FireStone

I think there's a big difference between "face paint" and "face paint that mimics specific tribal designs". And your example illustrates this as well. Face paint itself isn't inherently native american, but face paint intended to copy specific native american designs would be an issue. Obviously red body paint is problematic. Likewise, arrows, hatchets, feathers aren't exclusive to native american culture, but a tomahawk is, or a feathered headdress. My point is this: Are we going too far with stripping out anything even remotely native american from ceremonies, removing stuff that doesn't need to be removed and thereby taking out stuff that made these ceremonies more enjoyable? These things are native american only in the context of how they are used, not that the items themselves should be protected from appropriation. As others have mentioned, I just wonder if we gave some thought to how to use certain things in ceremonies in a non-culturally-appropriated way that we could then also retain some of the visual interest of the ceremonies.

Agreed. I don't think a troop can call itself scout-led if the adults are opting not to allow the troop to have OA elections. Regarding ceremonies and regalia, I feel like there was a missed opportunity to re-work the scripts and reduce dependence on native-American-specific regalia and culture and shift focus to something more neutral without losing the all allure and mystique that makes those ceremonies so cool. Sounds like some lodges went all western cowboy themed and it misses the mark. I think there are ceremonial features that are more neutral than we realize, and they didn't have to get removed. There isn't anything uniquely native-American about shooting a flaming arrow into a lake or painting your face. Obviously things like putting on a headdress or wearing something that is very specific to a particular tribe or region are more problematic. But I feel like we scrapped everything when we didn't have to. Scouts like OA ceremonies because they are different. Kids aren't sitting there thinking, "Wow, that was an incredibly authentic hoop dance and the beaded belt that scout wore was beautifully detailed." They like the ceremonies because they are different, they are seeing stuff that is unique not just in scouting but in general. Most couldn't tell you if the costuming was authentic or completely uninspired by any specific tribe at all. Ceremonies can still be interesting and inspiring without the cringe. It just will take some more work to get there. If a lodge is just going to phone it in and go with an easy cowboy theme, stripped entirely of what made previous OA ceremonies cool, then I'm not surprised that the scouts aren't enjoying them anymore.

It's hard to watch. But it's necessary. The stories are told in a way and with a degree of detail that I haven't seen or heard previously, not in a more graphic way but as it relates to how the victims were impacted at the time and throughout their lives afterwards. And still today. And what the BSA was doing about it at the time. And the lengths to which a shockingly large number of people at various levels from CO to National worked to cover up abuse. Even making up stories about why some abusers suddenly left their positions, but still fully documenting that these people were committing felony abuse, but being let off the hook. It was really interesting to see victim's reactions to some of the documentation from the BSA and/or COs when dismissing abusers. They knew how bad these guys were, and they protected them from any and all exposure, even to other families within the troop.

They had to do this. It was a real problem sometimes with a kid not getting AOL and being 10, crossing the bridge and then not being able to join a Troop, it created a gap in their scouting experience that wasn't good. Does it open the door to other problems with even younger kids joining a troop? Maybe. But the original problem still needed to be addressed. It had to either be this or set a rule to stop Packs bridging too early. Which, BTW, is possibly another problem worth addressing. I've had leaders tell me we should do the crossover in February. I think that's way too early.

Youth members also use this forum, can we please keep the conversations and language respectful of that? Scouting is local, always has been, always will be. And locally, most units operate without any cases of abuse. Nationally the numbers of cases are horrific. But keep in mind they are national numbers, spread over the better part of a century and heavily weighted towards decades in the middle of the 20th century. Today's BSA stands well above most other youth organizations in terms of training and resources to protect youth members. We have a lower incidence of abuse than most other things kids can join, including sports. Locally, I think it would be tragic if Packs and Troops had to fold because of what the national organization did in the past, based largely on things that happened long before many of us were even in the BSA as kids ourselves. What good does it do to deprive the current generation of scouts the opportunity to benefit from the program? Is it just revenge for the sins of the past at the BSA headquarters? And we're going to take it out on kids who have nothing to do with it? Or paid staff who weren't even in those positions when the abuse was being covered up? The BSA today isn't the BSA that did these things. Punish those responsible. Support the victims, award them the damages they deserve. But let the program continue for the kids today who want it. And let us adults who are committed to doing absolutely everything we can possibly do to protect kids continue to be able to do that and keep this organization the safe space that it has grown into for these scouts. I support the victims. And I will stand with you in any way I can. But I won't do that by calling for the BSA to burn to the ground.

I'm not but I'd like to look into it.

No, direct with council, it's mostly roster issues, account issues, stuff we can't even change at the Pack level.

The amount of time I'm spending this week trying to get Scoutbook issues resolved, I should be paid for this. 😖

Our Pack does a winter campfire in December, and Webelos dens have done winter cabin camping. If you have a big indoor space you could try something like a paper airplane derby. And we occasionally in Januarys have done a battleship overnight, but last year we couldn't. Similarly, we have considered doing a museum sleepover/overnight.

It's in 2 places on my son's shirt, one will be covered by rank patches (it's where his Webelos rank badge was). The other spot is where the Pack number was. He's going from a 3-digit Pack number to a single-digit Troop number, so it shows. I'll try to get it out if possible, but he's already a year into this shirt and the way he's growing, he'll need another size up in a year, so this is probably a temporary situation anyway.

They were badges that I sewed on, so off the shelf from the scout shop and hand-sewn on myself. No adhesive added. I might try goof off first. Thanks for the idea.

My son just crossed over and we're debadging his uniform shirt that still fits perfectly well. Don't want to buy a new one if I can help it. But the removed badges left some bits of a glue-like residue on the shirt. All badges were sewn on, no badge magic. The residue looks like it's just from the badge backing. Is there any trick to removing this stuff. Or can it even be removed at all?

I saw a facebook post/rumor that the BSA is possibly voting next month on whether to continue STEM programs. I know, it's a facebook post, far from reliable. But it sounded somewhat credible. Anyone have anything more concrete on this? If true, I can't say that I'd be surprised. But it also seems premature to just do away with them. More likely I'd expect National to revamp the STEM programs. The current requirements, at least at the Cub level that I've worked with, seem kinda of oddly positioned next to the adventurous outdoorsy program we're more known for. Especially post-COVID (i know it's not over, but it's better), where parents have been specifically wanting things for their kids that are more outdoors. No one wants to sit inside on a computer anymore than we have to lately. It's a weird thing to bring kids into Cub Scouts after hyping up the outside adventure part of things, and then offer them the Nova program where the first requirements are usually to sit and watch tv shows or videos. I've also found it hard to stay motivated to encourage the Nova program with older Cub Scouts, when the Webelos program is so much more focused on preparing scouts for troop life, getting more familiar with camping, cooking, patrol method, etc.

But we're really talking about structure within a structure. Within another structure, really. The Pack has it's own structure, dens, etc. We show up at camp and that in itself is structured, being there at a certain time, in a certain place, in a specific campsite, meal times, etc. And then within that we add in scheduled activities, be at the BB range at X time, then we're hiking here, then we're doing lunch, then archery... I think the mix of structure and free play is what works best for the widest array of families. We're not going to the neighborhood park and letting them loose on the playground for 3 hours. Just showing up at camp is more structured than most of the things kids can do around town. We're going on planned and structured camping trips, with some planned activities, but also some free play time worked in. I do all of the marketing and promotional stuff for my Pack, and for several years the slogan we were getting from National to use was "Build Your Adventure". There is a certain free-range DIY element to the program we are selling. If families are coming into this expecting either more structure or more free-range, I think in both scenarios the families got the wrong impression of us.

Another Den Leader made the comment upon seeing the Eagle square knot on my uniform that I must be the resident expert on being a DL. My response was that I'm not, at least not based on that square knot, because no part of the Eagle requirements cover cat herding.

We've been working to reduce meal excess, too. We had a guy who was a real foodie a few years back and while the meals he prepared were great, the amount of gear and work it required of all of the adults was too much. We were lugging heavy stoves, grills, coolers, etc. I actually got a hernia from lifting one of the coolers. Now we do much more light-weight cooking, smaller portable stoves as needed, simpler meal plans. And everyone is happier because of it. It's less work and stress on the adults, and everyone has more time to enjoy the camp.

Quickest way to ruin a camping trip is to plan out every minute. Our good trips are the ones where we have a morning thing, and afternoon thing, and everything else is free-range. My son's first camping trip with our Pack years ago was over-planned. Despite lots of activities on the schedule, at the end of the weekend when I asked him what his favorite part was he said, "Log battles" (2 scouts stood on a log and battled to see who could stay on longest). 😄

We do a Pack meeting with various stations explaining camping basics, setting up tents, what to pack, how to stay comfortable, etc. I often run the "camp comfort" station and try to make it fun for the cubs with goofy stuff like putting on different kinds of hats and having them pick which one is best for the cool Northeast 40º nights we get around here. I'll bring a bunch of random hats like a Super Mario hat, old airplane pilot hat, straw cowboy hat, etc., and end with a lightweight but warm beanie. We talk about staying warm and dry. Uncomfortable kids (and adults) can quickly grow to dislike camping. Make it fun, and have them participate. I've done tent setup contests, grab a random tent and see if a den can work together to set it up having no idea what it's supposed to look like. The kids who know tents end up showing the ones who are new to camping how to do it, but everyone feels accomplished when they get it done.

Thanks everyone. I think I saw "service" and immediately jumped to ideas similar to our typical Cub Scout services projects. And not that those wouldn't necessarily qualify for this either, I just got thinking on this wrapped up in that more "standard" scenario. When in reality, and especially after reading the comments here, this needs to be viewed from a more personal spiritual perspective. I like the idea of presenting this as a question of who in the scout's life could use some help with something, and let them (with their parent and/or spiritual leader) answer that question. That definitely helps. Thanks, everyone!

I don't know why but I'm stuck on this one. It reads more like an individual act than a service project: " Under the direction of your parent, guardian, or religious or spiritual leader, do an act of service for someone in your family, neighborhood, or community. Talk about your service with your family. Tell your family how it related to doing your duty to God." Any ideas or suggestions for this? I've got a bunch of scouts that need to complete this requirement and not a whole lot of ideas to give them. And I'm interpreting this as something that should be viewed more as an individual act of service than a group project thing. Not the usual picking up trash at the park kind of thing. Is that a reasonable assessment?

Is there an official BSA policy on Cub Scouts being dropped off for den or pack meetings with no parent present? My understanding is that from 2nd grade and above, drop-offs are ok, but I can't seem to find any documentation on this. Anyone aware of any official BSA stance on this?

Scouts UK now has a Squirrels program starting at age 4. It's only a matter of time before the BSA acts on the realization that they are missing out on this additional year of collecting dues instead of waiting until they are 5-year-old Kindergarteners. i skipped the Lions year with my daughter. I still feel Tigers is even too young. 2nd grade is the ideal minimum age to start scouting. On the original subject of cost, my Pack does one unified neckerchief for all ranks. I don't require my dens have the handbooks, everything is available online. And we don't require the uniform pants. Just shirt and hat. We've been doing the single neckerchief thing long enough to say that they neckerchiefs do last 5 years in most cases, we have very rarely ever had to replace one (just one time if i recall), they cost a buck less than the BSA ones, and they are custom with our Pack number embroidered. We save each family $45 just by having a single neckerchief.

Kids will often say they'd rather stay home, relax, play video games, etc. My son is for sure one of those kids. But I also see my son absolutely love scout experiences and activities. He came home from summer camp just so happy with the experience, saying he loved camp, that it was awesome, etc. It's not a lack of enjoyment or a preference to do other things, I think kids still genuinely love outdoor adventure and the type of fun that scouting offers. The issue for me personally (and maybe for scouting more broadly) is convincing kids (and parents) to embrace this kind of adventure, to try it, and then to keep coming back even when sometimes it's a little hard or inconvenient to do so. And that includes those times when as they get older that negative peer pressure can become a bigger factor.

That confused me as well. Seems kind of odd to test mid-week if you're not testing before camp, too. Only doing mid-week testing means you aren't paying much attention to how scouts and leaders are coming in to camp, if any are actually sick. Those pre-event checklists aren't exactly fail-safe, testing is more reliable than self-diagnosis checklist forms. Especially when kids are more often asymptomatic. I'm generally not a big cheerleader for my local council, but on this issue I'm glad they implemented a pre-camp testing requirement for all council summer camps. We knew going to camp that there was a pretty slim chance anyone would bring COVID with them if everyone was either tested within days of camp or vaccinated. I saw the camp director have to turn a scout away at the health screening check-in for not having a pre-camp COVID test. It's unfortunate to see that happen, but I think it's a good rule and I am thankful that the camp enforced it. Hopefully that scout was able to find a local rapid-testing clinic near camp and come back in a few hours.

Cubs cannot advance in rank at their own pace like in a Troop. They can only reach the rank that their current grade level allows. So Awarding rank at the end of the year (or some other predetermined time) is the way to go. Adventure belt loops and pins are the method of awarding achievement in between ranks. Scouts should be recognized for what they have achieved in a timely manner, but ranks probably are best left to be awarded together at some pre-determined time or event.