Mrjeff

I'm just the OA Advisor for the Council.   The SE is very supportive and helpful with our events, in fact over the past couple of years I've gotten to know him well and consider him a friend.  I am also blessed in that I have a good relationship with all of our professionals including our long time camp ranger who is also a friend.  I realise that I am very fortunate and I wish y'all could have the same relationship.  God Bless and Scout On!

My issue with patches is when using a licensed vendor the patch must be approved by some patch nazi and that$@& never approves the design.  I'm going to find a patch maker who doesn't need approval from the Viermach. 

Does anyone remember or consider the OA election process.  Here is a guick review:  Election teem contacts leader, teem goes to unit meeting, SCOUTMASTER PROVIDES A LIST OF ELIGIBLE CANDIDATES to the election teem, election is held.  Its up to the SM who is eligible for election.  Its all up to the honesty, integrity,  knowledge, interpretation and spirit of the SM or Advisor as to what to count or not count.

Does anyone remember or consider the OA election process.  Here is a guick review:  Election teem contacts leader, teem goes to unit meeting, SCOUTMASTER PROVIDES A LIST OF ELIGIBLE CANDIDATES to the election teem, election is held.  Its up to the SM who is eligible for election.  Its all up to the honesty, integrity,  knowledge, interpretation and spirit of the SM or Advisor as to what to count or not count.

I recall a young DE that was at everything. He was especially blessed because his wife was right there with him.  We recently crossed paths about 40 years later.  He had a successful BSA career and is now retired.  Thank heavens for guys like that!

One certenly does not "mess in your own nest"  because it is a career for many.  The BSA couldn't afford to pay me for what I contribute, but that's OK because like most I don't do it for the money.

My friend, I have always said that the job of being a Scoutmaster is the toughest job in Scouting.  If everything goes well its because someone else did a good job;  but, if it all goes wrong the Scoutmaster is the one to blame.  Congratulations and thank you for tackling this challenging but rewarding job.  God bless!

I understand, but I  have had the privilege of working with two fine Council Executives.  They are fine individuals and it is/has been a pleasure working with them.  For these two guys I don't mind hoop jumping or swinging by h@[[ if they need anything.   They know that all they need to do is call and I'll be right there.  

I love Scouting and everything that goes with it.  I've been around since 1971 and have really enjoyed most of it.  But, the bad parts are/were really bad and I absolutely hate the bad parts.  I was offered a DE position and immediately declined because I love Scouting and I don't always agree with status quo.  If the day ever comes where I have had enough all I have say is KMA and just go home.  It would be much harder if I relied on the BSA to butter my bread.  I have respect and admiration for our professionals and will stand by these men and women all the way, and they all know that.

I have only had one instance where a DE overstepped his bounds and thought he needed to micro manage the Course Director. The Course Director finally told the DE, "you pay the bills, I'll take care of the rest."  After that, everything was fine.

I'm a retired military guy too.  In the military, or any other beurocracy, there is a clear and defined hierarchy.   Unless you're at the top of the heap, you have to do what you're told to do weather or not you agree or want to do it.  If you don't you are subject to loose your position, money, or in some cases, your freedom.   So you work hard and do what you're told so that you can move up, tell other people what to do and have fewer people telling you what to do.  And, the higher you climb the less you have to worry about loosing your money or freedom.  In Scouting many people like to climb up a precieved hierarchy which really doesn't exist.  Then they think that they get to tell other people what to do and expect them to toddle of and do it.  This usually doesn't work out because no matter how high you climb, the "underlings" can tell you to kick rocks and there is nothing you can do about it.  So, the real challenge is to get folks what you want them to do by convincing them that they want to do it.  This is why what works in the professional world does not work as well in Scouting.  It takes an entirely different skill set to be a successful scouter then it takes to be successful in business.  Leadership isn't the same as being in command or being a boss and I think that the BSA would be better if they quit looking at leaders of industry to head up boards, committees, or other important sounding stuff and look toward the folks who do this " for fun".

51 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

You have got to be kidding me!!!  Surely it wasn't that egregious??

No, it really happened.  Granted, he was active, a good kid and was well liked.  But, he had not completed the Eagle requirements, the paperwork was falsified,  he was not eligible for consideration  for Eagle and he is not an Eagle Scout.  Had I been involved this would not have taken place!!!!!

Well, you have two choices............acknowledge that he got his book signed, have the conference and send him on his way.  Reward him for showing up and breathing and certenly don't hurt his feelings or get him upset.  Or stand your ground,  let him complain and get hurt feelings and ensure he earns his rewards without compromise or shortcuts.  I know exactly what I would do.

Whoever it needs to be addressed by isn't the issue.  The issue is an attitude that no one should ever be disappointed or sad.  So to keep this from happening everybody passes everything all the time.  This isn't just true in Scouting, it's common in everything, except maybe football.  As far as Scouting goes if a kid can't tie a few knots, put up a tent, build a fire or preform a little basic first aid they should never be awarded the First Class.  If a kid sits in a Merit Badge session at a Merit Badge University and just breaths the air, they don't get the merit badge.  But then little Timmy gets upset and tells mom or dad who call the office and cause a STINK, and all of a sudden Timmy gets the merit badge.  Timmy then learns that if you shout loud enough and stamp your feet you get what you want even if you don't deserve it.  Or a young person  plans a great Eagle project that is completed mainly by the parents.  This does not satisfy the requirement but the Eagle BOR passes them.   Sorry folks, but this devalues the whole thing for everybody else.  How about a Troop Committee administratively presenting merit badges to a 17 year old kid allowing him to earn Eagle before he turned 18?  Unbelievable, dishonest, unethical, just plane wrong,  diminished the value for Eagles everywhere?  Yes yes yes and yes, but it happened!  If I had been involved in that I would have no no no, that young man would NOT HAVE BEEN AWARDED EAGLE, no matter how sad, mad or disappointed he and his parents were.

I really think it's comical when someone talks about firing a Scouter.  I know of an employee suggested that a District Commissioner be fired.  At the time the Commissioner made up the "District Key 1" and had the support of the Council Executive.  This simple suggestion caused that employee to loose the trust and confidence of the other volunteers and caused him more problems then he could even imagine.   The political parties could learn something about politics by looking at the Boy Scouts 🤔🤫😉

Many years ago part of the Wood Badge curriculum included defining leadership and the various leadership styles that are used in Scouting and everywhere else.  Leadership and management both involve getting people to do what you want them to do, period.  (This is simply a bare bones definition and not intended to create a huge discussion.)  I had the opportunity to converse with some important national level Scouters and was introduced to an incoming Grand Poo-Ba of something or other.  Someone made the comment that this in-comer had been in charge of a large company and certenly could manage his Scouting whatever.  The in-comer then smiled but didn't reply.  While in control of the company he was able to control his employees because if they didn't do what he said, he could terminate them and cut off their money, that simple.  If you can control someone's money or freedom you can control people and get them to do what you want them to do.  This does not qualify him as an expert on Scouting or demonstrate his ability to succeed.   Most Scouters are volunteers and pay for the privilege of volunteering.  This in turn requires special skill and knowledge to be successful in Scouting.  As volunteers don't rely on Scouting for their livelihood and can just walk away at anytime.  So, I would suggest that success in business does not equate with success in Scouting and running a company shouldn't be a requirement for an appointment to Grand Poo-Pa of the big whig board or committee.

I think we're all on the same page.  If a kid doesn't have any Scout skills they should never be permitted to advance to first class.  I also don't think that sewing a troop librarian patch on the sleeve doesn't meet the leadership requirement.  That's not saying that if a kid becomes the librarian,  jumps on it, takes charge of the troop library and does a good job, he or she deserves the credit.  If they don't they don't and this can be evaluated at the board.

I'm just not a fan of the idea that everybody gets credit for everything and everybody succeeds.   I believe that jf a candidate for anything is allowed to progress no matter how hard or little they work, or claim completion for tasks that were compled by someone else (ie. mom or dad) they don't deserve to progress.  If they are allowed they lessen the value of the accomplishment for everyone else.

OK......so it's not acceptable for someone to be turned down for advancement at the BOR.  Then why have one in the first place.  We're not talking about a child were talking about someone who aspires to be a Life Scout. But, if everybody gets a trophy and a first place ribbon for showing up, so be it, but I don't like it.  This is the very reason there are Eagle Scouts who can't light a lantern, or heaven forbid they had to change a mantle.  This is also how so many Scouts strut around with every merit badge and earned them in two years.  Its OK for a kid to be stressed at a BOR........thats how they prepare for their future.  It really helps with job or promotion interviews.   That's my opinion.

In my understanding you are correct and the CC is not putting the kids first. I think some volunteers are in their position because they believe they are in charge and can boss people about.  They focus on authority rather then their responsibility to every kid in the unit.

That is probably the best solution.   Scouting is a great thing in a lot of ways, but some folks are full of self importance and ego.  If you keep the kids first I think you'll be just fine.  Best wishes and God bless.

Keep in mind that the Pack exists for the kids.  But, the grown folk need to have fun too, because negativity spreads like cancer.  If your boy is enjoying it and likes the other guys you may consider stepping back and let him enjoy the pack.

Making sure that someone doesn't hit their head on a pipe, slip on a wet floor or has an eyewash handy isn't close to being responsible for a group of people on a firing line or during dynamic firearms training.  I agree that there is always an identifiable abuse but unless an act was intentional, its an accident.

You asked, or at least enquired so I provided!  Safety, responsibility, duties and specific roles and duties?  Yea, I do have a clue, and it was still an accidental discharge.

If you read carefully I said that I wasn't going to state my creds .  14 years Marine Corps, primary marksmanship instructor, coach, rso and rangemaster, instructed m-16, shotgun and pistol, expert rifle and pistol and hand grenade. 14 years in law enforcement, master marksman pistol,, state certified firearms instructor for pistol, rifle,, shotgun and automatic weapons, rangemaster, instructor, coach, safety officer.  Boy Scouts, shotgun, rifle, and handgun instructor.  Range Master, RSO, coach, instructor.  But hey, you are correct🤪