InquisitiveScouter

- Local wildlife rehabilitation center (if they allow visitors, this is an awesome trip where young Scouts get to see native wildlife.)

- Planetarium

- Anything with dinosaurs...I mean, anything!

- Local "commercial" cave

- Local quarry

- A farm (with animals, big machines, and something they can pick and eat)

- Playing in a mud puddle!!!  (You know you'd love it, too.  )

2 hours ago, yknot said:

Except today things being the way they are we send lawyers to snap them in half.

No, when they go to prison, the inmates usually take justice into their hands.  Child molesters are the lowest in the prison pecking order...and a target for everyone else. 

39 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I am wondering, too. Wild speculation here.

1) There were last minute property shifts away from LCs just before (or just after) bankruptcy that would be exposed. That was the allegation leveled against Middle Tennessee Council and other Councils.

2) Obstinate LCs: I know there were some councils in early filings that insisted that they were not going to cooperate until it could be shown there was claims in their council. I wonder (again speculation here) if these councils think they can just go it alone and are betting on no future claims against them?

3) Longstanding and questionable financials. In other words, nothing to do with the bankruptcy, just some councils have had longstanding...questionable?....financial processes. They don't want any scrutiny for possible tax/legality purposes.

I'll take 4.  All the above.

In your nomination, describe how the candidate demonstrates leadership in service.

"...who serves his fellows, is, of all his fellows, greatest!"

In the Wimachtendienk,

Amangiechsin

17 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Where is our Bear Grylls?

Mike Rowe?

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Years that sucked because I was not part of the "click".  Or, I was treated bad because I was friends with someone the other person did not like.  Even more similar, times where I really enjoyed scouting and then took the next step and it did not work out. 

The best part of Scouting is some of the people you meet.  The worst part of Scouting is some of the other people you meet.

11 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

It is really an effort to do anything Scout related.  I just can't get into it.

Without getting into to much detail, I have always had self confidence, anxiety, and depression issues.  Being a leader was helping me a lot I think, I was talking to leaders outside my unit, getting out of the house going to RT, 

After my WB experience in October that I will not rehash here. things went south.  I went from mad to disappointed to really depressed.  At the beginning of December. I left all the Scout FB groups, I unfriended everyone on FB that wasn't family.  I have removed myself as an admin on the Pack public FB page.  I left all my community FB groups.  I don't have friends other than my wife, so I don't get and do things.  I did a total lockdown social isolation thing.

 

I have since recovered and added a few more non family people back into FB.  Scouts still sucks though.  I am Cubmaster, so Key 3, yet I don't feel like I have any say in anything the Pack does.  We have a very active committee this year, but I hate dealing with them.  Lots of really successful outgoing people, and I don't see why anyone would care of put any weight into what I have to say.  I could go into this ad nauseum....

 

How do I get enjoy Scouts back?  I am really trying my best to stick with it through next year when my son finishes up AOL.  I am not really encouraging him to join a Troop because as it is right now I don't want anything to do with it.  Or should I just give it all up?

Scouting is not your priority.  Stepping away from it is OK.

How is your spiritual life?  How is your family dynamic?  How is your financial health?  How is your physical health? (Although, Scouting can help with the last one  )  These questions are rhetorical...please do not answer them here.  But, if you are really not where you want to be with these, they will also affect your Scouting experience.  So, a little attention to these areas of life can help.

As @CynicalScouter said, counseling is a positive thing.  Talking with someone, exploring what motivates you and why you are experiencing this low spot, and finding ways to cope with the stresses that bring you back to "center" will go a long way to making extra-curricular things like Scouting more enjoyable.

You are fighting the same battle we all deal with a various times... and you can find a way through. 

16 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes we are.  The thing I find so strange is that there seems to be an inverse relationship here.  The more we protect (bubble wrap) kids in the real world, the more the literary world has kids endangering themselves.   I am not usually a psychology type of person, but I think there must be something going on here.  Maybe the kids' reading preferences are a reaction to having an over-protected life.

16 hours ago, yknot said:

I don't know. I think the average suburban kid in a stable home is well protected from physical harm, but psychologically I think society dangles them over cliffs. In many ways, kids are not allowed to be kids any more. Mentally they are pushed into adult situations and adult stress loads. The attraction for this kind of literature and media may be that it presents kids with characters who are able to survive in chaotic, dangerous worlds where adults are no longer in control or can't be trusted. Whatever it is, there is definitely something going on though and it's disturbing. 

Gents,  young people (you included, when you were young)  have a need for risk and an element of danger, if for nothing more than to find out what the boundaries are...  This is primary territory for scouting.

If you have time, two good articles....shocking statistic about "roaming distance" btw

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/risk-essential-childhood-children-danger

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/16/childre-nature-outside-play-health

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Are we saying a non-emergency medical condition allows ignoring Guide To Safe Scouting rules ?

@fred8033, no, not "ignoring".  But there are non-emergency medical conditions which would require an "exception to policy".  Two examples...a sleepwalker, and a Scout with disabilities which made him unable to grasp and open zippers on sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, pants, etc,, and to not be able to take care of personal hygiene adequately.   In both cases, before the event, the unit made a written request to the SE, who concurred and informed National (who might have vetoed?).  Both cases were approved with two stipulations: 1) those adults may not be counted towards required supervision for the rest of the unit, and 2) the exception would terminate if the Scout's condition improved to where the exception was no longer required.

We did have an issue where, based on SM judgment, we had a parent tent with Scout.  It was Scout's first night with the Troop.  Parent (committee member) was camping with adults, in separate location and tent.  Unit was in bear country.  Another mischievous Scout thought it would be funny to act like a bear and scare the bejeezus (technical term) out of the first nighter...  Well, the first nighter was absolutely terrified (bejeezus meter definitely on on zero).  The only way he was going to stay was if the parent slept in the tent with him.  SM made the call to do it, but one night only...if first nighter "needed" this the second night, they would go home.  Parent was not one of the supervising adults.  Second night was fine.  Scout slept alone.

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Just not on "abuse" or "safety".  

Agreed.  I usually reason with the parents along these lines: 1) We understand your Scout is afraid, but he will be fine.  This isn't our first rodeo.  And yes, your Scout is unique. (just like everybody else, but we don't say that out loud) 2) A Scout is brave.  In order to be brave, you MUST have fear.  Without fear, there is no bravery.  This is a key point Scouts must learn.  99 times out of 100, when you ask a new Scout what is means to be brave, he says it means "to not be afraid".  Nothing could be further from the truth...  3) He needs to face this challenge to grow,  and he will receive loads of encouragement and support.  4) If you tent with him, the other Scouts WILL think this odd, and we will have to work harder at "perception" management and watch how the others interact with your Scout.  Please save them this potential  pain and embarrassment.  5)  If you tent with your Scout, it WILL be detrimental to other Scouts whose parents could not attend, and this can be a cause for resentment towards your Scout.  6) If you do not believe your Scout can handle sleeping without you, then perhaps he is not ready for the program.

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I'd be very very upset with the parents.  

Yeah, that was a huge foul on the part of the ASM, for not informing the adult leaders who were supervising.  Chastisement definitely in order.

19 minutes ago, elitts said:

The frequency with which this problem crops up across a system as widespread as the BSA is in the US makes me think it must be rooted in a systemic failure somewhere.  Either because the established processing requirements are inexplicably complicated or because the BSA has failed to grasp the fundamental truth that basic competence in recordkeeping is an important reflection on an organization.

The latter...

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

That is where things like tower rules and no parents in tents come from; ONE case or ONE instance of a successful lawsuit of a scout being injured from a tower or a parent/step-parent abusing their kid at a Scout event (and it has happened) and BSA is going to put in a rule to try and stop it.

Because the NEXT time a scout gets abused or the NEXT time a scout falls from a 6 foot tower, you better believe that the lawyers will point to the PRIOR incident as proof BSA knew it was a danger and disregarded it.

I call this the "one person poops his pants and then everybody has to wear a diaper" rule! 

17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Towers is actually a safety rule. BSA (or their lawyers) adopted the OSHA standard for workplace safety, namely, you cannot have a situation in which a person can fall more than 6 feet without a fall restraint system or something similar.

 

And why Scouts cannot climb trees any more. 🤪😒😬

Best protection from bears is to put food in someone else's tent

Kidding!!!

Don't forget to sign and return the very last page of the application  (page 9 of the pdf)...the Additional Disclosures and Background Information Authorization.

Also note, there are many links to the old application out there.  You must use the 02/2020 version.  Best to get it from the official source...

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf

Second most common mistake in filling out the application...don't forget the two blocks requiring initials, just to the left of your signature block.  These are part of the "I hereby certify that:"

And if you want to put the best example forward, please follow the Guide to Awards and Insignia when "assembling" your uniform.

https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/

Family Camping

Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Sea Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply.

Recreational Family Camping

Recreational family camping occurs when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rent. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training.

------------------------------

Maybe they are referring to this "Recreational Family Camping"

We have had exceptions to the "Troop" rules, based on physical or medical needs.  Each done on a case by case basis, with approval from the SE.

24 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

There is a local troop nearby that is the definition of an Eagle mill.  Every week there is more email and promotion of past Eagles "So and so what our 250th Eagle scout, it's his birthday".  "Come to our meeting tonight and earn the XYZ Merit Badge"

That troop has zero youth that know how to advocate for themselves.  They expect to get Eagle and have everything handed over.

I have the immediate distain for a Troop that starts the conversation with "we have had X Eagles last year, this year, ever."  I want to here "Our scouts love camping and going on high adventure"

I feel your frustration, too...

Whenever we have a prospective parent ask, "How many of your Scouts earn Eagle?"  We always answer now, "As many as are willing to do the work to earn it."  That answer is well-received about 50% of the time...the other 50% usually wind up in a mill...

On 2/11/2021 at 10:14 AM, SSScout said:

Why didn't you help my son more?

"Because he didn't ask."   ...is my usual response  

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

Love and discipline are not mutually exclusive.  We can love children and still discipline them.

 

@David CO  We can go further...you cannot love without discipline.  They are mutually inclusive.

Proverbs 13:24 (among others)

You are welcome to stay as long as you accept the consequences for your behavior and show progress in exerting self-control.

That is crux of discipline versus punishment.

If your behavior continues  (especially if it is harming to others), you will leave.

Firm but fair.

56 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

That hasn't been true since at least 2007.

Disagree...CO has control of the monies...but agree must be held for Scouting.  So, if the CO wants to give it to another unit, that is up to them...

Grrr...

Several units in our council are not renewing.  No inquiries from council on "How can we help to keep you going?"  But several Key 3's (that I know) did get emails from council saying "Please write us a check for any remaining unit funds and close your unit bank accounts."  With a mention that they would hold those funds in trust for a period of time (not specified) to be given back to the units if and when they rechartered.  (Anyone believe that??)  No mention of the fact that that money technically belongs to the CO when the unit does not renew.

Grrr...

A parallel... The US Olympic Committee is a 501 C 3 facing consequences for it's role in cases of sexual abuse of gymnasts.  If the USOC ceased to exist, sporting competitions and the Olympics would continue.  Another group would fill the gap.  the USOC is not sports, and sports is not the USOC.

https://www.moran.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/news-releases?id=4A4EB912-624B-4706-A6A1-64DC88E20C74

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:07BDl3Txjr0J:https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/olympic-organizations-face-multiple-investigations-by-justice-department-state-attorneys-general/2019/09/13/7e190fa2-d654-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The BSA is not Scouting.  BSA is a corporation that markets their Scouting program (monopolistically?).  If the corporation does not exist, Scouting still will.  Scouting existed in this country before the BSA, afterall.

At the local level, I am not concerned.  Nor am I at the national level...the movement of Scouting will continue in some form or another, with or without the BSA.

2 hours ago, yknot said:

This is often the case with so many issues that arise on this forum and it's why many of us are often here. So many of these issues could be resolved if BSA would clarify what it means. I understand that in many cases, legal liability is the reason for the vagueness or lack of a policy. But there are so many other issues where a a little more clarity or definitiveness would simplify things in the field. 

IIRC, the BSA used to publish a book called The Language of Scouting that addressed titles.

The current online resources don't cover such things anymore.

https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/

I have a much older printed version around here somewhere...if I dig it up, I'll try to post an excerpt or two, if applicable.

Just now, Eagledad said:

but the truth is the SM is by default responsible for everyone's actions in the program.

No, but I am responsible for imposing accountability, or consequences...that role I have no problem with.