Mrjeff

I'm an old Marine and I say that I learned how to be comfortable outdoors in the Boy Scouts, not the  Marines! Semper Fi!

You guys are right on the money, as far as I'm concerned.  If the election is conducted properly the SM verifies the list of those who are eligible and are worthy of being elected.  Then the election team takes over and conducts the election.  The SM is notified of the results and the SM can announce the results or wait until the tap out / call out ceremony.  But the SM has the final word on who is eligible for election.

Without going into a long spheel I  would like to say what I know, not what I  think I know.  Our local Native Americans are of the Creek Nation, and we have a long term Arrowman who is Native American.  We also an individual who is an active and contributing member of the Creek Nation and he has an open invitation to all 9f out events and ceremonies.  They are indeed concerned with the respect in which their heritage is used by the Order of the Arrow and are glad that we honor their heritage.   This I know, not something that is just talked about and surmised.  If someone reaches out to the local Nation, you may be surprised about how open and willing they may be to provide advice and suggestions. And yes, in the event that a member of our

The OA is a youth administered group that does not just give lip service to that concept.  The whole thing is steaped in both native american traditions and scouting traditions.  It may just be that the youth like it the way it is and have fun doing it.  The only thing that I can attest to is that our guys and gals really enjoy participating in our ceremonies and they do a good job.  Without getting into a huge discussion about all the other issues, if they want to do it and enjoy themselves thats good enough for me.

Without going into a long spheel I  would like to say what I know, not what I  think I know.  Our local Native Americans are of the Creek Nation, and we have a long term Arrowman who is Native American.  We also an individual who is an active and contributing member of the Creek Nation and he has an open invitation to all 9f out events and ceremonies.  They are indeed concerned with the respect in which their heritage is used by the Order of the Arrow and are glad that we honor their heritage.   This I know, not something that is just talked about and surmised.  If someone reaches out to the local Nation, you may be surprised about how open and willing they may be to provide advice and suggestions. And yes, in the event that a member of our

I'm not talking about whats  safe.  You have missed my point, some things just don't matter and adults who guess what is best without doing any research or who enforce non existent rules, are over reaching.  

Without going into a long spheel I  would like to say what I know, not what I  think I know.  Our local Native Americans are of the Creek Nation, and we have a long term Arrowman who is Native American.  We also an individual who is an active and contributing member of the Creek Nation and he has an open invitation to all 9f out events and ceremonies.  They are indeed concerned with the respect in which their heritage is used by the Order of the Arrow and are glad that we honor their heritage.   This I know, not something that is just talked about and surmised.  If someone reaches out to the local Nation, you may be surprised about how open and willing they may be to provide advice and suggestions. And yes, in the event that a member of our

Wow, could it be that the group known as the Order of the Arrow, a group that is SUPPOSED TO BE YOUTH RUN is the victim of way to much adult influence.  Adults tend to over think everything.  Adults read too much into things, want everyone to achieve everything, and get "a trophy" for just showing up.  If all of the guesses, policies and rules are put in place to appease everyone,mwe wouldn't do anything.   I try to remember that the whole thing is based on the cold hard fact that kids are involved in Scouting in to have fun. Rules, lessons, learning and value are secondary.  In my prospective, the OA is kids getting together in a safe environment having fun.

Without going into a long spheel I  would like to say what I know, not what I  think I know.  Our local Native Americans are of the Creek Nation, and we have a long term Arrowman who is Native American.  We also an individual who is an active and contributing member of the Creek Nation and he has an open invitation to all 9f out events and ceremonies.  They are indeed concerned with the respect in which their heritage is used by the Order of the Arrow and are glad that we honor their heritage.   This I know, not something that is just talked about and surmised.  If someone reaches out to the local Nation, you may be surprised about how open and willing they may be to provide advice and suggestions. And yes, in the event that a member of our

Sorry.....I f any member of our lodge wants to invite a Native American to any lodge event, they are welcome without questio .  Another area that the lodge can be of service is training.  Our Chief has agreed to help with some of the required outdoor training for adults.  We also help with council camp service days, camporees, and Cub Scout events.  It takes effort, but is well worth it!

Without going into a long spheel I  would like to say what I know, not what I  think I know.  Our local Native Americans are of the Creek Nation, and we have a long term Arrowman who is Native American.  We also an individual who is an active and contributing member of the Creek Nation and he has an open invitation to all 9f out events and ceremonies.  They are indeed concerned with the respect in which their heritage is used by the Order of the Arrow and are glad that we honor their heritage.   This I know, not something that is just talked about and surmised.  If someone reaches out to the local Nation, you may be surprised about how open and willing they may be to provide advice and suggestions. And yes, in the event that a member of our

If there MUST be strict rules in place then do away with any overlapping and confusing mandates.  If 18 is considered an adult, then make the age of 18 be the benchmark.  If 21 is the magic age, then make the rule 21. Quit messing around and make the decision.  No more "Venture Scouts, Explorers, Sea Scouts and OA members are considered youth until age 21 and are considered to be an adult for everything else.  That is just nonsense.  That's just like being almost pregnant,  you either are or you are not.  The whole concept that is in place now is too restrictive and over reaching in my opinion and still requires common sense and judgment on the part of the organizers.

2 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

What's happened in the past cant be undone and the BSA has made major changes, some of which seem to be over the top and leave no room for common sense. Ie..a 17 year old girl wants to go on a trip and her best friend wants to go, too.  The best friend will be 18 during the trip.  Well, a situation now exists wherein a youth member is now an adult and can't "buddy up" with her best friend.  5 days prior it was just fine but now its forbidden.  To me, that is overreach and is ridiculous.   Every situation  can not be governed by such a strict set of rules without the use of discretion  and common sense. 

What's happened in the past cant be undone and the BSA has made major changes, some of which seem to be over the top and leave no room for common sense. Ie..a 17 year old girl wants to go on a trip and her best friend wants to go, too.  The best friend will be 18 during the trip.  Well, a situation now exists wherein a youth member is now an adult and can't "buddy up" with her best friend.  5 days prior it was just fine but now its forbidden.  To me, that is overreach and is ridiculous.   Every situation  can not be governed by such a strict set of rules without the use of discretion  and common sense. 

This may be an issue for the Lodge Advisor.  If the Unit OA Representative program were used it would become apparent that the OA can help the Troop.  If a unit encouraged one adult as the OA Rep Advisor and one youth member to be the OA Rep a bridge between the unit and local lodge could be built that would allow both the unit and the lodge would be able to support one another.  I would suggest that the Lodge Advisor contact the unit leader and introduce this concept. 

I have a friend who is also a life long scouter, and his other job is in construction.  He accidentally cut of part of his thumb with a circular saw.   Sooooooooooo..........somehow his guys got ahold of his toting (sp ck) chip..maybe his wife was involved....and cut out a jagged circle right in the middle of it😉

Hmmmmmmm......🤣🤣😂😅

A long time ago, on a camp out I overheard one of the guys say, "when Mr Jeff is around we use our knives correctly, when he's not we use them wrongly", I just had to laugh!

Thats whats I figured, too!  

I agree Fred, I  have never heard a kid say that they joined Scouts to learn leadership, responsibility, life enriching lessons, diversity or inclusion.  They want to camp out, play with fire and knives, and go swimming.  If we provide that, the rest will come!

As a youth and adult 50 this past June.  That explains the difference of opinion and prospective.  Thanks for the challenging and insightful dialog.  I have a little boy who is gender non binary; racially confused; and totally sociability inept whose name is Jake.  He is demanding immediate attention as he cartwheels and jumps around the living room.  He's fancies himself as being pretty and really is incorrigible.   But we love him and I guess we'll keep him, but all German short hair pointers act that way..  Scout on my friend!

Just wondering.....how long have you been involved in Scouting,?

The Boy Scouts is about a bunch of kids camping out, eating burned food, and having fun, or at least thats how it started.  It has nothing at all in common with corporate organization,  academics or social issues.   I try to maintain this prospective and not get involved with all this cow dung that is doing a great job of tearing the Scouts to shreds. 

I'm afraid that after the reorganization the Boy Scouts will be far removed from what it was in the past and even what we see now.  It will be a culturally aware, sexually diverse, universally integrated group where every youth member earns Eagle and every merit badge, in two years.  The merit badges are all earned on line, and preprogrammed automated board of reviews are the standard.   IOLS and Sea Badge are currently virtual, and soon Woodbadge and NYLT will follow suit.  Leadership is demonstrated by online evaluations, and in the name of safeguarding the children, there will be no physical meetings and adult youth contact will be forbidden.  Every time it is suggested that a scout unit have a physical activity, an attorney must be consulted to interpret the rules and insure that they are in place and each unit must be bonded.  Won't that be just grand?

To me, the bottom line is this. You can't make people like someone else and it's impossible to force anyone to accept anything.  You can't control people unless you can control their money or their freedom.  Anything else is the choice of the individual, regardless how much diversity, sensitivity, equality or acceptance education and training someone is exposed to.