InquisitiveScouter

LO Repeat after me... Summer Camp at the Summit https://www.summitbsa.org/scout-camp/

LOL... that seemed to be their interpretation. But, correlation is not causation...

And many are still in the grace period. They will not renew, and have not dropped off the rosters yet.

Rovers

For those folks, I listen, and then hand them this official Troop complaint form... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf

I think BSA should drop the age limit. This deadline causes so much unneeded frustration for families and Scouts, and a rush to get it done, cutting corners, and detracting from the experience. If we want to create a great outdoor experience, we do not need to overlay the pressure of doing it for an award you are going run out of time getting. This would also help integrate Scouts with different needs (I do not like the phrase "special needs") who need more time to complete things.

Don't think most would survive the scrutiny...

This is deeply troubling, and indicative of a snowplow parent who does not understand Scouting. Good luck with the parent's education 😜

If you have any old membership cards, that would help. Or, just fill out the application from memory. For those at the 25 year mark or over, they'll get sent to national for checking their records (hence the history questions on the form) If you do have any old records, you could scan and attach with the form, but I do not know if they'll be used. Also, call your registrar to ask for advice. When I finally got around to this task, our registrar told me this: File for the 20-year award first. (This one will have your first joining date as a youth, through the next 20 years, so ending about 5 to 10 years ago, depending on your longevity...) Since this one is only done at the local level, the registrar is the validator. Once the 20-year award is established in your record, then file for your current level, as they will go to national. This gives the folks at national less checking to do (on your first 20 years of status), and, perhaps, makes it more likely they'll process them quickly due to the reduced effort. Do not file multiples.... a 25-year and then a 30-year, etc. Just file for the highest one (over the 20 you did with council) that you qualify for. Again, check with your registrar for best advice. Then, set a reminder on your calendar for filing for your next one. (I'm hitting 40-year veteran status in Jan 2027. 😱) Happy Hunting!

@MattR Nice to have you around the campfire Thanks for serving as a Moderator! The BSA will limp along until it perishes from self-inflicted wounds or radically transforms. The former is more likely than the latter. Scouting will always be a thing. It was a thing even before it was called Scouting... young people having adventures together and learning how to get along in their own little "citizenship" laboratory. Societal ills will increase to a point where adults will realize we need to help young people learn how to replace us. And then there will be a revival. Take your grandkids camping, and do your own version of Scouting. Adventures, skills, and teamwork with grandpa sound like great fun. Enjoy the hikes 😜 And post a picture!

Just read all of Aren's articles. Love that guy! I'd venture a guess to say he (at the least) visits Scouter.com to help flesh out ideas and articles.

Next year, we will attempt a batch renewal process with ACH option to pull directly from our Troop Bank Account. Eliminating the Registrar/Council Middle Man Person. Or, maybe we won't 😜

If I understand your question correctly, then yes, sort of... Paid, but not yet renewed... We have a Unit Account with our Local Council. We deposited the recharter fee and membership renewals total into the account ($5400) with a check from the Troop. We printed the recharter and registrations invoices (the latter was a roster of renewals with costs) from my.scouting Organization Manager. Sent those invoices to Council and asked Registrar to process. Funny, the money went out of our Unit Account to the Council on 16 Dec. (See post above, and I have receipts from council 😜 ) Still no renewals done online. Our Committee Chair and SM have fielded multiple calls from families who got registration renewal warnings, and they are still showing warning in Scoutbook that they have to renew. We've had to calm the masses that everything is OK, and that the Registrar will take care of it. Since we are one of the few units in the council who paid and put in paperwork on time, I expect a little consideration to get ours processed. But, I am not holding my breath... Next year, we will attempt a batch renewal process with ACH option to pull directly from our Troop Bank Account. Eliminating the Registrar/Council Middle Man Person.

And at least one patrol's worth of Kazoos... at close range 😜 Merry Christmas to you, too!

Friday evening... none of our members have been renewed through the Registrar. Perhaps they'll update on the midnight data sync... a Scouter can dream, can't he?

Ask the Registrar to open a trouble ticket with IT support. They can see his training history and will credit him if it is complete.

Meh, most subscriptions are automated. Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc... you set them up to automatically charge. You have to intervene to stop the subscription. BSA's is currently set up so that you have to take action to renew. At first blush, I think this will only cause units pain. Every outing you go on, you'll have to check to see if Scouts are registered. Actually, many leaders I run across don't bother with that stuff anyway... or medical forms, or swim checks, or adult training, etc... They just take kids camping and don't worry about it. I know a unit that had a Scout camping with them for eight months before they figured out his application was never submitted. Don't see that much different happening with it being automated, especially on renewal.

I hope you are right. But, I think the improvement will be just to spread the pain out across the calendar year. Under the new system, every month, someone on the committee will have to remind parents to renew their Scout's registration. Or, go through some process your unit sets up to cover membership costs. A little pain each month is easier to manage than all the pain at one time.

Fees paid. Roster submitted. Registrar is happy we are "on time." Only one of four units on time in council as of 2PM today. Yikes. She told me she has 6 open support tickets with BSA on system issues. Let's see how long it takes for our members to show renewed in system...

Exactly. At all levels... unit/council/National. And sorry for the long post. To quote Ben Franklin, "I have already made this paper too long, for which I must crave pardon, not having now time to make it shorter."

TL/DR?? Appoint a Recharter Czar in your unit, make personal contact with all unit members, collect payments, and use the ACH option in one bulk payment submission to get your membership renewals done online. Do not go to your Scout office to pay. You will need a WFHAS! See below. (This advice will change in the out-years as annual membership anniversaries get spread throughout the calendar.) ------------------------------------------------------- And now, for the rest of the story... I have just gone through the re-charter and membership renewal process with our unit, given the recent changes to membership renewal policies and IT changes to support those in my.scouting.org It was somewhat cumbersome, and the many different ways of skinning the cat just made it complex. Under the old system, units re-chartered and renewed memberships concurrently, and on an annual basis at charter renewal time. Members joining out of this cycle paid a pro-rated membership fee for the remainder of the current charter year, and then joined the established annual cycle. With this process, the unit collected and paid a bulk fee for the annual, and members joining off-cycle either paid a fee at the office, or the unit paid their fee at the office on their behalf. Under the new system, charter and memberships are de-linked. The unit re-charters annually, and members renew annually, but separately, based on their "joining" date. This creates an order where first, you must re-charter the unit, and then, you must fill that unit with renewed members. And there is no more pro-ration of membership fees. The charter renewal was straight forward: 1) Check your adults to see if their YPT is good for three months past charter renewal date (that might just be our council policy). 2) Once good, select to either pay on line though credit card (with % convenience fee) or ACH (with flat fee), or print the charter renewal and deliver to Scout office with $100 for charter renewal. This is all fine and good if you have been working to have your adult roster positions correct, for at least the minimum five for charter: COR, CC + 2MC, SM. (Of course, you could fill the five positions with four bodies, if COR double-hats as a Committee Member.) Then, you can renew memberships in separate processes... here's where things got messy. National, apparently wanting to give more choice and options for membership renewal, now has several different options for renewing a membership: 1 & 2. You can renew your own (or your Scout's) membership online via credit card (with convenience fee) or ACH (flat fee.) 3. Individuals can renew their own memberships down at the Scout office without convenience fees. 4 & 5. Unit can renew memberships online via credit card (with convenience fee) or ACH (flat fee.) (The unit can do these in batches, and pay the additional fees for each batch, too!) 6. Unit can pay for selected members or all down at the Scout office, with no convenience fees except the time it takes you to do this. 7. A hybrid of all the above. With these conditions in place, here is what has happened in our unit. 1. After the changes were announced, our Committee decided (back in Sept) to let everyone, leaders and families, go it alone, and pay their own memberships by whatever means they chose. (Option 1 or 2 above) This was the path of least resistance for the Committee, or so they thought. In my book, it was a different word. 2. Our own internal longstanding policy is that the unit will pay for leaders' memberships, insofar as they continue to serve on the front lines with our Scouts. If you want to be a Unit Scouter Reserve and have no commitments for unit camping or Committee service, you pay your own way. This has worked well. When the Committee announced everyone pays for themselves, a few unit leaders made the decision not to continue. (They did not want to volunteer their time and pay $70 for the privilege.) The Committee then re-visited the issue in November and said, OK, we have the money, let's swap horses and pay for unit leaders, and we'll reimburse those who already paid. Now the unit is actually paying more in the end because of convenience fees. But, they assigned no one to work this issue and handle the payments. 3. Parents are ignoring emails or notices from National, especially around now (holiday time) with prices and bills the way they are. Online renewals for Scouts were minimal (about 15% take rate). As of last Monday, 09 December, with 15 December as our council-requested deadline for charter renewal to be able to process by end-of year, I visited with the Committee and asked them if the charter was done and how many Scouts were going to be back next year, I was greeted with classic deer-in-the-headlights looks. No one was taking care of the charter. No one had polled, or asked, or even invited Scouts to be in the unit next year. No personal touch to families... After an email from the Committee Chair, they were relying on notices from National and Council to spur folks into renewal. One Committee Member noted that there is a grace period of two months after charter renewal for families to renew. OK, I said, who is going to remind the families to do this, given they are already ignoring notices? "We'll look at that then." OK, I said, will we take Scouts camping during the grace period if they have not renewed? Has Council said they'll be covered by supplemental insurance while in the grace period? And who will look at that then? A second DITHLL. I asked the Committee members there if they had renewed their own memberships, or their Scouts. Seven people around the table with 10 total Scouts in the Troop.... zero had taken any action. This did not give me a good outlook on the fate of the Troop. "May I take care of the task?" Then I got the WFHAS! look ("We finally have a sucker!") (btw, I am not a Committee Member) 4. I picked up my crayons and took to the task. I personally contacted every leader and every parent. (Approximately 75 people.) Some were not aware... head in the sand. Some kind of understood they had to do something, but ignored. Some were on the fence. And some had been keeping their "bad" news to themselves. We are losing eight leaders and 15 Scouts next year. We could have/should have kept four of those leaders and 10 of those Scouts. The remaining five Scouts were age-outs this year (2), moved (1) or lost interest early in the year (2). Of the 10 we should have kept, five were Eagle Scouts who will turn 18 next year. Their parents cited a few reasons... too much to pay ($160 just for National and Council fees), preparing for college, jobs, other commitments, etc. Traditionally, we have kept those Scouts on. Mostly, I think, out of their sense of loyalty to the Troop. I perceive that is going away... We will have one Scout who holds Eagle rank when 01 Jan rolls around. 5. As I was talking with parents, many assumed that since their Scout had monies on Scout Accounts with the Troop, sufficient to cover their costs, that the Troop was just "going to take care of it." They had ignored or otherwise had not read the Committee Chair's email from Sept notifying them of membership renewal changes. This did not surprise me one bit. So, I went back to the CC with that question, and, got the green light to pay for membership renewal for Scouts out of the Troop account if they had monies, at the same time when I submitted the leader renewal roster and payment. 6. So after making my list and checking it twice, I went into the instructions and IT tools to make it happen. Instructions from National and Council contradicted each other in some cases, so I had to run tests of the system to create and delete membership renewals to figure it out. It's pretty clunky, and what you need isn't there. You cannot do anything with multiple memberships ("Gonna have to deal with that later was the Registrars answer). You cannot select or unselect Scout Life subscriptions unless you pay online, which we aren't. Some parents have gone in and initiated a renewal, but never made payment. Unit Key 3 and Delegates cannot cancel those out. The Registrar says all those have to be canceled out before we pay for the Scout at the office, and it has to be done by the parent who initiated it. There are a few other glitches and gotchas... I am ready to take us across the finish line at the Scout office tomorrow. (Oh God, do I feel sorry for those folks who live hours away from the Scout office!) I'll let you know how it goes... A lingering question: With your charter being de-linked from membership renewal, if you do not have your roster straight, and you re-charter, but some of those primary positions do not renew, do you have a unit? Meanwhile, National will renew memberships into this malformed unit. What happens when someone notices there are Scouts in a unit without the required number of active/renewed adult memberships to form that unit? Well, National & Council will have their membership money, and we'll sort it out, I guess. A lingering thought: I ask myself 'Why all this contortion?" and the simplest answer I can come up with is that National is automating to the final goal of eliminating the Council Registrar. I am all for automating tasks, when possible. But, in all my days, whenever I had ANY problem, it was always the Council Registrar who worked the issue to serve our units. Anyone trying to get answers from National or help on most IT issues these days is just crying into the wilderness. The one group who is making Scoutbook go is the Scoutbook Users Advisory Council... a group of volunteers. BSA, if you don't take care of people, they will vote with their feet. Can you not see this is what has been happening to your membership these last few years? Expect your numbers to drop even sharper now.

Agreed. Some hold this issue as black and white. I respect their position. I hold it as grey, and I am comfortable operating in "my" grey area on this one. Until IRS makes a definitive ruling (and council stops giving us checks for Scouts), that is 😜

Yes. Our unit does our own fundraiser. We also advertise to our Scouts that they can participate in the council popcorn fundraiser with online sales. For those that participate, at the end of the fundraiser, the council gives us a check, with a list of the Scouts participating and how much is allocated to each Scout. We deposit it in the unit fund and credit their Scout accounts in Scoutbook. We have a Scout who did this for his first two years with us. He has not had to pay a single cent for any Scout-related costs, and has plenty of coin left to take him through his next few years. He has learned the value of getting out there and earning his way. And he fully understands that any fundraised money left over when he leaves the Troop goes to the general Troop fund, or is disbursed, as he wishes, to Scouts in the Troop who might need a little assistance.

Thanks @Tron I have also had these discussions with others many time. Two key points in the letter you cited: "Accordingly, we are not ruling definitively at this time. " "The information provided here cannot be relied upon as a ruling on the matters discussed. " So, I take it all with some grains of salt to season my food for thought... We do Scout accounts, and we allocate back to Scouts a portion of their sales proceeds to use to pay their Scouting costs. But the majority of what they earn goes to the Troop kitty to pay for Troop-level costs that benefit everyone.

Yes, potential. And you have hit on the great failing of the professional side of the organization. Integrity, service, and excellence should be the mantra for BSA. It isn't. Would that it were so. When I served, there was a strong push on core values: CORE VALUES The common bond that unifies us all. We live and serve with a commitment to three core values. INTEGRITY FIRST An Airman is a person of integrity, courage and conviction. They must be willing to control their impulses and exercise courage, honesty and accountability in order to do what is right even when no one is looking. SERVICE BEFORE SELF An Airman’s professional duties take precedence over personal desires. Every Airman is expected to have the discipline to follow rules, exhibit self-control and possess respect for the beliefs, authority and worth of others. EXCELLENCE IN ALL WE DO An Airman strives for continual improvement in self and service in order to propel the Air Force further and to achieve greater accomplishment and performance for themselves and their community.