Curious about the down vote, @Tron ???

12 minutes ago, SSScout said:

I would check in that shoe box in the back of the closet.  That's what I do....😉

Too many shoe boxes, LOL!

A Mountain Dream

ENFORCED solitary leisure spent among mountain tops is so good for the soul that every man would be the better for such "retreat" if he forced himself to take it occasionally.

The quiet meditation, remote from the rush and unrest of ordinary life, cleanses the mind, and gives it ease and inspiration.  Sitting here, unperturbed by Press headlines, and looking at Mount Kenya with his hoary old head standing four square as ever, one sees the clouds come and cover him for a time, and though they bring thunder and storm, they rift away again, leaving him standing there unmoved in the sunshine, as he has stood through thousands of years of similar passing showers.

So too, on a larger scale, this world is, from time to time, disturbed by clouds of war and unrest; but these pass away and, together with them, thank goodness, the agitators who brought them about; and the old world wags on unmoved as it has done for thousands of years through similar nightmares.

So you say to yourself, why get rattled about troubles that you can't prevent ? But can't you ? Browning says: "God's in His Heaven; all's right with the world."

But a certain head-hunting tribe says that this is not so. Their belief is that the devil has for the present got possession of the world, and when that possession is over God's reign of peace will come.

The devil's agents are, after all, merely men, and it is therefore possible for man also to counter his devilments, and to bring about that reign of Peace and Goodwill which is the reign of God.

Here seems the opportunity-- indeed the Duty-- for every individual to take his share in preventing recurrence of those evils. It is in such crusade that I see a goal open to Scouters and Old Scouts.

My mountain says "Look wider; look higher; look further ahead, and a way will be seen."

Moral Rearmament, a vague term, though much used, is open to many interpretations, but among these few have so far supplied practical steps for making it a definite quality in our citizenship.

Yet the spirit of it is essential. I ventured to write a letter to The Times last year, recommending the adoption of some simple form of self-dedication to the service of Goodwill and Peace, much on the lines of the Boy Scout Promise.

This brought me numbers of letters of approval, but I don't hear whether anything definite has been done about it. Before the war a scheme for our national education was formulated "to build citizens rather than scholars"; but like many other good intentions it was dropped during the war, and has never been fully revived.

Now, even more than in those days, is such training needed if we, as a nation, are to keep pace with the developments of the age and hold our own, in giving a moral lead to others. The character of a nation depends on the individual character of its members.

Our falling birth-rate demands extra efficiency in every individual, to compensate for our lack of numbers. The steps taken by totalitarians abroad should be a spur to us where they are enforcing the universal training of their youth. This is done on lines based on Scouting methods, but confined to purely nationalist ideals of citizenship.

Citizenship has been defined briefly as "active loyalty to the community"; but should aim at securing peaceful and friendly relations with other nations. In a free country like ours it is easy, and not unusual, to consider oneself a good citizen by being a law-abiding man, doing your work and expressing your choice in politics, sport, or activities, "leaving it to George" to worry about the nation's welfare. This is passive citizenship. But the times to-day demand more than passive citizenship if we are to be a sound and solid nation, able to stand up among the others, and able to uphold in the world the virtues of freedom, justice, and honour.

Members of the church realise that it is not possible for them alone to accomplish this change of spirit. Indeed Totalitarian States look on the differing denominations rather as elements of discord in their peoples, where unity is essential for making a nation.

If, however, the individual believes that peace and goodwill are needed it is a matter for that individual, however humble, to contribute to their promotion.

It seems that each has to so discipline his conduct and, character that in his daily life he sees the other fellow's point of view as well as his own, whether it is in business dealings, or in politics, national and international, and that he is prepared to give Service wherever he can see it needed.

To believe that Peace and Goodwill-- instead of war and ill-will-- constitute the reign of God in the world is in itself a "religion." It is a religion to which all can subscribe, and one which no denomination will deny.

Its practice is citizenship of the highest type.

After all, are not these the tenets which are, and always have been, the underlying aim of our training in the Scouts ?

If you could get them more fully understood and more widely extended it would be a direct and practical, if minor, contribution towards eventually bringing about the Kingdom of God in the world. Can you see a higher, or more worthwhile. Life Crusade than this for a man ?

As very many Scouters have already realised, it opens up a wonderful opportunity for each of us, according to our powers, whether we be Scouters, Rovers, or Old Scouts, to take a hand in spreading by personal example, by teaching and talks, this practical step in the so-called Moral Rearmament. One man cannot hope to do much, but tiny individual coelenterata have built coral islands by co-operation in an ideal. It needs a highly optimistic acorn to start hopefully on producing an oak tree.

But here, in our Movement, we have all the encouragement of a pretty big plant already existing as a nucleus, in our four and a half million of boys and girls in British and other countries.

Then besides them there are the many more millions of Old Scouts and ex-Guides who will rally to the call.

To descend to details :

Let us therefore, in training our Scouts, keep the higher aims in the forefront, not let ourselves become too absorbed in the steps.

Don't let the technical outweigh the moral. Field efficiency, backwoodsmanship, camping, hiking, good, turns. Jamboree comradeships are all means, not the end.

The end is CHARACTER-- character with a purpose.

And that purpose, that the next generation be sane in an insane world, and develop the higher realisation of Service, the active service of Love and Duty to God and neighbour.

BP March, 1939.

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As a former BSA Lifeguard, I can tell you it is 99.98% ARC to the point that the books and videos used in the class was ARC. In fact if you were willing to pay an extra $20 and take the ARC exam, you would be dual certified. the .02% difference was BSA's Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat.

So BSA Lifeguard is not a good example of BSA going their own way.

It did not used to be this way.  IIRC, you had to demonstrate proficiency in Canoeing and Rowing, executing Safe Swim Defense, and conducting a Lost Bather Drill.  I just did the ARC Lifeguard Course in Dec 2021 with my 16 y.o.  There were some challenging parts, but nowhere near the effort I had to put in to earn BSA Lifeguard back in the day.

P.S.  Yup, IRC...  http://dankohn.info/~scouts/resources/bsa_lifeguard.pdf  They did away with a lot of this in the 2013 Aquatics Revision

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I find that most Venturing Crews are less about challenging one self to make better decisions and more about the boring actions of planning the next adventure.

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Venturing is coming up short in scouting because it doesn't provide a community for scouts to be adults. It needs more than adventure. 

Nor does it provide a community for adults (18-21) to be adults!!

Yes, you can Google search the words newspaper archive, Scout, Troop, 1965, the town you lived in, and the chartering organization.  If you remember the Scoutmaster's name, it might help.

1 hour ago, Tron said:

I think going to a Venture Patrol/combined with the Senior Patrol might be the most practical; however, what about the Order of the Arrow absorbing Venturing to some degree? 

So hear me out, this is a longshot, OA is struggling to engage it's current membership, and to gain new membership. OA due to cultural appropriation etc ... is changing a lot and losing part of what makes it unique amongst Scouting. So what if OA absorbs venturing to become the new fellowship part of OA and makes people really look at wanting to become an OA member to get the benefit of having lodge based co-ed programing that exists past age 18?

Love the idea...would you have to be elected to be a Venture Scout?

20 minutes ago, Spatulate said:

Does that mean most units do not have SA and all fundraising simply goes into the unit's general fund? Or is divided evenly somehow amongst all of the unit Scouts? I am trying to figure out the relationship between fundraised income and scouts using funds (from where) for scout-related purchases. As in, how to other units manage the money side of things when it comes to designating money for individal scouts?

Ask fifty different unit leaders this question, and you'll get fifty different opinions and ways of doing it 😜

We do one big fundraiser a year.  The Troop splits the proceeds earned by each Scout 60-40.  60% goes to the Troop, 40% to the Scout.  This is an incentive for Scouts to get out and support the fundraiser.

About 75% of our Scouts do this.

About 25% of our families choose our "buyout" option.  That is, they can choose not to participate in the fundraising activity, and pay a set amount (I think last year's was $75) into the Troop general fund.

A handful of our Scouts have entirely funded their years in Scouting this way...the parent's haven't had to pay a dime.  It is a great opportunity.

14 hours ago, SSScout said:

Eagled out

Love you to death @SSScout!!  For all, please use "aged out" or "leaves the Troop" versus this phrase 😜

14 hours ago, DuctTape said:

One reaon I am not a fan of parent's putting $ into a troop account ahead of time for campouts, etc... is this practice reduces (eliminates?) the opportunity for scouts to learn budgeting, responsibility, planning, value of $, etc... at the individual and patrol level. When scouts have to "touch the $" at all levels of the program they benefit greatly. Every step of the process that separates them from the $ is an opportunity lost. 

Totally agree.  I fight against this with parents all the time.  Most of the time, they do not want to deal with the pain of teaching their Scouts how to earn and handle money.  They just want to write a check and move on to the next distraction.  SMH.

The best way to approach it is two view this as two different pots of money.  The fundraised pot, which is restricted in its use, and the parent-provided pot, which is unrestricted.  Money for Scout-related items always comes out of the fundraised pot first, until it is empty. 

Anything left over in the fundraised pot at the end of a Scout's tenure stays with the Troop.  Parent-provided money goes back to the family, no questions asked.

If there are any monies left over when a Scout leaves the unit, we let the Scout determine the disposition.

Most of the time, they ask to transfer it to another Scout in need, or make it a "donation" to the general Troop fund.

BTW, these monies can be used to support funding for Eagle Projects!

1 minute ago, Spatulate said:

Got it, thanks! Wish the money issue was less complex! I also wonder if different units have varying policies on this topic (?) 

Yes, different units will just blow this kind of nitnoid stuff off...

Again, for me, it's an integrity issue.

30 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

So, I have this question:

Parent of a Scout, in their first 2 years of scouting , pay $600 for camp fees-things which are permissible to be paid by scouting account funds.

Year 3, scout gets up to speed and raises $250 through unit fundraising activities.

Scout then uses $150 for more camp fees, then quits Scouting leaving a $100 balance in the Scout's scout account.

Can the remaining balance of $100 in Scout's scout account be refunded to parents to partially reimburse them for the $600 in camping fees they paid during Scout's first two years of tenure, leaving them with only a $500 parental outlay?

Note, had Scout earned $250 through fundraising activities right off the bat, those funds would have been used first before parents paid out of their pocket, and parents would have only spent $500.

Mathematically, the result is the same.

The only difference is the timing of the additions to the Scout's scout account.

@SiouxRanger, yes, it's the timing that ties your hands here.

We use a policy of all fundraising monies come out of the account first to pay for things.  Any parent--provided monies still in the account can be paid out back to the family.

Again, no one is going to come looking.  It's an integrity issue for me.

13 minutes ago, Spatulate said:

My understanding is that one cannot cash out a scout account because that would be considered income by the IRS. IOW, no refunds.

 

Not quite, @Spatulate, see above.  If it is the parents' money, then it is the parents' money...

1 hour ago, Spatulate said:

If a scout is dual-enrolled, what happens to funds in their individual Scout Account from the first troop they joined?

We are phasing out individual Scout Accounts by the end of this year, but we have two scout unit members who have also just joined another unit in a different District and plan to hold simultaneous membership. They will be doing their meetings and advancement with the other troop.

We are temporarily chartered with Council, having lost our Elks charter, but hope to charter elsewhere soon.

Do we send checks to the new unit to transfer their money Do we keep funds in our unit accounts? Don’t funds belong to the CO?

Help and info are much appreciated!

p.s I had not heard of Scouts belonging to two units simultaneously…

This is my first question for the forum and I’m sorry if I put it in the wrong place. Please advise if I need to move it

Great question!

Scouts can belong to as many units as they wish.  It is called "multiple membership", and they only have to pay one fee to National/Council.

But, as you have discovered, one unit must be "primary."  This is the unit that must pay the membership fee, insurance, council service fee, etc, and must also be the primary for advancement reporting to eliminate confusion and redundant submissions.

Now, to your money question...  The money does not technically belong to the Scout.  It is being held on behalf of the Scout by the Chartering Organization.  There are several IRS rules governing this. In a nutshell, two specifically apply:

1.  Any funds raised for the purposes of Scouting must only be used for Scouting.  That is, your unit may not use the fundraised monies to buy things for Scouts that are not directly related to Scouting.  You can pay for Summer Camp, uniforms, camping fees, etc, buy you may not buy personal boots, backpacks, a birthday cake, etc...

2.  Since the CO technically owns all fundraised monies, make sure they are OK with the transfer.  I know we talking minor amounts, but you do need to keep them in the loop.  I cannot imagine them saying 'No", but they could.

Other issues...    A.  never write a check or give fundraised money directly to the Scout.  Although the IRS doesn't really care about you and your unit account, the principle is that when you give the Scout money directly for their efforts at fundraising, it counts as income.     

B. never use monies fundraised by the Scout to pay for things for the Scout's parents; membership fees, camping fees, etc.  Parents can participate in fundraisers and establish a Scout account, and now you can track that in Scoutbook.

If the monies were raised under your old CO, then just clear it with them.  Write a check to the new Troop, put the Scout's name in the Memo line, and Bob's your uncle...

50 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

rage

???

1 minute ago, Spatulate said:

🤪 Is it that obvious? 🤣

I’ve got questions and need answers which seem hard to come by elsewhere.. 👍🏻
 

 

Well, you will find them here.  Much quicker, and more informed than from your local council, too, I'd bet 😛

32 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Disconnect between local-national and volunteer-professional has been vanishing.  I am sure you have good reasons to say some of these things.  We all form views based on experience.  My experience is that there is not much disconnect across the movement, whether it is the local-national or volunteer-professional issue.  I am a dual unit leader (Troop and Ship) and yet have very productive conversations with volunteers and professionals across all levels of the movement.  Of course I restrict my communications to matters appropriate to the person I am conversing with and watch the frequency.  I am also broadly known as a person who performs.  I am known as a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.  Those are just my approaches, but my calls are always welcomed and returned.  They respect me as much as the mother I just Emailed to share I just arranged a scholarship for her son.

Now is a great time for people to re-evaluate these issues and how they personally operate.  We are moving from survival mode to work-out mode, all on the way to normalcy in a couple of years.  The only logical way to behave during this is to be flexible, positive and helpful.  We can all do this and will be better for it.

Great thoughts!  I should forward those to our local council.

I, too, am a 

33 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.

But, rather than helping me to fix things, our council SE asked me for money, without a thought or recognition for how valuable my time is.  And when I said no, and did not support FoS, he removed me (and others) from our District and Council positions.  There is more to the story, of course, but, I tell you, my behavior throughout the events, has been courteous and professional towards them, without reciprocity.

I even asked him on the phone what it would take to restore the relationship.  His reply, "Support FoS."  Again, I refused.  So, I pour my efforts into supporting our unit and other units.  Because we have no DE, no functioning Commissioner Corps, and a camp in shambles....

I literally spend 30-40 hours per week volunteering for Scouting.   Please spare me the off-handed indictment, brother.

20 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

If not, the best way to recruit the next volunteer is to walk away and leave a vacuum to fill. 

This is a sad truth.  Best of luck on your golfing endeavors!  Watch out for the gophers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79mLV9b30c&ab_channel=Michael

27 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

had to teach herself

These are the people worth holding on to!!!

27 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

When I went thru PDL-1, everyone was suppose to go through either the Exploring Leader Basic Training or the Exploring Leader Basic Training Self Study. I think I was the only one who actually did the training because the instructor said "as long as you read the info, your good, we don't need to go over it." 

SMH

27 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

On the local level, I wore a Sea Scout uniform to an event, and the SE wanted to know what I was wearing.

SMH x 2

22 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

 They really thought the BSA could impact the outlook of young adults.

They could, but there is an ENORMOUS disconnect between the local professional side of the house and the volunteer side of the house.  A connection from National to local volunteers is non-existent, but that is, I believe, as it should be.

I know we volunteers are valued at the grass roots hometown level (the youth and parents we serve).  And I know that we are not valued by my current local council.  The ONLY impact you are going to have, on a large scale, with ANY youth, is THROUGH THE ADULT VOLUNTEERS.

@Spatulate, welcome!

We could start by enforcing the laws we have on the books...across the board, or get rid of them! 

Then, reinvigorate our system of mental health hospitals. https://www.nri-inc.org/our-work/nri-reports/tracking-the-history-of-state-psychiatric-hospital-closures/

Then, we need velocity in justice.  Justice delayed is justice denied.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_delayed_is_justice_denied#

I, for one, have lost a great deal of faith in our justice system.  

I have lost faith in our Congress.  Are your Representative and Senators really "representative"??  Are they working to make our country better?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth

I have lost faith in our Executive Branch...  selective enforcement of laws erodes public trust.

If we, the people, cannot trust the basic institutions we have put in place to secure our rights, then...

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute DespotismOligarchy, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/is-america-an-oligarchy

Before this happens, expect unrest and violence to increase.

Now add economic hardship as gasoline on the fire...

I spent 26 years under an Oath to defend the Constitution.  Wanna know why veteran suicide is at astronomical rates?  Many feel their service and sacrifice is wasted, seeing at how we act as a nation.

https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2021/2021-National-Veteran-Suicide-Prevention-Annual-Report-FINAL-9-8-21.pdf

Think about that this Memorial Day.

5 hours ago, fred8033 said:

It's not BSA.  It's the legal environment in this country.  

??  Would you elaborate, please?

13 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

I agree that the corps of adults in these specialized programs really believe in the programs and bring their professional expertise to them.  They are typically active or retired military or law enforcement people who are encouraged by their professions to be involved.  This has not really changed -- the Skippers of the Sea Scout Ship of my youth were WWII combat vets from the Navy and Coast Guard who belonged to our local Coast Guard Auxiliary and veterans organizations.   Now that Sea Scouts is the official youth program of the Coast Guard Auxiliary (which so far operates 27 Ships) I can see that potentially taking off in a big way.  Law enforcement and the military are in tight cooperation with these specialized programs for very good reasons.  They provide very stable COs.  The current day "stand alone" version of Venturing does not have these factors going for it.  If our counsel asked me to go form ten 'stand alone" Venturing crews, it would be a really tough job.   

  

This is where the BSA is missing out.  There is a corps of military veterans out there who would love to serve as Scout leaders.  BSA should be actively recruiting them.

Totally understand that Scouting is not military training!  That message must always come through loud and clear.

But, every skill I ever learned in Scouting made me a better leader, officer, pilot, or whatever job I happened to be doing at the time.

IMHO, these should also be the primary leaders in the corporate structure of BSA.

Remember where BP got his ideas for the program.  And I heard a great quote the other day from another Scouter...

"If it wasn't for the Siege of Mafeking, I'd have a lot of extra time on my hands." 😜

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mafeking

5 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

My personal leaning is that Venturing can best be positioned as a “Patrol” attached to a Scouts BSA Troop.

Yeah, your number three option seems the best...

Separate male and female patrols until they reach a certain age and rank  (my gut says 14 and First Class, kind of like the requirement for Scouts to join and continue working on advancement.)  Then combine into Venturing Patrol (name isn't important, but could be kept for legacy...)

5 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

What Keeps Sea Scouts and Law Enforcement Exploring Running So Well?  COVID, the bankruptcy, and other operational and program deformations have severely impacted Venturing, but Sea Scouts and Law Enforcement Exploring seem to just continue on with sufficient numbers of young adult and adult members.  There is not much in the way of needed BSA professional time or financial investment.  What are the factors about these teen-focused programs that have quietly kept them operating for decades?

Adult volunteers who know what they are doing, and have a passion for the specific program.

Think about who would be the majority of adult volunteers for these programs...  What type of person or background comes to mind??