Mrjeff

Just wondering.....how long have you been involved in Scouting,?

The Boy Scouts is about a bunch of kids camping out, eating burned food, and having fun, or at least thats how it started.  It has nothing at all in common with corporate organization,  academics or social issues.   I try to maintain this prospective and not get involved with all this cow dung that is doing a great job of tearing the Scouts to shreds. 

I'm afraid that after the reorganization the Boy Scouts will be far removed from what it was in the past and even what we see now.  It will be a culturally aware, sexually diverse, universally integrated group where every youth member earns Eagle and every merit badge, in two years.  The merit badges are all earned on line, and preprogrammed automated board of reviews are the standard.   IOLS and Sea Badge are currently virtual, and soon Woodbadge and NYLT will follow suit.  Leadership is demonstrated by online evaluations, and in the name of safeguarding the children, there will be no physical meetings and adult youth contact will be forbidden.  Every time it is suggested that a scout unit have a physical activity, an attorney must be consulted to interpret the rules and insure that they are in place and each unit must be bonded.  Won't that be just grand?

To me, the bottom line is this. You can't make people like someone else and it's impossible to force anyone to accept anything.  You can't control people unless you can control their money or their freedom.  Anything else is the choice of the individual, regardless how much diversity, sensitivity, equality or acceptance education and training someone is exposed to.

Affinity groups is just another term for reverse segregation.  These groups may work in a commercial environment when an individual's livelihood is on the line.  If the focus was aimed at the kids and not precieved ideals all of this dialog wouldn't happen because the kids don't care, it's the adults with their ideas of how things should be, that brings us to this point.  Face it, life is in no way fair.  Some have advantages that others don't an this is based on ability, desire, self motivation, drive and desire.  Throw in a couple of doses of experience and add a dash of genetics and you have an individual.  Its up to that individual to find their place because that place is not going to change for the individual.  And none of that has anything to do with affinity groups, segregation is what it is no matter what someone names it.

And please, please, please don't make assumptions or presumptions as to what I have or have not been a part of.  I've been many places, many things, and have been a part of a bunch of stuff, so please don't make inferences about me based on the fact that you disagree.

A fantasy world is achieved when reverse segregation is implemented in an effort to change biases and segregation.  That doesn't even sound right, "let's have a gathering of all red headed men with beards so they will have a voice and be recognized".  Having these separate gatherings clearly sends a message that its just fine for certain groups to practice this and its not just fine for others.  In reality these pore minority groups are more biased and self serving then the majority.   I am braced for the flashback......

Yes indeed, people rely on books, pamphlets,  instructions and rules to guide them and have stopped relying on common sense.

Ok, I'm gonna say this and expect tons of backlash and criticism,  but here goes:  my true thoughts on this whole BSA thing and thats Cubs, Scouts, Ventures, Explorers, OA, Sea Scouts or Yogi Bear himself;  use all that you have and know but break out a big dose of COMMON SENSE and make things work!

I had the opportunity to attend the "Linked Troop" Wood Badge class at the Summitt.  This demonstrated how a boy and a girl troop that had common leadership functioned.  

I wasn't aware the co-ed troops existed.  I thought that a troop had to be one 9r the other.  Has this recently changed?

Yes indeed, this seems like a very common challenge.  I have found help in our new members who are young ladies.  They really seem to enjoy the ceremonies and view it as "theater ".

This in no way incourages or builds inclusion.  It shouldn't be an issue of "if you wanted to attend, you could".  The simple fact that a person is a Scout is enough. A Scout is a Scout regardless of race, creed, .......it's just that simple and to have separate venues for certain people builds further exclusion.  If this kind of thing is appropriate for one segment of Scouting it should be acceptable for all.

So.......in that case inclusion, acceptance and all that goes out the window?  Is it then ok for white straight folks to conduct separate activities allowing them to discuss similar topics?

Oh, and if you think this is fake news, get a copy of the schedule for the OA National Council of Chiefs that was at Philmont.

One question  for the BSA Chief Diversity Officer (I'd like to see what that patch looks like) and I would really appreciate a straightforward answer.  Since diversity and inclusion has become a hot topic for the BSA, then why, at a nationaln event at a national place,  were there separate events for the LGBTQ folks and another event for people of color?  If they had an event for straight white folks there would have been an uproar heard around the world........what's up with that?

Oh boy, now I'm really confused.  YPT, one on one contact, who can drive, joint troops, separate troops, who can or should or may or may not or where to or where not too wear the uniform, chartered organization stuff, who can run a weedeater, golf cart driver improvement, jeeeeeeezzzzzzzz.  But now I'm really befuddled.......BOY Scouts let girls join so they can participate in the program, girls went to activities with the boys, boys had to accept this just because that's the way it is (inclusion and all that),  if the boys of the Boy Scouts excluded the girls it's unacceptable, girls don't want to participate with boys,  BOY that is BOY I say BOY Scouts has an ALL GIRL (no boys) camporee.  I guess that's just a grand idea, but it sure is giving me a headache 🤯

Wowser, in my humble opinion, it's totally up to you.

To the owner, it appears that individuals who know nothing about me wish to give me advice on Scouting issues.  I have 50 + years in this club and have seen and heard it all.  I am a Caucasian,  homofobic male who doesn't care what others choose to do.  But, I don't appreciate other people trying to force their ideas down my throat and make me think that everything is just fine, and that includes the gay lifestyle.  The BSA is a private organization that requires an application and a membership fee.  For a very long time they held true to the Scout Oath and Law and that has been abandoned.  Perhaps I am the only one left that doesn't think the gay lifestyle is "morally straight " and that girls have a place in the Boy Scouts.  Perhaps I'm the only one who will not allow my boys to go away with a gay scoutmaster, and still encourage my girls to be girls.  Or maybe I'm just the only one who will take a stand and say exactly what I  think.  At any rate, I have turned of my forum notifications, so please remove me/block me/ or otherwise remove me from this service.  PS:  It sure is easy to get total strangers 9!$$&@ off,  ha ha ha😅

Sorry guys but you can blast away all you like but as my Scouting career draws to an end so does my participation in this forum.  If you disagree or have other opinions you certenly have a right to them.  But don't try to force them on me because I have a right to have my own opinions.  In my opinion the open acceptance of gays and girls into the Boy Scouts is a mistake that is irreparable.   Good By.

There have been a lot of changes over the last several years.  Some of them were popular and some not so much.  Many veteran Scouters have accepted these changes and many did not.  I wonder what's next.  I heard many people say that they do certain things in other countries and for some reason that seems to justify the changes made in the BSA.  For example several visiting Scouts went to the trading post at the World Jamboree and wanted to buy beer.  They were surprised when they discovered that beer was not allowed.   I don't care if a person drinks beer or not but I am waiting for the BSA to make that change.  Since Marijuana is greatly accepted, when will the BSA allow it's use at events.  I have never walked around hearing "I drink beer" or "I smoke Marijuana" but either way it's not any of my business.  As I remember, when the BSA allowed gay leaders and Scouts to participate a statement was made that there would be no attention focused on the sexual preference of an individual.  Again, it is none of my business.  Then why do Scouts and Scouters feel the need to announce that they are gay.  I don't announce the fact that I'm straight, so why is it necessary for me to know that someone is gay.  I recently attended a gathering where the program included three sessions in which the LGBTQ+ community was discussed and even promoted.  I just don't understand why I must stifle my beliefs to appease others with whom I don't agree.  I don't care if a person is gay but they don't have to continually advertise it, try to force me to accept that lifestyle, or think that lifestyle is good.  I know that many many readers agree but just don't have the brass to take a stand.  I know that this post will probably upset many but many others agree, but just won't admit it.   I hope this makes it past the moderators because this is a very real issue within the BSA.  Don't bother with a lot of remarks or negative comments directed to me because I probably won't read them, but I hope this raises some real and honest discussion.

Things are frustrating and difficult.  It takes much longer for awards to be processed and returned, other national services are delayed, and property is disappearing.   So what do we do? Whatever it takes to deliver the program;  if our local camp goes away we camp in a friendly farmers field, swim in his lake and catch his fish. That may not be easy but it can be done!  Scout On my friends 😉

Oh, I completely and emphatically AGREE!  I have said from the beginning that Scouting may be forced to go back to the way they were.  By that I  mean:  troops doing their own summer camp program; units gathering up on their own for fun and fellowship; friendly sharing of resources;  smaller OA Lodges; less expense program wide; more unit individuality; and this list goes on.  We will have to pick up whatever pieces are left and SCOUT ON.  This won't be easy, but I think its worth the effort.

Right from wrong =`within policy and guidelines or not.  Zeeeeshhhh.

Ok, reality check:  The BSA is doing everything they can to place all liability on the volunteers and COs. There are so many policies and rules in place it's hard to tell right from wrong.  Individual councils are having to provide the BSA with bunches and bunches of money.  District's and councils don't really have enough units to sustain them.  Long time members are simply stepping away by the thousands.  Schools are refusing to allow recruitment.  Positive public perception is falling.   The price of registration, summer camp, high adventure or national events are prohibitive in cost, and people just aren't joining up.  Sure, successes do take place but if you don't view the whole picture and only focus on one spot you're kidding yourself if you think that "All is well with the BSA."  Its like checking someone's pulse with your thumb, you can feel it, but the dude is ded.  I hope that clarifies things a little.