Col. Flagg

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

I imagine a council building has utility and maintenance costs to recoup. Charging for training helps pay the bills.  No free lunch. 

Well it would be nice if they opened their books to see how that money is spent.

When the elite from council and districts get a shindig at the council HQ complete with dinner and a speaker (at no cost), but poor low-level volunteers have to pay $40 for a lousy BBQ lunch for an event, exactly how does that work? Rhetorical. I know the answer. It's just not kosher. Volunteers should not have to pay for training BSA or council deems mandatory.

23 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't think there is a problem with charging for the costs associated with a training. Materials, lunch, if those things are necessary.

Agree, HOWEVER, I have found many times councils offer things at training that otherwise don't need to be there. For example, they charged for one event $40. The room was at council, so no charge. The hand outs could have easily been sent as pdfs. The lunch, such as it was, was the only real cost. 

I also notice a great many of other costs council incurs for the "special" volunteers and staff. These events and retreats, often for as many as 100 people, have no cost to the attendee associated with them. That's what rubs most of us the wrong way.

I have one of these in my collection...

5 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

Your summer camp(s) that you attend don’t allow two free leaders for x amount of scouts?

I know if atleast 15 summer camps that I’ve looked into around a few states allow two free leaders then around $120+ for extra.

A few do. Many don't. The boys don't pick camp based on how many free leaders we get. They pick them based on location, what they offer, travel costs to get there and cost of the camp. Maybe a last consideration are the free leaders.

Point being, volunteer leaders are already paying to go to summer camp (using vacation time from work), then they have to pay the camp cost, then the transportation cost, their annual dues, monthly fees for unit camping (and gas, etc.), do not get reimbursed for wear and tear on their vehicle, pay for uniform, patches, etc. Now someone wants to charge for training BSA requires in order to be a volunteer?

There is a bridge too far for some and this would be it. Thankfully this is not an issue for us now.

5 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Are you able to do this without retesting in SM Conferences or BOR? If so, what does that procedure look like? I think some troops that struggle with scouts retaining skills proficiency could learn from that.

Yes. The PLC builds skills in to the program, beit meetings, projects or camp outs. Participation in an SMC is also considered being able to discuss the skills you have and demonstrate them. It's not pass/fail, it's participating in the SMC...and no one ever fails. If they are weak in a skill you know they will work on it to make sure they aren't anymore.

But to be brutally honest, we just use the skills all the time since we are outdoors a lot. Our tents are modern but still require taught-lines to set up. We don't use pop-up canopies (we use Philmont flies) so the guys still need to know knots to set those up too. We have first aid skills all the time, same with cooking, camping, hiking, orienteering (think: hidden pizzas in a park at night), etc. So these skills are built in to the program. Took a while to set up. Once done it was easy to keep going...just keep the adults away.

16 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

a Scouter doesn't expect his older Scouts to know their basic skills, then the unit really needs to think how they select their volunteers IMHO.

THIS a thousand times over.

19 hours ago, EmberMike said:

So all of the stuff a kid did from ages 11-15 should be easily repeatable at 16? How many kids in your unit do you think could do that?

All of them in my unit. We continue to train them on the core Scouting skills so they don't forget them.

Can an 11th grader forget how to add and subtract even though he learned how in 2nd grade? Nope. So ALL Scouts are required to know and demonstrat their core Scouting skills (for rank) that they learned during their trail to Eagle.

@jjlash, if my district/council charged for training I know many folks here would not take it. Why? Many units already charge adult volunteers and leaders a premium over the $33 adult BSA reg fee...some as high as $100/year. Next, few units locally reimburse for gas for trips and such. More out of pocket. Summer camp? We have to pay to attend that plus the transport fee. Now training that's required for us volunteers? That would be the last straw.

Good luck with this approach. It would go down like a lead balloon in my area. Thankfully my unit only charges $33 for dues and pays for leader training. Costs are budgeted by the PLC and the boys raise the funds to cover. Summer camp is covered for the required leaders; extra leaders pay their way. Same with high adventure.

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. 

I double down on this statement by saying that the BEST Scouters I have ever met are NOT Eagle Scouts. Many were guys who quit at various points in their Scouting career and came back to Scouting for their sons or daughters (Venturing). For whatever reason -- maybe to make up for what they walked away from, maybe to pay homage to a mentor, maybe they never had the opportunity to be Scouts, etc., -- these men (and women) are some of the best Scouters I know.

Not Eagles. Not AOL recipients. No Wood Badge. No OA. Just good, solid leaders who take their role seriously, train hard and work for the boys.

18 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Leaving aside the question whether that is ever true, it is not true in this forum.

And yet we have a "down arrow" feature and people use it. Some might say that the existence, and use, of the down arrow is equally as Un-scoutlike as anything said or discussed so far.

Sometimes Scouts need to be un-scout-like to defend what is theirs. 

35 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Do you run merit badges at your troop meetings?

As a general rule, no. This was defined by the PLC.

That said, we do activities that can count toward rank or MBs but it is up to the Scout to follow-up with their MBC or Instructors. For example, on one camp out we did wilderness survival shelters for fun. Some guys went to their MBCs for credit, some didn't.

Can someone please check in to this setting? I have gotten over 900 emails from the site because this is set to send emails to registered emails by default. No big deal for me because I summarily delete them. However, my ISP is asking if "scouter.com" should be marked as a spammer and sent to the blacklist. 

I'd hate for that to happen because then ANY emails from scouter.com would get put on the google, yahoo and microsoft blacklist.

Can that default be set to X or just allow people to change it themselves?

@NJCubScouter, @LeCastor, @RememberSchiff or any of the mods, can you please ask to get this fixed? Thanks!

41 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Based on a couple of conversations I have had with experienced GS leaders over the years, they have MORE mandatory training than the BSA has.  The most recent of these conversations was about 10 years ago, so it is possible things are different now.  It may also be that GS training requirements vary from council to council - just as BSA training requirements used to vary from council to council, not so much now.

My friends have a different story to tell. Their training is bad and no where near what we get (IOLS, WRFA, National Camping School, PTC, etc.). They have training, but from what I am told it is so basic that common sense covers it in two minutes.

18 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

I'm aware that BSA doesn't allow youth to work with tools. I was just shocked that GSA allows it. 

Talk to a GSUSA leader some time. They can do tons of things without the policies, procedures and such we have to go through in Boy Scouts. However, they'd be jealous of the training we get. Appears they get little to none.

7 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

It's not the kind of thing that is documented and specific. Transfer requirements/ranks have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis by a council rep. By the very nature of the rule, credit for experience in another scouting organization is open to interpretation. 

We're never going to have a document that says "Scouts Canada Rank X Requirement 1a is suitable for credit towards BSA Rank X Requirement 3b," or something like that. But that doesn't mean that giving such credit breaks any rule. 

There has to be a standard or else you have no uniformity. It's unfair to American Eagle Scouts who have gone through the whole program, as written, if even ONE person gets Eagle from outside of Boy Scouts using some contrived, non-standard evaluation process. A standard can be developed *if* there's effort put forth. Otherwise, they should abide by the same rules any US kid has to abide by when he joins Scouts.

Our unit has had several "late bloomers" join as Scouts and work to Eagle before 18. It can be done and they worked their butts off. They didn't get any "carry over" experience despite their very strong outdoor skills. They just worked hard.

1 minute ago, T2Eagle said:

Yes,  more accurately, I don't believe there was a violation to report.

Given the second bit of detail, I'd agree. Well done.

5 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Son#1 was waving a pdf of the Guide to Safe Scouting during his Eagle Project prep talk though he was just making some stuff up. Made him look on the ball...Scoutmaster eventually started looking stuff up later sayin' 'I didn't know that?'.

Our PLC uses the tools guide and GTA, as well as the age matrix, all the time. Copies are brought to the PLC meetings by the Librarian and they actually use them. It is funny to see the kids referring to the rules to make sure stuff they are considering can be done.

We had one well-meaning dad try to take that responsibility away from the PLC, basically saying they should be focusing on "fun" and not "rules". The SPL basically said, "This is like planning a hike or anything else. We need to apply the rules and guidelines for our safety."

I just smiled. The dad got the message. The boys continued.

40 minutes ago, LeCastor said:

Thanks, Barry.  All good points.

And, yes, I think we do need a national figure head to give guidance to Scouters on how to ensure the Patrol Method is properly utilized in their respective Troops.  Maybe he/she could write monthly articles in Boys' Life lifting up the Patol Leaders and encouraging Scouts to make the most of their Patrol fun and adventure.  Wait, this sounds like a familiar concept...

25 minutes ago, MattR said:

I just submitted a request to Boys Life to start that up again. I told them I knew some people that could write the columns. We'll see!

Good ideas but wrong magazine. Boys already know how to do all that, it's the adults getting in their way that's more of a problem IMHO.

Put the column in Scouting magazine. I suspect you'd reach the adults that are keeping the patrol method from truly taking off in their units there rather than BL.

25 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

No, that's not true. She has always been in rogue units which encouraged this nonsense by "unofficially" awarding her rank.

This has been documented repeatedly, but here is one citation:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2196356/why-girl-wants-become-boy-scout

 

You have to live the teaser line, "Meet the 16-year-old working to end discrimination in the nation's largest youth outdoors program". 

How can discrimination exist in an organization meant for boys? That's like saying the NAACP discriminates because they advocate for "colored people" or that the Airline Pilots Association discriminates against non-pilots.

@an_old_DC, thanks for posting these facts. This is what many of us have been saying for a while now. I wish folks would just follow the rules. That's what Scouting is about.

This is why training parents and leaders is so important. A trained leader should know better, as there are always other options (car, grabbing another leader and BOTH sleeping in the main hall in a corner near the adult room, etc.).

Truly a tough question. It could be an honest mistake where nothing happened. But as the events of the last month or so are showing us, what if something did happen and it comes out later?

@T2Eagle, not sure you can convey enough information for any of us to really get a sense for how innocent of a mistake (or how bad it may really look) this really is. I agree with @Stosh to be cautious because this is a BIG issue. But I would seek advice from those other leaders who were around to see what they think.

On 1/15/2018 at 7:54 AM, ItsBrian said:

Really? GS can use power tools for their project and BS can’t? 

Something for your Eagle project. Here's the list. If you were in my troop our SPL would have handed you this when you got your Life patch, reminding you to use it for your Eagle project. Our PLC uses it to plan all service projects so that guys are working in the right service groups.

Hint: Put that in your Eagle Project Plan and reference it as part of your planning for safety. Most adults don't know it exists, so you will earn some street "cred" with them.

Re: Transfer Eagle Credit: Unless BSA has documented and specific rules for such a thing, no one should be given any credit toward ANY rank or badge unless they were in the proper Scouting program AND the rules allow for it. Do do otherwise is violating the GTA.

19 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

I’ve seen the first few episodes of the new season Worst Cooks of America. There’s twins that are both Eagle Scouts and are in my opinion, mocking the program. They are making a mockery of the cooking merit badge (even though it’s not always taught the best). 

As with ANY course or program, much depends on the instructor, the curriculum, student participation/attention, the class size, how confirming prerequisites are completed, and many other factors. We have all seen well-run courses and some real howlers. The important thing, as an individual, is to do your own research, read and practice. This can make up for a lousy course, instructor or otherwise.

As for reality TV, do yourself a favor and don't watch it. Your IQ will drop 10 points with each one you watch. Read a good book or watch something about science or history. If not available, stream Dr. Who on Prime. 

16 hours ago, .40AET said:

Good News!!! Thanks for the update. One of the many great features in TroopWebHost is that the Scouts can login to their account and see where they are in their own advancement. They can also print a Scouting History Report which gives them a summary of everything they have completed. This has taken some of the work load off of our Advancement Chair. 

All the major Scout software have this feature. It has indeed helped keep the Scouts informed, although they hold the answer in their hand all the time: Their Scout Handbook and their blue cards (hopefully at home under lock and key).

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Originally, Venturing, except for Sea Scouts, did not have ranks as they do today. They had "Recognitions, " i.e. Bronze, Gold, and Silver Awards, and "Specialty Awards," i.e. Ranger, QUEST, and the Sea Scout Quartermaster Rank. IMHO because advancement has been turned into a  metric by national, and most Venturers could care less about awards and recognitions, folks at national implemented the current ranks. Don't know how popular they are still.

At a recent UofScouting event a rep from National said that fewer than 2% of all registered Venturing Scouts were engaged in earning Venturing awards/recognitions/ranks. I can't help but feel that such facts may be another reason BSA may abandon Venturing when girls are allowed in Boy Scouts.