InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
When I stand back and look at the mosaic of this story as it plays out, I cast National in the role of the wealthy ruler trying to make an escape to establish its domain on the far shore. Arrogant, defiant and unwise, the ruler makes a fatal of error of judgement. He has loaded the ship with so much wealth that it sinks halfway across the channel. His subjects, left on the shore, must fend off the marauders at the gate with little by way of stores, few resources and no precious metals or gems with which to negotiate.
Except, in this case, the subjects (us), left to fend for themselves, go on happily scouting because there are no "marauders" after us. The marauders then launch maritime salvage operations and learn to deep sea dive (extended legal actions against local councils?)
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4 minutes ago, David CO said:
You'd think the SE would have read the red form, wouldn't ya?
LOL, my daughter's Crew did not recharter this year. They sent the form to my wife to fill out.
She asked me what to do. I said, "Are you a current registered member of the BSA?"
"No."
"Here, let me open the garbage can for you."
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1 minute ago, ThenNow said:
This is a question borne both out of curiosity and my interest in the health and safety of kids.
Are there "model" structures or relationships between the various entities that can be put forward as exemplars? I'm sure some of you have it dialed in to a science. This is how it's done in other context with great success. To borrow from the franchise discussion, this is why and how the good ones succeed wildly: strict adherence to replication. Even as I say that it dawns that as volunteer driven it lacks financial incentive, effectively downgrading the engine of the model. The V12 becomes a Volt. It was a thought. "Here is what works and this is how to do it, if you manage to pull it off."
Every unit has its own culture...
In the Air Force, every headquarters has a Standardization and Evaluation section. All flight crewmembers must take periodic "checkrides" to ensure adherence to flight and safety standards. No current checkride? You are grounded. When you take a checkride, there is a write up of your performance. If any areas are substandard, there is prescribed corrective action which must be followed.
I believe the Commissioner Corps was supposed to perform this sort of function. But, I have never seen any forcing function for units to comply with all of the BSA standards out there. It is totally up to the goodwill and integrity of the volunteers to ensure compliance. So, some units begin doing things that are outright forbidden; adults with alcohol on trips, fireworks, inappropriate adult supervision, hazing, ignoring safety standards for aquatics activities, etc.)
Basically, if something happens, then the adults get sued for negligence or something else. In most cases, I have heard of BSA offering settlements for cases. Anyone have real stories to share of adults being held to account?
Here's a case of a lightning death:
https://www.poconorecord.com/article/20060609/NEWS/606090357
And another lightning:
https://etvnews.com/rayborn-boy-scouts-reach-settlement-in-wrongful-death-suit/
And a fall (ongoing case??):
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39 minutes ago, David CO said:
Join the club. This is how BSA executives treat most of us volunteer scouters. This attitude is not reserved solely for those who have been sexually abused. Smug, insolent defiance sprinkled on top of contempt. Well said. Very well said.
Unfortunately, this is my experience as well...
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1 hour ago, GiraffeCamp said:
Is the Safe Swimming stuff completely online? If I want to do Floats and Boats in September, do I need any in-person training before then?
If you want to increase your knowledge and skills, check in at your local Scout camp this summer and complete two courses:
Aquatics Supervision: Swimming and Water Rescue - a day or two
Aquatics Supervision: Paddle Craft Safety - a day or two
Next level is BSA Lifeguard... takes a week at a Summer Camp, if offered
Next level is go to National Camp School, Aquatics Director program. Week long intensive course... Lifeguard cert required before starting...
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54 minutes ago, GiraffeCamp said:
Is the Safe Swimming stuff completely online? If I want to do Floats and Boats in September, do I need any in-person training before then?
All online...
You will need to do Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat. On my.scouting Training, they are under "Expanded Learning" "Program Safety" While you are there, recommend you go ahead and complete Hazardous Weather training.
Then, please read and comply with applicable sections of Guide to Safe Scouting "Aquatics Safety" section.
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/
Three biggest gotchas: 1. Anyone not classified as a Swimmer must be in a boat with an adult classified as Swimmer. 2. Cub Scouts may not do boating on moving water. 3. Participants must wear a life jacket for all afloat activities, including tubing.
Have a blast!!
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13 minutes ago, GiraffeCamp said:
YES!!! That's the whole reason we are in scouting and not in some sort of academic enrichment program. We need experiential and social learning!
I've seen conflicting things on SCOUTStrong/Healthy Unit--do you know if that's still going? If I should be checking those off and giving out an award or if it is no longer active? I saw online it is over but the official site doesn't say anything.
I think I have a rough sketch of meeting and activity. Would you mind me sending a PM with it for criticism or encouragement?
No need for a PM...
The Scout Strong awards were retired on 31 Dec 2020. My guess is due to lack of popularity...
But, as with any retired award, you may give them out as long as you can find a source for the patches. They are still for sale...
https://www.scoutshop.org/nsearch/?q=ScoutStrong
These will probably show in Scoutbook for several more years, but that's a guess.
I pitched these to our Patrol Leaders Council for program, and they were, "No, thanks!" There is so much other program material to do...
As you are picking a program for Lions and Tigers (and Bears, oh, my!! Sorry...that slipped), you'd have to really work to put it on their level.
If you choose to do one, recommend the Healthy Unit Award option...
Happy Hunting
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BTW, busts are anything where someone just talks or reads from a book...
"A boy is not a sitting-down animal." BP
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6 minutes ago, GiraffeCamp said:
Forget the kids, can we just have adult meeting with you planning? 😁
Absolutely! The adults with our Troop have just as much fun as the Scouts!
Who doesn't love crossing the monkey bridge, fishing, swimming in the river, or acting silly at a campfire?
Gotta be a Scout at heart
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
When the issues surrounding transferring assets to Protection Trusts arose with the Middle TN Council, she was not happy. From my reading, National holds a reversionary interest in LC assets upon revocation or relinquishment of Charter. If so, that is the thread upon which one tugs to show the two entities are, indeed, of the same cloth.
Is this one of the main reasons National chooses who the SE's are? To protect their "reversionary interests"?
And before you say National doesn't choose...they choose the small pool from whom the SE comes, so, in effect, they choose.
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2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
Unfortunately, I think we will have a different war on our hands.
That is the nature of war
It is always a different one than what you wanted...the enemy has a vote 
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- Local wildlife rehabilitation center (if they allow visitors, this is an awesome trip where young Scouts get to see native wildlife.)
- Planetarium
- Anything with dinosaurs...I mean, anything!
- Local "commercial" cave
- Local quarry
- A farm (with animals, big machines, and something they can pick and eat)
- Playing in a mud puddle!!! (You know you'd love it, too.
)
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2 hours ago, yknot said:
Except today things being the way they are we send lawyers to snap them in half.
No, when they go to prison, the inmates usually take justice into their hands. Child molesters are the lowest in the prison pecking order...and a target for everyone else.
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39 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
I am wondering, too. Wild speculation here.
1) There were last minute property shifts away from LCs just before (or just after) bankruptcy that would be exposed. That was the allegation leveled against Middle Tennessee Council and other Councils.
2) Obstinate LCs: I know there were some councils in early filings that insisted that they were not going to cooperate until it could be shown there was claims in their council. I wonder (again speculation here) if these councils think they can just go it alone and are betting on no future claims against them?
3) Longstanding and questionable financials. In other words, nothing to do with the bankruptcy, just some councils have had longstanding...questionable?....financial processes. They don't want any scrutiny for possible tax/legality purposes.
I'll take 4. All the above.
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In your nomination, describe how the candidate demonstrates leadership in service.
"...who serves his fellows, is, of all his fellows, greatest!"
In the Wimachtendienk,
Amangiechsin
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17 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
Where is our Bear Grylls?
Mike Rowe?
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8 hours ago, fred8033 said:
Years that sucked because I was not part of the "click". Or, I was treated bad because I was friends with someone the other person did not like. Even more similar, times where I really enjoyed scouting and then took the next step and it did not work out.
The best part of Scouting is some of the people you meet. The worst part of Scouting is some of the other people you meet.
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11 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:
It is really an effort to do anything Scout related. I just can't get into it.
Without getting into to much detail, I have always had self confidence, anxiety, and depression issues. Being a leader was helping me a lot I think, I was talking to leaders outside my unit, getting out of the house going to RT,
After my WB experience in October that I will not rehash here. things went south. I went from mad to disappointed to really depressed. At the beginning of December. I left all the Scout FB groups, I unfriended everyone on FB that wasn't family. I have removed myself as an admin on the Pack public FB page. I left all my community FB groups. I don't have friends other than my wife, so I don't get and do things. I did a total lockdown social isolation thing.
I have since recovered and added a few more non family people back into FB. Scouts still sucks though. I am Cubmaster, so Key 3, yet I don't feel like I have any say in anything the Pack does. We have a very active committee this year, but I hate dealing with them. Lots of really successful outgoing people, and I don't see why anyone would care of put any weight into what I have to say. I could go into this ad nauseum....
How do I get enjoy Scouts back? I am really trying my best to stick with it through next year when my son finishes up AOL. I am not really encouraging him to join a Troop because as it is right now I don't want anything to do with it. Or should I just give it all up?
Scouting is not your priority. Stepping away from it is OK.
How is your spiritual life? How is your family dynamic? How is your financial health? How is your physical health? (Although, Scouting can help with the last one
) These questions are rhetorical...please do not answer them here. But, if you are really not where you want to be with these, they will also affect your Scouting experience. So, a little attention to these areas of life can help.
As @CynicalScouter said, counseling is a positive thing. Talking with someone, exploring what motivates you and why you are experiencing this low spot, and finding ways to cope with the stresses that bring you back to "center" will go a long way to making extra-curricular things like Scouting more enjoyable.
You are fighting the same battle we all deal with a various times... and you can find a way through.
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16 hours ago, David CO said:
Yes we are. The thing I find so strange is that there seems to be an inverse relationship here. The more we protect (bubble wrap) kids in the real world, the more the literary world has kids endangering themselves. I am not usually a psychology type of person, but I think there must be something going on here. Maybe the kids' reading preferences are a reaction to having an over-protected life.
16 hours ago, yknot said:I don't know. I think the average suburban kid in a stable home is well protected from physical harm, but psychologically I think society dangles them over cliffs. In many ways, kids are not allowed to be kids any more. Mentally they are pushed into adult situations and adult stress loads. The attraction for this kind of literature and media may be that it presents kids with characters who are able to survive in chaotic, dangerous worlds where adults are no longer in control or can't be trusted. Whatever it is, there is definitely something going on though and it's disturbing.
Gents, young people (you included, when you were young) have a need for risk and an element of danger, if for nothing more than to find out what the boundaries are... This is primary territory for scouting.
If you have time, two good articles....shocking statistic about "roaming distance" btw
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/risk-essential-childhood-children-danger
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/16/childre-nature-outside-play-health
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7 hours ago, fred8033 said:
Are we saying a non-emergency medical condition allows ignoring Guide To Safe Scouting rules ?
@fred8033, no, not "ignoring". But there are non-emergency medical conditions which would require an "exception to policy". Two examples...a sleepwalker, and a Scout with disabilities which made him unable to grasp and open zippers on sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, pants, etc,, and to not be able to take care of personal hygiene adequately. In both cases, before the event, the unit made a written request to the SE, who concurred and informed National (who might have vetoed?). Both cases were approved with two stipulations: 1) those adults may not be counted towards required supervision for the rest of the unit, and 2) the exception would terminate if the Scout's condition improved to where the exception was no longer required.
We did have an issue where, based on SM judgment, we had a parent tent with Scout. It was Scout's first night with the Troop. Parent (committee member) was camping with adults, in separate location and tent. Unit was in bear country. Another mischievous Scout thought it would be funny to act like a bear and scare the bejeezus (technical term) out of the first nighter... Well, the first nighter was absolutely terrified (bejeezus meter definitely on on zero). The only way he was going to stay was if the parent slept in the tent with him. SM made the call to do it, but one night only...if first nighter "needed" this the second night, they would go home. Parent was not one of the supervising adults. Second night was fine. Scout slept alone.
7 hours ago, fred8033 said:Just not on "abuse" or "safety".
Agreed. I usually reason with the parents along these lines: 1) We understand your Scout is afraid, but he will be fine. This isn't our first rodeo. And yes, your Scout is unique. (just like everybody else, but we don't say that out loud) 2) A Scout is brave. In order to be brave, you MUST have fear. Without fear, there is no bravery. This is a key point Scouts must learn. 99 times out of 100, when you ask a new Scout what is means to be brave, he says it means "to not be afraid". Nothing could be further from the truth... 3) He needs to face this challenge to grow, and he will receive loads of encouragement and support. 4) If you tent with him, the other Scouts WILL think this odd, and we will have to work harder at "perception" management and watch how the others interact with your Scout. Please save them this potential pain and embarrassment. 5) If you tent with your Scout, it WILL be detrimental to other Scouts whose parents could not attend, and this can be a cause for resentment towards your Scout. 6) If you do not believe your Scout can handle sleeping without you, then perhaps he is not ready for the program.
7 hours ago, fred8033 said:I'd be very very upset with the parents.
Yeah, that was a huge foul on the part of the ASM, for not informing the adult leaders who were supervising. Chastisement definitely in order.
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19 minutes ago, elitts said:
The frequency with which this problem crops up across a system as widespread as the BSA is in the US makes me think it must be rooted in a systemic failure somewhere. Either because the established processing requirements are inexplicably complicated or because the BSA has failed to grasp the fundamental truth that basic competence in recordkeeping is an important reflection on an organization.
The latter...
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2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
That is where things like tower rules and no parents in tents come from; ONE case or ONE instance of a successful lawsuit of a scout being injured from a tower or a parent/step-parent abusing their kid at a Scout event (and it has happened) and BSA is going to put in a rule to try and stop it.
Because the NEXT time a scout gets abused or the NEXT time a scout falls from a 6 foot tower, you better believe that the lawyers will point to the PRIOR incident as proof BSA knew it was a danger and disregarded it.
I call this the "one person poops his pants and then everybody has to wear a diaper" rule!
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17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Towers is actually a safety rule. BSA (or their lawyers) adopted the OSHA standard for workplace safety, namely, you cannot have a situation in which a person can fall more than 6 feet without a fall restraint system or something similar.
And why Scouts cannot climb trees any more. 🤪😒😬
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Best protection from bears is to put food in someone else's tent
Kidding!!!
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Chapter 11 announced
in Issues & Politics
Posted
And I can see the good Lord smiling on the undertakings of others and justly rewarding their efforts.