InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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33 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Do Councils have to show Proof of Insurance at Re-Charter? Is it documented on their recharter forms?
Don't groups (like councils), by law, have to have insurance to conduct activities?
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8 minutes ago, gpurlee said:
Yea, you might be able to get coverage in the future for a local group. The cost, high deductible and the limited coverage may give pause to whether the leaders want to place their homes and other personal assets at risk.
I'll check with a buddy who helps with the local youth soccer travel team... it seems, whenever I talk to him, that another kid on the squad has a concussion. Their accident and health insurance premiums must be high. But you don't really need accident and health... BSA is only a supplementary in that regard anyway, unless you are a military dependent. (Then they are primary.)
It's the liability you need. And, I'd bet, if you present good documentation and transparency that you are exercising due diligence, the liability premiums may be reduced. Again, I'd have to talk with the underwriter... This site says $29 to $47 per month, depending on some variables. So, at $5 per youth per annum, with 50 Scouts, we are paying $20.83 per month already, thru council/national.
Finally, your home and assets are always at risk with "gross negligence". Of course, there are elements of proof for that. A personal injury lawyer advised me an umbrella policy is always wise
http://www.fcomi.org/uploads/3/3/7/4/3374831/volunteer_protection_act.pdf
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19 hours ago, David CO said:
Best that they go out in patrols, deep into the woods, away from all civilizing influences, when they feel the need to act foolish.
And the Scouters that go with them ;)....
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8 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:
I bet it would be a lot easier to get insurance than one would think. Same group that insurers outward bound etc. Insurance for a single unit and specific adults, I assume is much simpler than a large random organization. Now they would drop you after your first incident, but you would be good up to that point.
Insurance, schminsurance... just kidding...
What @mrjohns2 said... companies will sell you insurance for just about anything. Now, the premiums for that insurance...that's the real question that I don't have the answer to.
Anyone out there know a ballpark figure for insuring a youth group for $1M in liability?? (that is the usual amount asked for on our COIs; occasionally we get an organization asking for $2M, but our council has always provided that COI with about 2 weeks notice.)
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54 minutes ago, gpurlee said:
I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news
But she just smiled and turned awayAmerican Pie
Don McLean
We seem to have quite the shortage of happy news at the present time. The bankruptcy is perhaps the most visible of the threats facing the BSA but I wonder if the impact of the pandemic may be the ultimate factor that leads to the demise of the organization.
In scanning our midwestern council’s most recent membership statistics, it appears that our total youth membership has plummeted almost 70% compared to the end of 2019! The Cub membership has been decimated with a loss of 80% of the total membership. Venturing is essentially gone. This will impact our FOS program, other fund-raising efforts, as well as activity and camp income. It will be very difficult to recover from losses at these levels. Many of our packs are for all intents simply gone even if they are still listed on paper. This is our feeder system for our troops. I fear that the welcome mat at schools may no longer be out for us. It will be a tough sale to recruit members as the BSA is bombarded with negative stories. A perfect storm of events threatens to envelop us.
How do you justify the operation of multiple camps when just two years ago they were under-utilized? How do you justify current staffing and support levels with a program a fraction of the size it once was?
How do you deal with over 350 claims of abuse even if half of them are not valid?
Scouting, when done correctly under the leadership of caring, committed adults, can be a life-changing program. I have seen it open a wealth of opportunities, provide unforgettable adventures and superb leadership development opportunities. It certainly has made a lifelong difference in the life of our family. I fear and mourn that my young grandsons may never have the opportunity for this experience.
And it saddens me that there seems to be no happy news.
There is happy news...it's over a hundred years old.
There was a time when there were no "Scouts." And the movement started with idea from an old crusty British Army guy.
No need to worry...kids want Scouting, and it will happen. Be there for them. Take them camping. You already know the like-minded people around you.
BSA is not the be-all-end-all of Scouting. Just the current major market-share provider. If they go away, be a grass roots startup. You will have a blast.
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32 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:
I was asking my Webelos aged son yesterday what games they play in PE at school so I would have some Den Meeting ideas. He asked me if they could play Dodgeball. Of course I had to explain that it wasn't allowed in Scouts even if they can do it at school. He then proceeded to ask if "Scouts" want them to have fun or just take our money.
And your answer was?? 😜
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22 minutes ago, scoutldr said:
Following a few of the other Scouting pages on FB, there are MANY Scouts BSA units flagrantly violating the Co-ed policy. Units separate on paper only, and they are adamant about it..."this is what works best for us, so bugger off." Meeting together, camping together, same PLC, same Committee. Reminds me of the early days of YP...units ignoring it because "that just doesn't work for us." If this is so important in terms of safety, liability and optics, why do the Councils permit it? And don't tell me they don't know about it. THey will still look the other way if it means retaining members and units. That's how we got in this mess.
And, btw, this whole "separate but equal" thing was a pipe dream from the start. We had thorough discussions about this in our unit when we looked at creating a girl troop. We all knew it would come to that...
Separate on paper, combined in reality...
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19 minutes ago, scoutldr said:
Following a few of the other Scouting pages on FB, there are MANY Scouts BSA units flagrantly violating the Co-ed policy. Units separate on paper only, and they are adamant about it..."this is what works best for us, so bugger off." Meeting together, camping together, same PLC, same Committee. Reminds me of the early days of YP...units ignoring it because "that just doesn't work for us." If this is so important in terms of safety, liability and optics, why do the Councils permit it? And don't tell me they don't know about it. THey will still look the other way if it means retaining members and units. That's how we got in this mess.
This is the dirty little secret for most councils...turn a blind eye until something happens. And, even though our Scouter Code of Conduct says "I will take steps to prevent or report any violation of this code of conduct by others in connection with Scouting activities.", if you do (even anonymously), you are outed, ostracized, marginalized, labeled, shunned, etc....
We are not a self-policing group, even if touted as such.
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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:
Why is this youth protection? They are mixing up "integrity of program" with "youth protection". So if a Scoutmaster brings his Scouts BSA daughter to a Boy Scouts BSA Troop meeting, then that is a YPT violation?
OA election ... so how does a girl Troop hold an OA election if there is no girl youth in OA? A boy cannot go to their meeting? So no youth OA can be present at a Girl Troop meeting election until there is a girl in OA and then she will be the only one allowed at future Girl Troop elections?
No coed buddies .. fine, file that under YPT. The other half of this is crazy to put under YPT.
Ready! Fire! Aim!!!
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6 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:
Updated Youth Protection FAQs on 03/11
NOTE:
♦ Q. Are there times when youth can gather, meet or conduct activities without adult supervision?
A. No. Two-deep adult supervision by registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required for all Scouting activities and must meet the leadership requirements outlined in Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse. This includes patrol activities.
At least this one makes some sense:
♦ Q. Can I share a tent with my son or daughter who has special needs?
A. Youth and adults tent separately in the Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing programs. Youth who have a special need or disability who may require a parent or legal guardian to tent with them must develop a plan in conjunction with their local council Scout Executive to address their specific needs.
This one does not:
Q. Can a leader bring their Scouts BSA son or daughter to an opposite gender troop activity?
A. No. Scouts BSA program integrity requires single gender units and single gender buddy pairs.
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On 3/13/2021 at 4:25 PM, GiraffeCamp said:
A person's heinous acts does not mean they didn't also perform kindnesses. And a person performing kindnesses does not mean we can trust that person with opportunities to hurt and abuse, especially the vulnerable, especially if the person has a history of such behavior. Kindnesses do not negate hideous abuse.
We were discussing just yesterday the adults in our lives who took us under their wings as children and of how their innocent behaviors would never fly today. A neighbor of mine basically functioned like an aunt and I went on random shopping trips and such all the time.
The difficulty is in having the broadest healthy social circle while keeping it safe for all. Grooming absolutely happens. How do we on the outside tell the difference between that and healthy neighbors BEFORE abuse occurs so we can include one and protect from the other? I understand this thread to be navigating that tightrope, which is a healthy discussion.
And that is exactly why abusers use this strategy to gain the confidence of their victims and the public. They do great acts of kindness and seem to be genuinely concerned for the well-being of youth. Wolves in sheep's clothing.
Unfortunately, the ones who are truly kind and genuinely care can get lumped in with the abusers as "groomers." I have seen this, and have had to defend several people's reputations.
The behavior of mis-identification is also greatly discouraging some adults from getting involved.
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55 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Let me be blunt:
There's a reason I post anonymously. I have sons in the Scouts, BSA program. They'd like to make Eagle and I'd like to see that happen.
I am not about to give National, or my Council a SINGLE reason to threaten their advancement because their dad stuck his head up and spoke out about something.
I believe BSA's likely dead. But in the off chance it isn't, I am NOT going to see them come after me or my kids for speaking up. The risk is too great.
Dear daughter and dear son both just earned Eagle...there is a bit of a weight lifted off the shoulders
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
There is always the risk of personal backlash, I guess, but is it worth it to lead and possibly see change enacted?
Yes, they have shot this messenger on several occasions. I have too much scar tissue to engage again...happy to play in our little sandbox at the unit level...
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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:
This was something that I saw came up in the Office Hours video and in FB.
The only people who have been allowed access to even a DRAFT of these are
1) Scout Executives
2) Handpicked volunteers/yes men and women who are simply going to nod their heads up and down and do what National tells them
When people asked during the video (via Zoom chat I would guess) if they could be part of the review team or even see a copy, they were told no.
He said "high level volunteers"...guess I am a "low level volunteer"??? LOL
Just so you know your value to the people running things
Start at 19:55
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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:
Check again.
https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/scouts-bsa-office-hours-session-february-25-2021/
That pages leads to the video (mod policy is no direct link to videos, but the link is on that page).
You'll want to watch 19:00 to 22:00
File this under PR examples of ""How to Walk Back"
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14 minutes ago, ThenNow said:
Whew. Gained a foot. The ones we always built were sky-scraping dinosaurs, I suppose.
We build them higher than six feet, just don't have them climb higher than six without helmet, harness, and top rope belay IAW climbing rules.
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There was a Scouter accused of murder. Removed from Scouting. Exonerated. Not allowed back. Much more to the story, but BSA will not allow him back. He is Vigil Honor.
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3 minutes ago, MattR said:
Why not buy all the patches and pins now and keep chugging? Irrespective of what happens have the B&G and make it fun. The scouts don't care about all of this.
No one ever checked BSA's ScoutNet record to see if someone had his Arrow of Light, except for registrars validating Eagle Scout Applications to verify program eligibility.
Concur, buy the stuff, do the program, have a blast, celebrate the achievement, and give 'em the bling!
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On 3/12/2021 at 3:54 PM, walk in the woods said:
Just curious if those same parents refused to let their scouts participate in summer camp because ranges were open?
Yes, they did...and some of their Scouts took rifle and shotgun shooting and archery. Again...
On 3/11/2021 at 10:07 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:You cannot counter emotional responses with logic and facts, so I didn't bother.
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52 minutes ago, ThenNow said:
I have a standard WSJ script, but don't pay for Pro. Is there a posting of the piece elsewhere?
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14 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
It costs us about $4,000 per year between the Pack and Troop.
Yikes...one reason we left our last CO because room rental was costing our Troop around $700 a year.
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Just now, ThenNow said:
Were your respective Councils keeping you, in the field, updated about these numbers? I seen news reports of Councils blowing off talk of "legitimate abuse claims" against them, even while claims were being filed, logged and publicly noted on sites like AIS.
The last time I asked about this...about 6 months ago, our SE said we had one claim they were "concerned about".
They have well over a hundred in the list...
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2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
The only message ... this bankruptcy only effects national. It has no impact on the councils, units or COs. A bit of info trickled out that we may pay into a fund but no real serious discussion of impacts. Given that nearly every council said the same thing (you can see this in media feeds) I expect that was directed by National.
They may have been gaming this out, but they have not prepared us for any impact.
They are counting on the judge ruling the LCs as independent, but allowing them to "purchase" claims immunity coverage if they contribute to the bankruptcy-driven compensation fund?
I still don't see how they can make that argument/request seriously. Doesn't pass the common sense, sanity, nor the "headlines" tests...
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1 minute ago, ThenNow said:
Through the last two years, have you guys received any trickle down news or tactical planning from above? This whole operation, as illustrated by the non-plan Plan - little detail, no commitment from LC's, completely misreading or ignoring the other side's likely reaction -appears to lack any sophisticated risk management/tiered A, B, C contingency planning. Am I wrong? They have high powered big law with them so I don't get it. From a purely survival and business planning standpoint, it amazes me if they weren't "gaming this out" for a year or more.
Maybe they believe they are "too big to fail"?
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YP/Program Quality
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted · Edited by RememberSchiff
Here's something interesting to peruse...it's the YMCA insurance questionnaire the Great American Insurance Group uses to begin the underwriting process.
https://www.greatamericaninsurancegroup.com/docs/default-source/specialty-human-services/ymca-questionnaire.pdf?sfvrsn=c4f943b1_6
Take note under abuse/molestation coverage.... "Is your organization Praesidium Certified?"
Never heard of this with BSA...
https://website.praesidiuminc.com/wp/
Probably best posted under YP thread...sorry
moved here by RS