Mrjeff

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

As someone who was  ready to cite your credentials, I still find it interesting you continue choose the word accidental. 
 

Here is a good article that covers the topic. 
 

https://www.nrafamily.org/content/how-to-avoid-negligent-discharges-2/

I'm not sure if the duties and responsibilities of individuals administering any range are clear.  You keep adding to what I said.  Never said good enough, the Range Safety Officer has one job and one job only, and I would encourage you to research that, and it's not management.  I believe that until someone has the chance to function as a real range master and experiences all of the moving parts, they really dont......

I'm not sure if the duties and responsibilities of individuals administering any range are clear.  You keep adding to what I said.  Never said good enough, the Range Safety Officer has one job and one job only, and I would encourage you to research that, and it's not management.  I believe that until someone has the chance to function as a real range master and experiences all of the moving parts, they really dont......

Ok, so answer the questions with definitive answers.  No one said there was no RSO, but one RSO can't do everything.

Ok, let's keep guessing.  Why was someone down range when the range was hot; was the range hot;  what does "unsupervised" mean; why didn't someone or anyone shout "cease fire";  were there any coaches there; was there a range master there; was there a designated RSO;  were the participants Boy Scouts, Venture Scouts or Explorers; who, when, and how was the rifle loaded; were safety blocks available and in use;  did the RSO have any additional responsibilities?  Just looking at these details, any of which COULD have prevented this tragedy, clearly demonstrates that due to the imperfections of the human, mistakes and ACCIDENTAL discharges are a possibility.  Safety is one thing but supervising, managing or instructing at any event involving firearms, at any level, is something on an entirely different level.

Yes we will.  I guess when someone crashes their car or cuts their hand, or even stubbs their toe its a negligent and not an accident.  There is always someone to blame for everything, I guess?

Well if it wasn't an accident was it intentional?  This was an accidental discharge, short and simple.  Again, I am not going to compare credentials,  but I have been around the shooten game.

15 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

You must have never worked in safety. This was an incident with multiple causes that could and should have been prevented. Firearms of a basic quality never “go off on accident”. Triggers are pulled, muzzle control is not done, and there are tragic results. Not an accident by any means. 

My Heavens!  This was a tragic accident, thats all.  No one took a rifle and deliberately gunned down a young man.  This activity was conducted for the enjoyment of the members of a Scout Troop.  I would think that everyone out there feels terrible about the incident and their lives will never be the same.  Charges, responsibility, fault, who was wrong, what could have been done?  These make fine discussion points but I would encourage everyone to remember that the players are part of the Scouting family, and a fatal accident could happen at any time.  Very sad, very tragic, closely examined...yes yes yes. But still an accident.  My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved😔

I guess we will just have to disagree because the president can not arbitrarily emote anyone from anything.

Sometimes I think that candidates for the Scout Executive position  are done to bring about the demise of a council.  A lot of things depend on how cohesive the volunteers are and their relationship with the Council Executive.  If the Council Executive is that bad the volunteers do have recourse to send them packing.  But that's for another discussion.   Like I said earlier, put the well being of the kids first, support them and give them what they want and you'll have such a following that your opinions are gold.

Didn't say Council Executive.  They are the CEO of the council and does have that responsibility and authority but the council president does not.

Um.....no they can't............check the by-laws and operational procedures.  Anyway, do as you see fit.

Well, I have always said that the Republicans and Democrats could learn a few things about politics, from the Boy Scouts.  The difference is that since I work for free, the whole idea of getting fired is quite laughable.  On the other hand the paid folks have a lot more to loose.  The Council president can't just remove somebody so that sounds like intimidation to me.  Its hard to ignore or dismiss someone who is really looking out for the best interest of the real stakeholders, the kids.  There are a lot of swollen egos around and people will get "but hurt" however if you can get over the hurt feelings and stand up for the kids you will get the attention of the other adults as well as the kids and you can't loose.  Easier said then done but it is doable.  Be right, be for the kids and stand your ground.

Wow, the Council Executive Board members don't  wear long trench coats and carry classified documents in briefcases as they slip through thick fog covered streets on their way to mysterious gatherings.  I would suggest finding a board member and voicing your concerns.   Just talk to them, you won't be tried for Boy Scout Treason and you may find the answers to your questions.

Leave the idea of a code of conduct alone.  Tackel issues with the light of the Scout Law and Oath.  

Actually its  up to the Council at this point. 

I'm talking about Council Executive Board. Until the reorganization the COR were members of the board mutual most don't know that, if its still that way?

At the risk of being burned at the stake I will interject a couple of things.  Maybe there are just too many adults trying to do the SMs job; next, dad A may just focusing on his son and is blind to other problems that the boy is having, including behavior and respect;  contrary to current doctrin Scouting 8s not for everyone, there are rules and expectations and everything is not all about you.  There appears to be influences afoot that a Scout troop is not going to fix.  Three sons and a grandson in Scouting and I NEVER tolerated disrespect directed toward an adult, and that goes for everybody not just my boys.

Unless there was a recent change the CORs are members of the Executive Board.  As the OA Lodge Advisor I am also a member as is our Lodge Chief.  Our board is welcoming, receptive to suggestions, and just a good bunch of guys.  They also treat our Chief as an equal and are receptive of his ideas.  I consider myself fortunate and blessed to belong to such a fine group of ladies and gentlemen.  I would say that if anyone outside of the board has an issue or concern they could contact our CE or a board member and would be welcome as a guest.

Most importantly and my priority, HAVE FUN & ENJOY YOURSELF😄

There's a great old book out there "Silver Bullets" that has a bunch of team building games that don't take much to set up and are easy to understand.  Best wishes with your course😀

Also, heaven forbid, that the kids should tend to their own interpersonal relationships without adult interference.   They should never be allowed to take care of their own problems and should be permitted to voice their displeasure when offended.  Although that's not real life.  I know of one young Scout who was a "bully" and he enjoyed picking on everyone.  There was little adult intervention and one day Mr Bully picked on the wrong kid.  Mr Bully tried to hit Wrong Kid with a stick; Wrong Kid grabbed the stick, snatched it away then lifted Mr Bully off of his feet and "placed" Mr Bully onto the ground.  While Wrong Kid maintained physical contact with Mr Bully, Wrong Kid leaned over and placed his face near Mr Bully's face and exclaimed " don't you ever try to hit me with a stick again".  Wrong Kid then stood up and continued with his business.  Magically and immediately Mr Bully had a change in attitude as he came to the realization that his role as Mr Bully was less then successful and he quit picking on the other kids.  That was a long time ago, but it solved the problem.  Just sayin.

We went from grades and a code of conduct to bullying.   Reading, writing,  and arithmetic are academic and Scouting is far more then accademics and uses a different learning modality then most students get in school.  If you want to restrict something try using the phone, video games or television but not Scouting.  As far as a code of conduct, if those who are refusing to follow the basic rules of Scouting, they aren't going to follow an extra set of rules made up by some well meaning committee.  If they aren't following the Scouting rules then they are not Scouting.  In my opinion an extra mandated code of conduct is worthless.

TRIAL!!!??? What in the world?  It sounds like this has turned into a chest thumping contest!  When people build a kingdom and think that its their way or the highway trouble is sure to follow.  I bet you have some kind of advancement committee at the District and Council level.  At least there is a group that oversees the Eagle boards.   These are the folks who take care of these kind of issues in our district and Council.   These guys, in my experience, are impartial and knowledgeable. They are also highly respected in the Scouting community, and if they come together to look into an issue, their decision is final, end of argument, discussion  over. They may be able to help.

You could ask local cops, firemen, or even judges to sit on an occasional board.