Mrjeff

Keep in mind that the Pack exists for the kids.  But, the grown folk need to have fun too, because negativity spreads like cancer.  If your boy is enjoying it and likes the other guys you may consider stepping back and let him enjoy the pack.

Making sure that someone doesn't hit their head on a pipe, slip on a wet floor or has an eyewash handy isn't close to being responsible for a group of people on a firing line or during dynamic firearms training.  I agree that there is always an identifiable abuse but unless an act was intentional, its an accident.

You asked, or at least enquired so I provided!  Safety, responsibility, duties and specific roles and duties?  Yea, I do have a clue, and it was still an accidental discharge.

If you read carefully I said that I wasn't going to state my creds .  14 years Marine Corps, primary marksmanship instructor, coach, rso and rangemaster, instructed m-16, shotgun and pistol, expert rifle and pistol and hand grenade. 14 years in law enforcement, master marksman pistol,, state certified firearms instructor for pistol, rifle,, shotgun and automatic weapons, rangemaster, instructor, coach, safety officer.  Boy Scouts, shotgun, rifle, and handgun instructor.  Range Master, RSO, coach, instructor.  But hey, you are correct🤪

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

As someone who was  ready to cite your credentials, I still find it interesting you continue choose the word accidental. 
 

Here is a good article that covers the topic. 
 

https://www.nrafamily.org/content/how-to-avoid-negligent-discharges-2/

I'm not sure if the duties and responsibilities of individuals administering any range are clear.  You keep adding to what I said.  Never said good enough, the Range Safety Officer has one job and one job only, and I would encourage you to research that, and it's not management.  I believe that until someone has the chance to function as a real range master and experiences all of the moving parts, they really dont......

I'm not sure if the duties and responsibilities of individuals administering any range are clear.  You keep adding to what I said.  Never said good enough, the Range Safety Officer has one job and one job only, and I would encourage you to research that, and it's not management.  I believe that until someone has the chance to function as a real range master and experiences all of the moving parts, they really dont......

Ok, so answer the questions with definitive answers.  No one said there was no RSO, but one RSO can't do everything.

Ok, let's keep guessing.  Why was someone down range when the range was hot; was the range hot;  what does "unsupervised" mean; why didn't someone or anyone shout "cease fire";  were there any coaches there; was there a range master there; was there a designated RSO;  were the participants Boy Scouts, Venture Scouts or Explorers; who, when, and how was the rifle loaded; were safety blocks available and in use;  did the RSO have any additional responsibilities?  Just looking at these details, any of which COULD have prevented this tragedy, clearly demonstrates that due to the imperfections of the human, mistakes and ACCIDENTAL discharges are a possibility.  Safety is one thing but supervising, managing or instructing at any event involving firearms, at any level, is something on an entirely different level.

Yes we will.  I guess when someone crashes their car or cuts their hand, or even stubbs their toe its a negligent and not an accident.  There is always someone to blame for everything, I guess?

Well if it wasn't an accident was it intentional?  This was an accidental discharge, short and simple.  Again, I am not going to compare credentials,  but I have been around the shooten game.

15 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

You must have never worked in safety. This was an incident with multiple causes that could and should have been prevented. Firearms of a basic quality never “go off on accident”. Triggers are pulled, muzzle control is not done, and there are tragic results. Not an accident by any means. 

My Heavens!  This was a tragic accident, thats all.  No one took a rifle and deliberately gunned down a young man.  This activity was conducted for the enjoyment of the members of a Scout Troop.  I would think that everyone out there feels terrible about the incident and their lives will never be the same.  Charges, responsibility, fault, who was wrong, what could have been done?  These make fine discussion points but I would encourage everyone to remember that the players are part of the Scouting family, and a fatal accident could happen at any time.  Very sad, very tragic, closely examined...yes yes yes. But still an accident.  My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved😔

I guess we will just have to disagree because the president can not arbitrarily emote anyone from anything.

Sometimes I think that candidates for the Scout Executive position  are done to bring about the demise of a council.  A lot of things depend on how cohesive the volunteers are and their relationship with the Council Executive.  If the Council Executive is that bad the volunteers do have recourse to send them packing.  But that's for another discussion.   Like I said earlier, put the well being of the kids first, support them and give them what they want and you'll have such a following that your opinions are gold.

Didn't say Council Executive.  They are the CEO of the council and does have that responsibility and authority but the council president does not.

Um.....no they can't............check the by-laws and operational procedures.  Anyway, do as you see fit.

Well, I have always said that the Republicans and Democrats could learn a few things about politics, from the Boy Scouts.  The difference is that since I work for free, the whole idea of getting fired is quite laughable.  On the other hand the paid folks have a lot more to loose.  The Council president can't just remove somebody so that sounds like intimidation to me.  Its hard to ignore or dismiss someone who is really looking out for the best interest of the real stakeholders, the kids.  There are a lot of swollen egos around and people will get "but hurt" however if you can get over the hurt feelings and stand up for the kids you will get the attention of the other adults as well as the kids and you can't loose.  Easier said then done but it is doable.  Be right, be for the kids and stand your ground.

Wow, the Council Executive Board members don't  wear long trench coats and carry classified documents in briefcases as they slip through thick fog covered streets on their way to mysterious gatherings.  I would suggest finding a board member and voicing your concerns.   Just talk to them, you won't be tried for Boy Scout Treason and you may find the answers to your questions.

Leave the idea of a code of conduct alone.  Tackel issues with the light of the Scout Law and Oath.  

Actually its  up to the Council at this point. 

I'm talking about Council Executive Board. Until the reorganization the COR were members of the board mutual most don't know that, if its still that way?

At the risk of being burned at the stake I will interject a couple of things.  Maybe there are just too many adults trying to do the SMs job; next, dad A may just focusing on his son and is blind to other problems that the boy is having, including behavior and respect;  contrary to current doctrin Scouting 8s not for everyone, there are rules and expectations and everything is not all about you.  There appears to be influences afoot that a Scout troop is not going to fix.  Three sons and a grandson in Scouting and I NEVER tolerated disrespect directed toward an adult, and that goes for everybody not just my boys.

Unless there was a recent change the CORs are members of the Executive Board.  As the OA Lodge Advisor I am also a member as is our Lodge Chief.  Our board is welcoming, receptive to suggestions, and just a good bunch of guys.  They also treat our Chief as an equal and are receptive of his ideas.  I consider myself fortunate and blessed to belong to such a fine group of ladies and gentlemen.  I would say that if anyone outside of the board has an issue or concern they could contact our CE or a board member and would be welcome as a guest.

Most importantly and my priority, HAVE FUN & ENJOY YOURSELF😄

There's a great old book out there "Silver Bullets" that has a bunch of team building games that don't take much to set up and are easy to understand.  Best wishes with your course😀