Armymutt

I can't even get a response when asking about planning the PWD. Parents just sit. It's getting more and more frustrating every week. The WDL won't publish a schedule or even give the parents an idea of how he plans to complete the program given the concerns I have raised with him. I would love to plan some really cool activities, but I'm afraid no one will show up and those that do will just stand around expecting to be entertained.

Tonight was our November pack meeting. None of the DLs showed up. I think we have 14 active Scouts and 6 were in attendance. One DL didn't bother to communicate that he wasn't coming. I'm getting tired of being one of the only ones who cares. We have a Webelos parent who didn't bother coming inside to even pay for her son's renewal, let alone be present for him to receive his advancement. Our next meeting will be the pack meeting in December because our CO won't let us meet there for the next two weeks. I'm tired of the apathy from parents and leaders alike. I'm even more tired of having to fight people to improve the program. We drive an extra 5 miles because this pack is at our church, despite the church treating us as just some outside organization using their buildings. We have a Webelos/Scouts BSA campout this weekend. It's being championed by a pack closer to us. I like the CM and it seems like the parents are actually interested in being involved. I think this will serve as a sort of interview for that pack. The problem is, if my family leaves, our current pack will collapse in short order. I'm the CC. My wife is the treasurer. The CM lacks initiative and communication skills. The secretary is just holding a title. The ACM rarely shows up and is also the Lion DL. It's very frustrating trying to run things from 600 miles away and not getting at least a little effort on the part of everyone else in keeping this train on the tracks. I'm the one traveling an hour away to the Scout Shop to buy advancement on the Saturdays that I'm home. I've put a lot of effort into this pack and I've been reluctant to watch it fail. However, I'm growing tired of having to adult for Millennials.

Except that the program is already essentially that way. We had a campout and knocked out requirements for every den, whether it involved knot tying, out door code, leave no trace, hiking, etc. The program already had that feature. I'm not sure what's fabulous about making AOLs now spend a lot more time finishing up. There's no way a den can complete 8 adventures in 6 months with a quality program.

I like the footprint for BA tents with the fast fly capability. Lets me set up the fly in a rain storm and build the tent underneath it. That way I get less water intrusion through the mesh walls. They also are lighter than plastic and fold better.

I'm liking the idea of the Eureka tents. I've found the tents for $138 and vestibules for $50. I typically lean toward Big Agnes, but I also remember that young Scouts aren't the most careful of kids. My only concern is that Eureka doesn't seem to make a footprint for those tents. Their 2 person foot print is shorter and narrower than the floor dimensions of the Timberline 2. Guess the kids will have to do what their dad did and use a plastic sheet and tarp.

As we prepare our Webelos to move on down the line, I'm looking at tents. I still have my trusty L.L. Bean Geodesic tent from the late 80s. I believe it is technically a 3-person tent, but being in England, we kept our packs/bags inside with us, so it was a 2-person. What are Scouts using these days? I saw what looked more like single tents at the campsite we visited a couple week ago. I was thinking of getting him a 3-person.

BSA provides you a ton of literature on how to execute the plan. Volunteers are the people and fundraisers provide the money, not that you need much. I guess you ignore that whole A Scout is Trustworthy thing, right? Why bother even doing anything? Just click on the little boxes and go buy awards to hand out.

The full-year program fee transfers to Scouts BSA. They don't have to pay anything else to move up. If you are referring to the Pack dues, then that's a failure of Pack leadership to determine where the AOLs won't participate and reduce dues accordingly. Our last AOLs moved up after B&G and PWD, so they paid the same as everyone else. The next group may transition before those events, so their dues will be reduced accordingly.

Wait, seriously? You regard standards as "just words on a page"? What are you teaching the kids with that attitude? Why bother? Would you accept any professional regarding the laws or codes as "just words on a page"? Attitudes start as children. They see adults just handing out awards without regard for meeting standards and they will expect that to be the case all the time.

I think you're quibbling. Changes have been made to every badge/rank requirement over the past 40 years. I wouldn't say that my Second Class that required skill awards is different than the Second Class of today without them. Adding essentially a totin chip, a little more in-depth knowledge of Scouts BSA, and tie two more knots. Interestingly, Scouts no longer have to agree to live by the Oath, Law, motto, slogan, and outdoor code. I can't say that that is a positive change.

I don't know the SMs for all the troops I had. Each Scout volunteered and had to go through an interview process for Day Camp, so there was a barrier to entry. Not a significant one, but enough to dissuade some. Tasks were things like help the older Scouts keep water jugs full and help out the volunteers at stations. Not exactly hard things. Instead, I'd find them wandering off to hang out in a back room.

Does anyone have an idea of how this will work for kids already in the pipeline? It would be pretty crappy for a kid to be looking forward to earning AOL in August 2024 because he only has 2 adventures to do over the summer while waiting for the 6 months since turning 10 to arrive.

It's been around a lot longer than since 2015. I earned it in '86 and it was essentially the Boy Scout version of the Bobcat. A Scout can still join in 5th grade and earn the AOL in 6 months. That doesn't change. Instead, your DL will now have 6 months to complete 8 adventures. In some cases, even less time. We have a Scout who turned 10 at the beginning of 4th grade. He could earn the AOL and cross over in February 2024. The other two would need to wait until December 2024 since they don't turn 10 until July. That gives the DL realistically 3 months to accomplish all 8 adventures. You think that there won't be pressure to get those done fast, quality be damned? Troops want Scouts. Parents want to get to a program where they don't have to be involved. As far as progression, I think the program as shown above looks very consistent, but nowhere near as broad as the present program. Four out of the 6 required look like they are school-type things. The kids get bored being preached to all the time. That was the biggest complaint we got - they sat in school all day and then were expected to sit in school at Scouts. Not fun.

Yes. The Bobcat has been the first rank earn for most of the life of the program. It became a cloth badge in 1972. It's like saying, "We don't need the Scout badge anymore." What does the kid earn for knowing the basics of Cub Scouts? It's a big deal for a Cubbie to earn a badge after the first couple of meetings so that they have something on their shirt. It showed that they belonged to the Pack and actually achieved something significant. In the old days, it was pinned on upside down until the Scout did a good turn. Now they will be a blank shirt for a year. For the boys whose parents can only afford a shirt, the belt loops are useless. Same for the girls who wear their shirts untucked or with the leggings. Frankly, most 5 y/o's don't memorize the Scout Oath, Scout Law, CS motto, etc very well. Having them try to pronounce, much less memorize these things is going to be very difficult.

Do you see a Bobcat rank on that chart? The Bobcat rank is eliminated. It becomes nothing more than an Adventure.

I'm sure there will be different requirements, but why eliminate the joining badge? I'm curious how one set of requirements is ineffective. What does that mean? The kids learn the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Cub Scout Motto, CS sign, CS handshake, CS salute, and do the YP requirement. How was this so difficult to do? These excuses for its elimination are so vague. Now we have 8 required adventures to earn a rank rather than the previous 7. That drives up the cost of the program. Lion goes from being $13.87 a Scout to $20.28 with taxes here in NC. The idea that there were inconsistent numbers of adventures for each rank is a lie. Lions, Webelos, and AOL were outliers, sure. However, the number of requirements for many of the latter are greater for each adventure than the others. The other three each have 7 Adventures required. I'm also curious how we are meant to get through 3 additional AOL adventures by February without decreasing the quality of the program. Hopefully we can continue to keep the kids who are on the current program working on the current program until they AOL out.

I don't like the removal of Bobcat as a rank. What's the point of repeatedly earning Bobcat every year? We already have the Protect Yourself Rules one that everyone earns but we don't purchase. The Bobcat currently serves the same purpose as the Scout rank. It ensures each Cub Scout has a baseline of the Cub Program. Where is that going to fit in now? Are we going to just leave those in the wind? Rank badges are a more tangible thing that the kids can sew on their uniform vs belt loops that require an additional uniform item be purchased. Rank patches are far more visible than belt loops, especially for the girls who usually wear their shirts untucked. Parents also like to pin their own Bobcat badge on their child as a way of shared experiences. The child likes wearing Daddy's badge, at least for the night.

I mean that the Scouts act more like Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts. I supervised a group of Scouts from across the district at our Cub Scout day camp. The ones from our CO needed far more supervision. They lacked motivation to get their tasks done without me having to check up on them. I don't know what the average age of the troop is right now. They have no interaction with us. The SPL appears to be a high schooler - probably same age as the SPLs I had as a kid.

I'm about 90% certain that we won't be moving to the troop at the current CO. They don't have a girl troop yet, which will become a factor a couple years after my son moves up. I've seen their SPL and am not impressed. Severe lack of discipline in that troop. The COR is about the public face of the troop. I've spent three years rowing against the tide to keep the Pack afloat and am tired of fighting to make things run right. I'm looking at a troop that is about 5 minutes closer to our house. They utilize the patrol method. It also has most of the Scouters in the district who are active on our side of town. They have a few downsides, such as meeting in a pavilion that is hot in the summer and cold in the winter. They also don't do fundraising when I last checked. It's a huge troop, which can be a bit unwieldy. My exposure to the troops is via the OA and being the SM for Cub Scout day camp, supervising the Scout volunteers. It's given me a good insight into the various programs around.

I misread the 6 months since completing 4th grade, so it would be December. The den is sort of being run as a patrol. There's only 3 active and 1 part-timer in the den. Since the parents of the 3 active kids are the DL, CC, CM, Treasurer, and Secretary, there's not much effort required in keeping the parents back. I'd like them to work together more as a den, especially camping, but there's passive resistance from the DL in the form of phoning things in. We don't really have any other options to choose from, so we make do. I wish we could get a den chief. The troop and pack for our CO operate completely separately. I couldn't tell you the name of the Scoutmaster.

Our current Webelos den will all be 10 by the end of July. All are 4th graders now. Technically, they could work through the summer, finish AOL up and move up to a troop in August. What's your experience been with brand new 5th graders in a troop? My own experience wasn't good, resulting in me leaving Scouts for a couple of years. I want my kids to have a good time, which means there will be more criteria involved than just location. The boys were bored at the Spookoree last weekend, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at this avenue.

Whoops, I meant the Ranger. Corkscrews are a part of Swiss Army knives - everyone of them of value had one in the 90s. It can be used to carry things, not just opening wine, BTW. https://www.victorinox.com/us/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Medium-Pocket-Knives/Ranger/p/1.3763

I differentiate multi-tool from Swiss Army knife. The tools you posted look to be too cheap to be effective. Since we are talking about a troop, I'm assuming they are a bit more responsible than Cubbies. The multi-tool I use is either a Gerber or a Leatherman. Neither are cheap now. Our troop favorite in the early 90s was the Leatherman. For a Swiss Army knife, I prefer one the Hunter. I personally like the scissors - I used them to cut my nails for a decade because I kept losing the nail clippers or just didn't have them. Mine has been with me from my days of stalking Gilwell through my days of stalking Mosul, to today. When my kids reach high school, I'll probably get them one. I don't think that a combination knife, hammer, hatchet, etc is a good idea. The hollow handled is probably prone to breakage and disappointment.

Bobcat takes like 5 minutes if the Scout has studied at home. One of the things our council usually has as part of the fall Spookoree is a "Bobcat Trail". The kids needing Bobcat go to it and get the requirements completed. I haven't seen how they do it, but I bet that a little walking through the woods with various stations set up would work well. Stick an index card with a requirement on it in a tree or under a rock for the kids to find. I'd have the parents do the Protect your chidren from child abuse at home.