FireStone

It can be done. The cub camp I went to with my son required testing within 72 hours of arrival for all unvaccinated attendees. Most scouts in our Pack went to a testing clinic the day before, we can get both rapid and PCR tests done around here in under 18 hours. If they tested on Friday and arrived at camp on Saturday, the likelihood of exposure in that small window of time is very low. It's not perfect, for sure, but it helps. And I have to imagine that in some of these cases where COVID made its way into camps, pre-camp testing might have prevented it.

Anyone know what their testing protocol was? They mentioned a pre-event medical screening checklist, seems that COVID testing wasn't a part of it. Probably could have avoided this if they did have a pre-camp testing requirement. I know some parents aren't happy about putting kids through the testing. But it's a reality we're stuck with right now. Either we test everyone right before camp or we end up testing everyone anyway when a suspected outbreak occurs.

The funny thing is we have pretty much the ideal opportunity to sell that kind of outdoor fun right now. Parents are favoring outdoor activities over indoor because of COVID, and the BSA still encouraging the same, if you can do something outside instead of inside do it outside. I haven't held a den meeting indoors since Feb 2020. We're pretty good at getting kids outside and having fun. If only we had a National marketing campaign available to us to reach local families with that kind of outdoors-heavy message. Instead, the latest marketing materials and stock photography we have from national are heavy on masks, which is trending out of fashion for parents, especially in outdoor settings. We're missing out on an opportunity to sell what we do best, at a time when we are outside even more than we have been in years past.

You're not wrong, I get it, I'm breaking rules. I'm not telling scouts that this is how I get badges or t-shirts or whatever else made. There isn't a Pack or Troop what hasn't bent some rules. Does everyone here live 100% by the rules of the BSA, every document, every code, uniform code, etc? I know that doesn't excuse it either, but it's just sometimes how we keep things moving, locally, reducing the council or national interference. As long as it's not something that goes against YPT, I'm ok with bending a rule like this.

The BSA was on a path to extinction a long time ago. That path has just branched off in some random directions over the years. The current branch (the abuse settlements) might be accelerating things, but we've been in this struggle in some form for way too long. Who are we, why are we relevant today, what do we offer kids that makes them want to be scouts, what should a modern sustainable scouting program look like? All questions we've all asked and no one, not even National, has answered. I'm all out of excuses to give parents. How many years in a row can I say "Well, we're still cheaper than some sports," as fees go up yet again? I don't have an answer to any of it, and no encouraging words for anyone to convince them to stay. I get it, it's hard to be even slightly enthusiastic about this program today. As for the badge designs, all I can say to that is to do what I do: stop asking for approvals. Use your own vendors, get stuff made without the BSA lording over what you design. I know, not the way we're supposed to do it. But at this point, I'm willing to bend a few rules to get things done for my local program. That's all that matters to me right now, these kids showing up for meetings and trips, no matter how small a group they are, just looking for some fun things to do and some badges to earn.

Council staff does seem excessive. The few interactions I've had at the Council office left me feeling like there is a lot of bloat. That and they seem to not mind the appearance of being a high-cost operation. The office dress code seems to be semi-formal, suit and tie. Which for a Scouting organization strikes me as very odd and out of place. I was there once when the entire staff was headed to the conference room for a big lunch, I'm sure on the Council's dime. No one was brown-nagging it, they had ordered a ton of food from somewhere. The building was recently renovated, fancy new lobby, all modern and high-end, wall-mounted TVs, exposed log beams to make it look like a luxury cabin. And then when they say they'll pay for something for scouts, like the trophies we were promised for the District PWD, instead they give the kids plastic Harry Potter cups that they probably got for free somewhere. When I was trying to get some lawn signs to promote the Pack around town, I had to go through 3 different people to get them. How many people are involved with marketing over there? 50 people on salary and the only guy I ever see come out to anything local is the FOS guy looking for donations. It's all run like a fancy corporate office, and I'm not sure how much of that is needed to truly function but I suspect they could do without a fair amount of it. Other that the person who files our charter paperwork each year and a few other folks, I'm honestly not sure what most of the rest of them do.

A phone is a tool, like any other, and likewise should be taught to be used appropriately. It could have a lot of uses in a scouting setting, but unfortunately many units ban them. And in some cases, as evidenced by this thread, they even cite non-existent policies to enforce a ban. I think we're doing a disservice to scouts to just say "no phones" instead of recognizing that technology is here to stay and guiding them on how and when to use it in a scouting setting appropriately.

Good to hear it went well. I'm definitely looking forward to Cub resident camp next month, it will be nice to be back. Interesting (although not surprising) to hear that so many units share the same struggles and lack of district/council leadership on keeping meetings going during the shutdown. I'm less than enthused lately about many council-related topics and lack of support, so I guess this shouldn't have been a surprise either. My council comes around when they want money. When we need them, forget it. Our local Packs and Troops have held meetings outdoors and done pretty well despite having to go it alone and figure things out. I don't know exactly what I expected from council but it would have been nice to see them make an effort. All they did around here was organize a virtual district Pinewood Derby and then never delivered the trophies they were supposed to get. My Cub Pack did see a large drop in active scouts and registered membership. I'm crossing over 4 AoL scouts next year, definitely the smallest group we've sent up to a troop in many years. Still hoping I can convince 1 or 2 more to come back in the fall. Funny thing I'm most looking forward to at camp is the dining hall. I think we've been doing so many things outside, literally every den and pack meeting has been outside, I'm kind of looking forward to the only indoor part of summer camp.

I don't think that is entirely compatible with the modern BSA program. When BP said that, scouting had a handful of badges, all of which were hands-on-learning/doing based, most in the outdoors. Not a lot of organic opportunities in the outdoors to earn Citizenship badges and rank reqs, Family Life, Personal Management, service projects, etc. For better or worse, the program has evolved into something where advancement opportunities sometimes have to be created, either by the unit, patrol, or by the scouts individually.

I think there is supposed to be a balance, to mix the fun/adventure with the advancement program. The kids show up for both. They want adventure but they also want that next rank badge, and recognizing achievement is one of the key ingredients of the scouting method. But how to strike that balance, what the right ratio is, I have no idea and I applaud anyone who can figure it out. Likewise with the AOL part of this discussion, striking a similar balance between getting AOLs prepared to join a troop, giving them enough knowledge and skill to confidently enter Troop life but not so much that they are over-prepared and then bored for the first year, I'm struggling with that very idea myself right now.

Good to see another uniform with blue epaulets and a lodge flap. Not a common sight around here. 😄

I think that might work but also agree that the SM response might be problematic. If the belief is that OA takes scouts away from the troop, then a scout being in OA, by whatever means they happen to be inducted, would still be a problem with the SM. It also won't help if the SM feels that a scout went around them to get what they wanted. That said, IF this happened in such a way, it could serve as an example of how scouts can serve in OA and also remain fully active in the troop. If the SM could be persuaded to see this as a bit of an experiment, maybe that could open the door for expanded involvement in OA for the troop. And all of that said, frankly, I think it's a shame that anyone would deprive their unit of involvement in OA, a fully recognized and official part of the BSA program regardless of how anyone personally feels about it. If all else fails, I would probably have to encourage any scout in such a situation to strongly consider option #3 discussed above (look for a new troop).

That's just lazy. Chimneys are easy to start with some newspaper, kindling, etc. They're basically designed for exactly that, starting a small fire underneath and letting that burn upwards until some coals are ignited. And it's way more in line with scout-style fire starting to build a small kindling fire under the chimney anyway. I don't know why anyone would use fluid in a scout setting.

I didn't like it even as a kid. And it has never been all that practical for camping. Especially the Cub uniforms with the Webelos colors hanging off the sleeve, the pins, etc. I hear local leaders refer to it as a field uniform, but that's a hard argument to make anymore when there is much more practical field attire for camping, hiking, etc. More light-weight, breathable, comfortable stuff that anyone would prefer to wear. I think the BSA has tried to evolve the shirt into more of a field-style shirt. Maybe we're just a few more revisions away from something the kids will actually like. The uniform has its place and purpose, and I wear it (and ask my scouts to do the same) where required. But as a general rule, I take the summer camp approach: Running around all day, dress comfortably. For less active events, flags, dinner, etc., the uniform should be worn.

I agree with this. I struggle with this in a variety of ways in my Pack. I think leaders and parents have good intentions trying to create the most robust cub program possible, with tons of activities, meetings, trips, etc. But it's exhausting. Five years of that and I can see how some parents probably just don't care anymore if their scout crosses over to a troop. They might even secretly hope they will ask to quit. We butt head with parents who want the entire day in camp to be scheduled. I want time for the kids to go play and the adults to sit and drink coffee. Interestingly enough the parents who want to add more to the program and the ones who contribute the least. So they want a busier day for their kid at the expense of all of the other leaders and parents who have to make it happen. Then we see some of the most active families burned out by crossover and they don't join a troop.

This is way after the fact but for future reference: The easiest Pack meeting we do each year is a Paper Airplane Derby. Bring a stack of printer paper, have the dens make planes and compete for distance, style, highest flyer, stunt planes, etc.

Normally I'm of the opinion that scouts could do summer camp but otherwise get a break from scouting in the summer. The scouting trail can be long, no need to burn everyone out early. Take a couple of months off. However I'm making an exception this year because I'm DL for a Webelos den and covid set us back a bit on advancement and getting ready to cross over to a troop next year, so we'll be keeping things going this summer. A more recent thought I've had, actually has been to ease off den meetings in May and June because my town is big on baseball and it's really difficult to get good attendance at scout meetings/activities. I'd rather slow things down in May and June and then pick back up in July. Not sure I'll ever actually do that, just a thought I've had recently.

Although it's stated in the history of this thread, I think it is worth repeating: The BSA does not explicitly ban fixed-blade knives or set limitations on blade length. On the issue of carrying a knife, fixed-blade or otherwise, that can vary depending on local jurisdictions, COs, Troop rules, etc. With the one exception being that I believe Cub Scouts are limited to use and carry of pocket knives only, at least as it is implied in Whittling Chip.

They make a fair point about the name, they could change the name but still reference BP in their history and founding principles, which I hope they will do much like the BSA does. Although i kind of doubt that will actually happen. Weird that they kept the fleur-de-lis logo, which BP was responsible for in scouting. If they are so anti-BP now, the logo should have changed, too. The organization kind of seems to always be in a bit of an identity crisis. They were a mostly adult organization for a while, then became a more inclusive youth alternative to the BSA, a feature that they still cling to today even though it's not really much of a distinguishing factor anymore. I don't think their name was ever the problem. They want to be a BSA alternative but they don't focus on what makes them a compelling alternative today, which would be their more traditional back-to-basics scouting program. They call themselves "scouting for all", but they don't offer a much more inclusive program than anyone else, except on the subject of a faith requirement. The name change doesn't improve things for them, in my opinion. They say the name has something to do with their inclusiveness, but I don't get it. Doesn't sound like a youth-focused name, either.

Love the new shirts. I kind need a new one, not urgent but with these new options available I'll definitely go for one of these. But I'll never do the official pants. Can't stand them. I get similar green-color 5.11 pants.

Finally. 👍

These are covid-related changes, and they're temporary. The BSA hasn't removed any outdoor components of the program in the handbooks. I keep hearing this allegation that the BSA is cutting out the outdoorsy stuff or that units in the past did more stuff outdoors. If any of that is true, it's not because of anything the BSA is doing.

I can't speak for all, but in my Pack and Den, no, the scouts are not exposed to any gender bias. If other folks are passing along a "boys are bad" message to their scouts based on how they interpret YPT, I'm not sure why they choose to do that. Even if that is their interpretation, why they elect to then make that a visible message to scouts is beyond my understanding.

I'm still not following. How does that translate to "boys are bad" in any way that reaches scouts? Even if that is you're interpretation of the YPT rules (it's not my interpretation), that still should never influence scouts in any way. Those parts of the adult training regarding the gender ratio of adults at any activity aren't ever expressed to kids. How are boys "being told that men are bad" as David suggested? If boys in any unit are getting that kind of message, that's coming from the local adults, not the BSA.

Specifically where is this "boys are bad" thing being suggested by the BSA? Can you please reference anything that suggests this or could be interpreted that way?