InquisitiveScouter

43 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Scoutingers create is a place where young people can practice making decisions about other people and learn  from the results or consequence. It's and environment where fairness is learned from Scouters through the guidance of an oath and law. Scouting is whereers teach the meek learn to stand up and make a difference. Scoutingers encourages dreaming and making the world a better place. Scoutingers and Scouts saves lives and makes communities better. Scouting is a source forers and Scouts demonstrate the kind of peace the world is looking for today.

Hope you don't mind the suggestions.

It is we who do these things.  It is we who bring the idea to life.  Scouting is an idea and a movement, but it doesn't do anything of itself.

BSA is a organization with a culture... The people in that culture knew there were wolves in the fold.  They made decisions about dealing with the wolves that seemed (repeat, seemed) to sway more towards protecting the image and existence of the organization rather than the lambs in the flock.  And, the continued decisions, actions, and conduct of those people, throughout this process, still seem (repeat, seem) to belie an attitude which sways more towards protecting the organization, image, and coffers rather than damaged and crippled lambs who grew into the strongest sheep they could.  (Please pardon the analogy...it only goes so far, and I think stretched it a bit past that point.)

My allegiance lies with Scouting, not with BSA.  I am ambivalent about BSA's continued existence.  Scouting, I believe, will continue on without it.

And the wolves are still out there, BSA or no BSA.

8 minutes ago, jcousino said:

I can see how they had a major cow over that , they feel any thing done in the name of scouting belongs to them. I have seen  this before when troops would get donations form  bigger chains then the  chains would  tells friend of scouting campaigns that they have already given there allotment to scouts (troops). 

I would be interested to see how this plays off next year.as the Troop did not solicit solute the company ,but only benefited from a company worker policy.

PS about how much are we talking here?

 

john

Exactly, we did not solicit the donation.  Units may accept any and all unsolicited donations. 

Make sure you never give the council's or national's EIN when doing this, otherwise, the money is technically theirs!!  And use your CO's EIN only with permission!!  It's an IRS reporting thing

We are talking several thousand dollars.  $500 per employee per year...  YMMV

On 5/2/2022 at 4:19 PM, qwazse said:

When will they ever learn?

Rule #1 Don't ask for a rule, you'll live to regret it.

A grant is not fundraising. A grant is a commitment to partner with an organization who might provide the necessary funds to accomplish a project but cannot itself employ all of the laborers. Son #1's eagle project was grant-funded. Son #2's was expensed as part of his church's budget. In neither case did we push fundraising paperwork.

You need to heed your LC's guidance when it comes to funds that will build your troop's treasury.

You need to heed the grant's funding agency's guidance when applying to fulfill one of their projects.

The only consideration would be if the project looks way bigger than your troop can handle. If so, loop the LC in to see if it can be done in concert with multiple troops in your district.

Follow up:

So, it all depends...

Grants can be tricky, depending on the IRS reporting.  In order to apply for this grant, the grantor wanted an EIN to verify we were a bona fide non-profit.

Depending on nature of the grant, grantors and grantees may incur some IRS reporting requirements as well.

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/private-foundations/grant-defined

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/private-foundations/grants-to-noncharitable-organizations

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/private-foundations/reports-from-grantees

In this case, we asked our CO if we could use their EIN.  They gave enthusiastic permission!

However, the grantor in this case rolls up all grants to Scout units in their program.  The question was, what will they do for reporting?  If they used a single EIN, and it was either a council or national EIN, then we would need permission to accept the grant from the EIN holder.

So I corresponded with their corporate finance office, and they assured me that their reporting did not use our CO, any BSA council, or BSA national info for their filing.

When I relayed all of this to our council finance and SE, they understood they had no dog in the fight.

You do not need council permission, UNLESS the council is your CO!

Scout on!!!

btw, @qwazse I only sought their input because of a certain animosity on our council's part towards our unit and the way we do business.  Council does not appreciate it when we know and apply the rules to our advantage....which we repeatedly do 😜  But you have to know the rules!!!  Especially when it comes to money.

P.S. Reveling in, rather than regretting this one

We live near a big pharma corporation.  Several parents work for them.  When the parents donate volunteer time to our Troop, the company will also make a $500 donation to the non-profit who sponsors you. 

We asked our chartering organization if they were fine with us using their EIN for IRS reporting purposes.  They gave us enthusiastic approval.

The first year we did this, the corporation sent the check, payable to our unit, to our local council.  Fortunately, someone in accounting caught it, instead of trying to deposit it for the council.

The council Director of Development was livid, and tried to pressure us into giving them the money.

Not only NO, but "H" "E" double-toothpicks NO.

I picked up the check from the council office with a big smile.

Scout on!

Just now, malraux said:

The Scout handbook is at least intended to last several years. The way cub stuff has to be repurchased yearly is really off-putting. New book, necker, hat, belt and socks yearly just feels bad. 

It is bad...no need for any of that.

It's just a scheme to generate revenue. 

3 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

I'm telling my parents to not buy the Cub Scout handbooks.  At $25 a year, it's another expense that really isn't needed.  Scoutbook has all the requirements and a little Google time will clarify any questions.  My kids haven't opened theirs on their own at all.  The Boy Scout handbook is probably more useful as it isn't a one year and done thing.

A Scout is thrifty!!!

3 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

What a crock of XXXX. 

Yeah, all around bad idea, IMO.  

Agree with @Sentinel947

11 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

Who's giving them PR advice? Survivors should ask the BSA for a Silver Buffalo Medal. 🙄

Call them and ask for your Silver Buffalo medal, certificate, and knot!

At around $25 per, and time to produce the certificates...if 10K survivors asked, you're looking at $250K min and a good amount of man-hours.

Anyone willing to call and find out the phone number/contact info for the process?? 

7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Where in West Oklahoma? I was active in the Last Frontier Council from 1967 to 2005. I now live in Edmond. I kind of like to know my scouting neighbors. Howdy neighbor, 

Barry

Used to be a neighbor, Barry!  Lived in Enid from 89 to 93.  Great Salt Plains Council it was back then...

16 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

Like you, I came over shortly after the BSA Programs Forum excluded a lot of important topics and discussions. I've been finding a lot of good topics on this website so far and it seems that it is pretty active with lots of good responses from experienced scouters. There's even an eDutch Oven!!

Welcome back @physics32

I wish I just made this!

15 minutes ago, malraux said:

Being somewhat more involved in the Cub Scout area, I can say that on the Cub Scout side, there was a bunch of not reliable information that gets perpetuated even after the official word comes in to correct it. Having bad information on the official forum is not great. That said, a better way to get answers that everyone can reference would be nice. 

It was a discussion forum, not a forum to engage with BSA employees.

When someone put forth a wrong idea, others invariably stepped in to correct it.

I think they shut it down because the discussions pointed out so many flaws in the way BSA publishes and promulgates information, that they just wanted to eliminate the embarrassment.

14 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

If I wasn't going to be thrown off this forum I'd say this in a MUCH different manner.  But instead, please remember that for any Survivor telling his/her story your terminology is an insult beyond words.

 

Was not meant as any insult to survivors...  Please be careful, if you look for offense, you will always find it

Any castigation of BSA is deserved given the track record.  Ton of bricks, bad juju, heavy hand, iron rod, righteous sentence...choose any phrase you wish.

14 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

Yes and registered. 

OK, then find another adult to go camping and offer it up.  Even if you only get two Scouts, go hang out in the woods!

2 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

Absolutely! I actual volunteer with the Feeder Pack but I never did Scouting growing up so I have no idea what all I should be expecting or how things work at the Troop Level. 

Have you complete the Youth Protection Training online??

They cannot unload Summit...half a billion dollars in debt 😜

7 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

They talked about doing a campout yesterday, but there wasn't much interest from the troop. Before that, I'm not sure when the last time they went camping is and don't want to speculate and make it seem like they are inactive out of ignorance. 

Are you willing to be an adult leader to take them camping?

A second in-depth look at this...

BSA is about to face the next excrement wave just as they see the light at the end of the tunnel on bankruptcy proceedings.

1 hour ago, OaklandAndy said:

I understand that it can be worked on simultaneously. 

Yes, all at once, unless specifically required to be sequential, like the fitness stuff.

So, you can help your Scout by

1) asking him if he would like to earn ranks (try not to impose your own sense of performance, accomplishment, and achievement); if he wants to earn, then he has to learn.  That is absolutely the best when self-motivated, not imposed by others (you, Troop leadership, etc.)

2) if #1 is a "yes", then just review the Scout requirements with him, and let him pick one that he wants to do and learn first.  Show him that the page numbers for those things are listed and that he can find lots of info in the book.   After a brief review of the requirement, DO!!!!  (according to the book)  If you don't understand something, come here and ask 😛  [Wanna be an awesome Scouter Dad?  Get your own copy of the Scout Handbook and read/go through the requirements yourself!!!  Learn what they must learn!!!]

2A) Once he learns and does a skill, review it with him, then challenge him to find someone at the Troop to whom he can show what he knows and get the requirement approved in his Scout Handbook (signed off)

2B) Once he gets one signed off, wash, rinse, repeat.  The skills and knowledge become more difficult to master as you go along.

3) if #1 is a "not yet", then relax and enjoy all the other bits of Scouting. 

Don't worry...if they are playing games, they are still learning.  Remember, "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton."

Maybe...there is a physical fitness requirement for Tenderfoot (T), Second Class (2C), and First Class (1C), which requires, among other things:

(T) An initial fitness assessment, (T) a plan to improve, tracking activity for 30 days, (T) a final assessment to measure improvement, (2C) 4 weeks of tracking 30 mins per day for 5 days per week (2C) fitness discussion and continuation plan, (1C) another 4 weeks of tracking 30 mins per day for 5 days per week (1C) fitness discussion and continuation plan

So, all the fitness stuff takes a minimum of three months.

I find that this is the biggest hold up for Scouts advancing to First Class.

It seems the unit may be spoon feeding this program in order to have Scouts advance quickly.

I personally disagree with the approach, but each Troop gets to set their own program.

Our PLC has not chosen to undertake this model.

19 hours ago, DallasStyle1 said:

What a great article. Thanks for sharing it. This really deserves to be highlighted.

Welcome!

1 hour ago, WilliamC said:

I'm another refugee from the BSA forum...Hello.

Welcome WilliamC!  Much to talk about here!  And, if you wish, a bit easier to retain your anonymity.  Fleshing out ideas sometimes get peoples' feathers ruffled a bit, but that it the way it must be.

Here's another head-scratcher...

https://discussions.scouting.org/t/please-ask-your-council-to-request-to-national-to-reinstate-the-program-forums/290465

2 minutes ago, FireStone said:

They had to do this. It was a real problem sometimes with a kid not getting AOL and being 10, crossing the bridge and then not being able to join a Troop, it created a gap in their scouting experience that wasn't good.

Does it open the door to other problems with even younger kids joining a troop? Maybe. But the original problem still needed to be addressed. It had to either be this or set a rule to stop Packs bridging too early.

Which, BTW, is possibly another problem worth addressing. I've had leaders tell me we should do the crossover in February. I think that's way too early.

I think you should crossover to your Troop as soon as you finish AOL.  Start Scouting now, go back to the Pack for the ceremony later...

4 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

!!!!   WHAT !!!!!     ....   Different topic.  ... Take the exclamation marks with a sense of humor.  

We always got the rank recognized by BSA in their records before the COH.  Heck, it was part of purchasing the ranks and MBs.  We either needed the paper invoice or the ScoutBook pick-list.

@fred8033 You and your council were following the rules.  Most do not.  Here, buy whatever you want in the store and hand it out like candy.  It's about the money  (you have any idea what the markup is on stuff in a Scout store?), not the program.

Advancement report schmadvancement report....

Just now, fred8033 said:

@InquisitiveScouter ... Good question.  ... sounds like a transition coordination issue now ... a software issue ... Legalistically, it's not an Eagle required until July 1, 2022.   So, do you apply the sentence to a current scout's advancement for something that is not yet required?   

IMHO ... in all situations like this ... favor the scout ... let the scout know the issue ... find a way to recognize the scout for advancing.  the scout earned it.

Dunno how to do the programming, but the Scoutbook folks cracked the code...

https://discussions.scouting.org/t/citizenship-in-society-clarification-for-star-and-life/270099