bit more into the thought process, there is the notion that if it is a charter agreement, the church has greater control over who the leaders are and the ideology of what is taught to the youth. There are some units out there who use Scouting to advance social ideologies that have nothing to do with Scouting and run contrary to church teachings. Chartering a unit ensures more control over the adults. A facilities use agreement gives zero control. Being sued is not the only thing the church is worried about. The safety of the kids in paramount. The church would have no say in the adult leadership, nor would they be required to attend the Safe Environment Training. SET makes YPT look like a joke. Better to have control or not have such an entity around.

One key difference is that there is no national Catholic authority. Each diocese can determine how they will proceed. Ours is continuing with business as usual.

Seems that the word "consecutive" would disqualify counting the canoe trip as non-long term camping. Unless they spent a night in a hard structure then you might be able to count three days on either side.

My other lodge appears to have done away with regalia. I think it's just laziness as no one seems to have reached out to a local tribe. I need to get active in it and find out what the deal is. Rumor is that the chapter advisor isn't really into it, but got pushed into the job.

Sounds like our lodge. We had to cobble together an ordeal team for 150 candidates. The lodge doesn't emphasize ceremonies. Instead, it's all about parties during the large gatherings. Who wants to be a ceremonialist when it means missing out on all the fun? I tried for almost 2 years to get a team in my chapter, but as the older ones aged out, no one behind them made a serious effort to fill the ranks.

I'm not sure what types of military people you guys are dealing with. Our district volunteers are probably close to 70% military - either active or retired - and runs really well. Granted, these are field grade officers and senior NCOs, so we are used to working in collaborative environments rather than coercive. The whole thing hinges on the notion that one signed up to serve an organization and sometimes that service is in the form of something uncomfortable or undesirable. Most of us are used to being handled those situations without the ability to walk away. It becomes second nature to focus on the mission and just do what is needed to accomplish it. Granted, this is also in a community that is typically a bit more...um, "more"...than your average military member.

I think the post implies that he keeps "a" hand in his pocket - probably the left one. Sets a bad example, but not quite as bad as I believe you are envisioning. I had to reread it the first time.

While definitely a worthy goal, it was also really short-sited. BP was already wealthy. Look at how difficult it is to get someone to volunteer to be a den leader. Do you think anyone has the volunteer time available to do the job needed at the SE level? My issue with SE pay is when the program and facilities don't match it. For example, I've seen one council where the SE makes about $200k. The council camp reservation is top notch. It is well suited for Cub Scouts and older programs. Half the reservation has sites that you can drive up to, unload gear, and camp in comfort. There are buildings with 4 flush toilets and four showers with sinks on both ends. Each site has two picnic shelters with tables maintained by the OA with electricity. There is another part of the reservation that is far more spartan with very little in the way of facilities. Another council I visited has an SE making a bit over $400k. The reservation is embarrassing. The dedicated Cub Scout area has several crowded camp sites with one filthy shack that has a couple of toilets and a sink with barely any water flow. There is no ability to drive up to the camp sites, so parents have to lug all the giant tents and cooking gear 150 yards down a hill to get to where they are going. The sites are on top of each other light an urban neighborhood. There is one nice building with a few showers and 4 toilets for the whole camp. I don't think that the SE is earning their pay in that council.

Slightly off topic, but if you are going to be the SM in less than 2 months and the SM is going to be gone for all of the meetings between then and now, why not do an immediate leadership change? There's 7 weeks between now and the end of the year.

@MikeS72 Yep, that's the one. Thanks! I had a great time. Good group of people in Middle Tennessee. Seems to have less attitude, for lack of a better word, than other councils I've been in.

Yet for some reason we need a virtue signaling merit badge for it. Every other citizenship MB deals with some governmental structure and the Scout's position in it. This one is essentially application of the Oath and Law. You could do the same thing with Scoutmaster Minutes.

I don't think it subverts the MB any more than almost every single MB "camp" "day" etc does for other MBs. Why is this one so sacred? It's the only merit badge that can't be taught to a large group and it has additional requirements to be an MBC, like it's some sort of especially technical or dangerous topic. I think the other three citizenship MBs are far more important than this one.

The requirement says, "With your parent’s or guardian’s approval, connect with another Scout or youth your own age who has an identity that’s different from yours. (This means a trait, belief, or characteristic different from you.) A trait can be something simple as hair color. Surely the Scout has a sibling or friend who has a different color of hair than he/shoe does. Perhaps framing the situation like that will gain the parents' permission. This approach can effectively nullify any intentions from the MB developer that the parents might have objections to. I don't know of too many parents who would object to their children talking to each other.

Had an early start on Saturday morning. The camp is a bit over an hour away and I wanted to have a good breakfast before the start of the fun. I got up at 4:30, having not slept well the night before. After the flag raising, a round of "Back to Gillwell", ceremonial change of duties, and some announcements, we loaded up our pack and started the walk to the overnight area. Had a good day of classes and games - the day flew by. Our patrol elected to make individual meals - I had MREs left over from work. We wanted to simplify cooking and cleanup, not knowing exactly what the timeline would be. The troop put on an evening campfire, which was enjoyable. We had a sort of potluck cracker barrel. Some were fancy with freshly made popcorn, while others brought "embossed chocolate cookies bracketing a creamy center" aka, Oreos. Our patrol did a run to get vehicles for the morning exodus and retired to our campsite. We did a little more bonding over various issues that we universally have in our units and headed to our tents. It was then that I discovered that Tennessee has little thorn bushes hiding in the grassy parts in the woods. I forgot my ground sheet, having lent it to a family last year and not repacking it in that particular tent. It's a 34 year old tent that needs retaping and resealing, so I wasn't too concerned about seeing a needle come through the floor. Just glad there wasn't one under my new air mattress. It was rather warm last night, so I didn't sleep well again - extra humidity as well. At the appointed hour, we woke up, packed quickly, heated up water for breakfast for some, ate random snacks for others, and departed for the main area. Today was a couple of classes, reviewing and reflecting on the material. We then ate a great lunch - you won't lose weight at Wood Badge. Afterwards, a few more talks and closing ceremonies. Met a couple more people in my district, which was cool. Now it's time to start working on my ticket items. But first, some rest.

Working on those ranks within their patrols is completely different from working on them with younger Scouts. In fact, that's desirable. The more senior Scouts get a good refresher on those basic skills. That reinforcement strengthens their grasp of the concepts and helps with retention for life. Makes better Eagle Scouts!

For adult help, it's going to be like that. We're a military community and get excuses all the time. Even when I pointed out that I am also military and yet still find a way to be the Cubmaster, and now CC from 600 miles away, people still balked. I think part of the solution is explaining that if everyone pitches in in some way, then the work load is spread out, there are back ups in place, and the program doesn't drop if someone can't make it. If you think BSA is going to spend money showing you less than the ideal conditions, take a look at the photos on a McDonald's menu. Ideally, sure, you'd have parents who actually care about their kids and want to spend time with them. The lack of facilities is frustrating. We're lucky enough to have a building to borrow. Previously though, the Pack meetings were held in public places as a sort of recruiting tool. I wasn't part of the pack then, but it sounds like an interesting idea, if a safe environment can be located. If anything, I've found councils to be hit and miss. Not going to say anything further. Cost - that's a toughy. We've advised our parents to not buy the books each year. Your pack can save them a bit more money by having a Pack neckerchief that would see them through the entire program, rather than buying a new one every year. Our council lets us use the council camp for free weekend trips. That saves us a lot of money. If the costs to operate the program are too much, I would consider revising it. Our dues cover the six required loops/pins, rank badge, PWD car, a small bit for decorations for the PWD and B&G, the unit charter fee, and the adult leader fees. We do potluck for the B&G and Christmas party. We don't control the national and council fees, but the council fees could be reduced if more people participate in the fundraising. I realize that we used to wear the blue uniform from Wolf to AOL, but I think the idea is that there is a transition to Scouts BSA after AOL and the new uniform supports that goal. Wroks out well if your kid gets a growth spurt in 4th grade. My Bear is starting to look like Erkle in the pants, but he's skinny, so the blue shirt still fits. The program from the 80s was probably cheaper with the beads and arrowheads, but BSA changed it for some reason. Age-range. You misunderstand the difference between Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA. Scouts BSA is the program for older youth, formerly known as Boy Scouts. That is a youth lead, adult guided program. Cub Scouts is adult lead and guided. I would not expect a Webelos Scout to be capable of executing the Wolf program anymore than I'd expect a 12 y/o Tenderfoot to serve as the leader in a troop. The goal is progressive learning and reinforcement of concepts. There's little in the first 3 years of school that a 4th grader couldn't pick up in a couple of months, but we don't use that approach. I think that it takes time to develop skills in working with peers and the benefit of that repetition is demonstrated well. I think your math if off. I don't see a single requirement that has to be done indoors and I see a lot that have to be done outdoors. If you are doing advancement mostly indoors, you have a leader problem. Put together a support packet that gives the DLs ideas for completing requirements outdoors. As far as duty to God, I don't know what to tell you. People who believe that they are the supreme being probably are incompatible with Scouting. Baden Powell wrote very much on the topic. "A Scout is reverent" has a completely different mean from "A Scout goes to church". Not every organization has to abandon its principles to make everyone comfortable. Perhaps those who currently see themselves as supreme will come to understand the philosophy of Baden Powell and the fundamentals of the movement.

How do the dens meet? Our Pack holds den meetings in full view of everyone else. We always have 2 registered females present. They may not be sitting in the actual den meeting spot, but they have an intervisibility line between themselves and the dens at all times. With our new Lion/Tiger DL, we don't really need to worry about it now. Our female Scouts are AOL (female DL) and Tiger/Lions. Last year, our Lion Den had a male leader - me. The only female was my daughter.

I think Lion parents fall into two categories and this can cause some stress. The first group is the single or first child in Scouting. This group can probably do with one meeting or outing a month, especially if the kid is getting plenty of socialization in school or the neighborhood. The second group is the family with older youth in Scouting and the Lion is next in line. They are already attending weekly meetings, so not having a Lion meeting is more of a stressor. For me, I love Scouting, so it's a refresher rather than a stressor, for the most part. I think the Lion program provides a good intro into activities away from home and it gives the little ones a sense of belonging, especially to people they don't see everyday.

Why would they be learning the skills with younger Scouts? That sounds like a new scout patrol. My troop had two patrols, mostly because we had two lines of tables in the chapel hall. As new Scouts came into the troop they could pick which side of the room to sit on, and that was their patrol. We had everything from Life Scouts to new Scouts in the same patrol. It was the job of the older Scouts to teach the younger ones in the patrol. We operated similarly to the description in the 5th edition of the Scoutmasters Handbook, though with less formality, as it was the early 90s. The PLs evaluated the skills of their patrol and focused on ensuring everyone was up-to-snuff.

I entered Wood Badge mostly out of curiosity. I've read lots of posts on here and most caused me some concern. I'm not an outgoing person when it comes to singing and being silly. I can perform a decent skit, but that's about the limit. I get turned off rapidly by preaching and inspirational slogans. Without going into a full recap, I can say that it is worthwhile training whether you have had hours of training in leadership techniques, group dynamics, etc, or have zero experience. I just finished an MPH with a concentration in leadership, and this was still useful. One of the biggest benefits was being able to talk to people well outside my district about problems in my unit and bouncing ideas off each other. I'm looking forward to weekend two. My only major criticism is the state of the camp. For a council with so much money and an SE making $500k a year, the place is a dump. The tent platforms are worn and falling apart. The campsites are crowded. There are inadequate toilet and shower facilities. I want to take pictures of my home council's camp and show the people in the course. Maybe they will demand more money going into the program and less into executive pockets. One can dream, right?