Eagle94-A1

So, Scouting has been stressing, me out as of late as evidenced in other threads. Need to focus on the good things to keep me going a little longer. So this thread is POSITIVE, things that you think about when things go south. Or as SGT. Oddball would say, 'Knock it off with them negative waves." I'll start. 1) View of the lake this weekend at sunrise. The sun was barely over the trees, the fog was on the lake, and the only thing up and about was the geese. Wish I had a camera with me. 2) Middle son's costume in the costume contest. He came really close to getting third as the Grim Reaper. 1 vote difference. 3) Friend's son winning First Place in the costume contest. The kid missed the morning portion of camporee, but had a blast that afternoon. He was looking forward to the contest because his costume took several months to make, and he made it from scratch. Everyone agreed it was the best one. 4) Having an out of district unit attend camporee, because the events looked like fun and they wanted to try it. They had a blast and are planning on attending next year. 5) We had 3 troops and 1 Webelos Den in attendance that normally do not attend district/council events. Do not know why they decided to attend this year's district camporee but was glad they had a positive experience. Cubmaster is now planning to attend the Webeloree in the spring. And I believe the three troops will be back. 6) One of the Life Scouts is busting butt to finish his Eagle requirements before his 18th Birthday this month. Seeing him grow up and take responsibility is a great motivator for being a Scouter. So what are some of yours?

Was it Mark Twain that said, " There are lies. There are damned lies. And then there are statistics."

Had the meeting and it was in one ear and out the other. If you try to enforce it, you are the bad guy. Give you an example. One of the Scouts on 3 camp outs now has snuck back into his parents' tent or shelter. Try to correct the situation and dad doesn't do a thing to encourage doing the right thing. This weekend he sat the first nite next to his son's tent until he fell asleep. When I treid to get dad away, I was told "Do yo want me to leave, because if you force this we will." Now I had enough to deal with running camporee, and went to talk to the adults that would be with the troop about the situation. They all knew about it, had no problems and one commented "glad he isn't leaving the shelter, baby steps." I walked off thinking "THIS IS FREAKING BOY SCOUTS!" Had a chat with the SM about all this. He does not see any problems with siblings tagging along. Part of that is his daughter will tag along on occasion. He says as long as they stay out of the way it should not be a problem. But the siblings do not. His daughter has jumped right in and do activities with the boys. The Tiger I mentioned above I spotted hanging around another unit's Webelos, and was all over the place getting in the thick of things. This morning while the troop was trying to pack up, he starts kicking around his soccer ball into shelters. The Scouts get and start playing a kicking game with him until the APL spots this and get the Scouts back to work. When the APL tells him he needs to kick elsewhere and points in a direction wher he could go and not be in the way, the Tiger yells "NO!" and then kicks the ball back towards the shelters, actually hitting it with the ball. That's when I told him he needed to go else where. Anyway, it appears that the bulk of the adults. want it to be "Family Friendly." There is suppose to be a meeting with all the adults to set up some ground rules up. Don't know if they will get any input form the Scouts or not. I am staying with the troop until after the meeting. After that I don't know. I do know that one small, struggling troop will shortly need an ASM. Something my wife suggested, and I have been invited to do, is getting back involved with the OA as an associate chapter adviser. A third idea that popped up is starting a Venturing crew.Out of the 16+ year old Scouts, only 1 showed up, and he was getting frustrated with the younger guys. I saw him away from the rest of the troop and start ranting to himself to release tension . As for the 14-15 year olds, the usual suspects were there, but I do not know how they felt. But I am going to find out. I know when they did the AT, they were vibrant and alive, now bored out of their gourd.

From previous conversations with him, there were only 2 adults willing to camp. One had to bring the daughter at times, the other a Cub aged grandson. The grandson who tagged along is his nephew. Good question. Answer, they have never been asked. The troop has been very much adult led, not youth led. As soon as we begin starting getting on track, something happens.

Regarding camporee, due to size restrictions, 3 troops will be in the same campsite. Patrols will be lucky if they are 10' apart. And unfortunately I cannot convince the other adults to let their kids go 300' even before this last batch came in. Regarding Youth Protection, not only will you get called out, yuo will be reminded of "Family Camping," "Scouting is for the whole family," and the other family catchphrases used by national to promote going coed. Yes, that happened today.

Here's the irony. We have one troop that had helicopters take over. As their son's Eagled, they lessened their involvement to the point they scramble to get a 2nd adult at times to camp. They didn't recruit for several years, and were dying. Another friend of mine joined them, and is very slowly getting them on track. They got a btach of Webelos who had 2 good WDLs who really transitioned them well. The four that joined us are doing very well and no issues. So I was talking to the wife about Post #29. She made the comment that if the current troop wants to become Webelos 3s, I should go to the other troop once the SM steps down (probably between May and August 2018) and work for my friend as an ASM since he knows how things are supposed to be, and more importantly the new batch of parents know how things are suppose to be.

Well it just got escalated. Long story short, an online discussion noted how one of the new scouters is now bringing his wife and Tiger to the camporee this weekend. I made comments about how this is a Boy Scout event, and Cubs are not suppose to be there. Major pushback about how the troop had allowed 10-15 years ago siblings to camp with them, and other major pushback. Noted all the factors involved in why Cubs do not need to be there. More push back. Then 2 other private discussions on push back. One ASM of the troop is one of those pushing back. Apparently his troop growing up allowed siblings and did a lot of family camping. So he sees nothing wrong and thinks I am overreacting. He also stated " you are fighting a battle you will lose." The troop is no longer fun anymore. One good friend has backed off because of the new parents. Officially a second has backed off a lot due to other obligations. But I think he is disgusted with things and doesn't want to deal with the drama. And a 3rd experienced Scouter has expressed a desire to transfer to another troop. I'll be active a little longer, long enough for a leaders' meeting the current SM wants because of all the crap going on. I know he is tired of all the garbage going on, and hopefully he will get things straight. But it is definitely no longer fun. I already told my oldest I am backing away as It is stressing me out.

New one today. So the SPL and SM both mentioned after 1 incident that if the Scouts do not take care of their tents, which were donated to the troop, they could stay under the stars or sleep under tarps so that they could learn why they need to take care of the tents. They didn't take care of the tents. SPL announced that they troop will be under tarps this weekend. The helicopters are complaining because it is taking advancement opportunity away from their Scouts and 'Punishing Scouts is violating BSA policy and that taking their tents away is way overboard." Funny thing is I always thought Scouting was a place for Scouts to screw up, live with their consequences, and learn from their mistakes. So glad the Charter Organization did not take me up on the offer to take over as SM. Heck even SWMBO commented on that, and stated she knows a troop that will be losing their SM soon, and the guy to take over will need help.

These two made my day

My replies in Red

So I ran into an old friend today who is also involved in Scouting. Sounds like he is having similar issues with helicopter parents like my troop is having, except worse. He said One helicopter in his troop has caused a long time Scouter to quit as he cannot take the hovering and passive aggressiveness. Parents also keep thinking it's all about the bling and pushing advancement. Another helicopter organized a Radio MB and JOTA weekened without consulting with any other adults in the troop the week before a scheduled camp out., A third helicopter was whining that her son coudn't do the Radio MB and JOTA, and wanted to know how to go about getting a MBC and doing it locally with 2 weeks notice! Then the mom tried to say it wasn't fair that her son couldn't meet xyz requirements for Citizenship in the World since he couldn't do JOTA. Finally, the helicopters complained that they had to a camp fee for a campout and they didn't know anything about it. That has been mentioned for 2 months now, all the Scouts knew about it, and it event guidebook was posted on the troop's facebook page. It's to the point that my is thinking of quitting and going to another troop. So what are some ideas to help my buddy, and if my troop keeps it up then me too, out? I talked to him about coming up with activities for the adults to do to keep them out of the Scouts' hair. I talked about having 2 experienced Scouters herding the new adults. I talked about 300' rule. I mentioned I am thinking about going back to Webelos after my youngest crosses over, and work on truly transitioning the Webelos dens from our pack into the troop. I did not mentioning one-on-one mentoring, but have seen that done. Need to email him that one. Another thing I know my troop growing up did was new volunteers were in a committee member role for 1 year minimum, and longer if they didn't complete the required training for an ASM. Again need to mention it to him. So, what are some of the things you've done or seen do.

As others have said, another unit may be a better fit. Please do not take offense if I quote you and give my thoughts. Retention has been a problem with my troop, and your post has me thinking.

As I said all indications was that this decision was made at least a year ago, if not longer Heck I would say it was made before Wayne Brock retired as CSE. I stated previously I believed Surbaugh was selected to be CSE because of his experience in Exploring and Learning for Life. And after reviewing his wikipage and thinking about it, I bet Surbaugh had a major role in coming up with this. I bet the the research focused on those outside of Scouting and was left as generic as possible to avoid any hint of this coming out. That's why they have so much info on what non-Scouting families want. And I bet a plan was created, and we are seeing the general overview of it. Problem is that national didn't talk to us in the field about it in order to keep it from leaking out. Unfortunately the higher up you go with national, the less you know what the volunteers on the ground are thinking and doing. Heck when I was working for national I saw that with my Scout Shop manager. Manager had no clue about events, pack meetings COHs, sumemr camp, etc, only about selling merchandise, their field of expertise. And the manager interacted with volunteers on a weekly basis because "I'm in the field." Just think about the professionals in their offices at Irving who only come out at jamborees. We all know that the plan as presented will not work. Full integration is the only way.

Aquatics at night is not allowed in the G2SS unless it is a well light area. Actually national came up with a way to get around this at the local council's discretion. It was on Bryan's Blog a few weeks ago. A lot of controversy about this move, and I am against it. As for running, I don't recommend it in a campsite bc/ of the guy lines and tripping/tearing down a tent hazards. Other areas of a camp? Don't see why not. to cwoefully inadequate.re Regarding Scouters saying they don't need the skills, yep me too. One of the SM's I taught said that to me in person. And of course the professional national Health and Safety Team Leader in Irving stated it was the 21st century and pioneering skills are no longer needed. Guess he didn't hear about the Space Shuttle that had an Eagle on the crew use lashings to secure the robotic arm so they didn't have to jettison a multimillion dollar piece of equipment. As for running, in a campsite there is too much of a tripping/tearing down a tent chance. As for the rest of the camp, not to my knowledge. Otherwise Athletics and many first year camper programs would not be in operation or limited

Agreed, staying mad will not do anything. And as much as I would love to send no more money to national, I gotta stay registered. But as you mentioned national totally and completely botched it. And yes they wasted a heck of a lot of money this summer to promote this only to tick off the base in the manner they released the membership change. But here is the deal. You had some Scouters like myself with experience with coed Scouting both here and abroad. While my Sea Scouting experience with girls was negative, the overseas female Scouts was much more positive. Heck the female international Scouts even stated that the female Sea Scouts were "a bunch of wimps." As for Venturing, definitely had to keep an eye open. Know of 2 married couples as a result of Exploring/Venturing. What's interesting is the comment that one longtime Scouter opposed to this said, "They are rewarding those who broke the rules."

I had a conversation with a short lived pro who went to DE training in Dallas last year. From the conversation I had with them and other stuff I am seeing, I believe the volunteers, parents, and Scouts have been lied to. You read that correctly, I BELIEVE NATIONAL LIED TO US IN THE FIELD. They were not surprised in the least by the decision because Surbaugh hinted around at "making changes" when at the meet and greet. Also commented how Surbaugh never used the term "Boys," and "men," but always "youth" and "children." That commented was mentioned previously, and I noticed that since Surbaugh became CSE, he never uses the terms above. Then came the abruptness of the town halls with their slanted questions. Grant you I'm dense at times. But even I got it. and was ticked off. Then add the "family Scouting" and "family camping" campaign. Several of us pointed out the ridiculousness of the "Camping with the Fam" advertising campaign for Supply, the article in Scouting magazine, and a bunch of the girl related merchandise BSA started coming out with, specifically the pink and purple t-shirts. All that takes prep time. Several months or more prep time. I remember an article on my council was not published until 9 months after the event took place. Then you got the July 2017 applications. So yes, I believe I have been lied to. and I am ticked.

Actually Surbaugh stated 11-14 year old boys and girls cannot camp together. The adults stating that they will integrate girls into their troops said they would use the 300' rule, i.e. patrol camp 300" away form each other, to get around this. And if Surbaufgh really did say this, then what about camporees, summer camp, and jambo. If he did say it, he wasn't thinking.

When you said Sam Browne, I thought you meant the sword belt. Depending upon where I am going or what type of camp out, I will wear a pistol belt. One of the nice things about A.L.I.C.E.and M.O.L.L.E. pouches, they can be put on just about any belt. MOLLE may slide around a bit, it works.

My Troop's CO already has a Frontier Girls. They are extremely small because they only have 2 volunteers, one of whom just aged out. Long story short, there is already talk of folding the FG, having them on paper as a separate unit, but fully integrating them into our troop. I know my Life and Tenderfoot Scouts are opposed allowing girls in. Their concerns is mostly Boy Scouts turning into Cub Scouts. Oldest is also concerned about the distractions girls will cause. We have enough challenges. I do not know what they will do. They do know that at lease 1 troop, possibly 2, will remain all male. I go where they go. I personally think this is the worse decision ever, it will hurt our current members big time IMHO. Thinking objectively, i know why BSA did this: money, membership, external and internal pressure, and it makes some sense. But the way National is going about it is totally fouled up and making it worse. To quote some German I learned in BAND OF BROTHERS, "It's FUBAR."

I remember being asked about about the 3 G's at my EBOR. That was in 92

@@John-in-KC thank you for posting the video. https://livestream.com/bsa/nationalcouncil/videos/164161163 1) I think he is telling some tall tales. Cub Scouts has not been 'Family oriented" for "generations" It only goes back about 20 - 25 years. 2) While I have not been to PTC, I really do not think somoen would take there granddaughter there. I could be wrong on that. 3) he's stated that the SEs were behind him. Then why was mine shocked? 4) He talked about the townhalls and surveys. What he didn't mention was A) you tolded the SEs to do these townhalls the day before jamboree starts, which many attend B) and give a a one month period for council to do the town hall meetings IN WHICH PART OF THAT TIME IS DURING THE JAMBOREE! ( emphasis.) Yes, my SE was extremely ticked off about that one. 5) Only way to take the survey was to get to the townhalls, and there were not given enough time. only 11000 folks participated. 6) says the survey questions were neutral. To quote Col. Potter, " HORSEHOCKEY!" The were designed to get a specific response: allow girls in Boy Scouts. Ok I can't take it. I can't finish it/

This topic came up at my town hall as I was the one who brought it up. I was told by several units who are struggling to get Adult volunteers that the proposed method is NOT feasible and they will fully integrate. Everyone for girls in BSA agreed this will happen with smaller units, and the council key 3' body language express a 'yeah we know this will happen" outlook. The Pros know and don't care.

Not stepping away completely just all the district/council level stuff. Am sticking with the troop my older two are in. Only district level POR will be MBC. Thinking about it, I've been on the district level in one council or another for over 20 years straight, with a brief 18 month unit only job due to grad school.

It's official, I'm burnt out. No, the new membership policy didn't do it. Finding out about a simulaneous event at the camporee I am running with out me knowing anything about it until someone sent me an email yeasterday made me realize I am burnt out. Scouting is not fun for me at the moment. Long story short I am running a camporee. Been on the books for a year now. Last week I started getting questions about Cub Scouts camping and fishing at the camporee. Was clueless until someone pointed out that the council calendar showed a fishing derby. at the same place and time as the camporee. I called to find out what was up and no one knew anything about it. So I had them take it off the website, posted on the district website that it was a mistake, and announced it at roundtable. Thought it was taken care of. Then a friend forwarded the email that went out yesterday inviting Cubs to the camp that weekend to fish.I was furious at how there was no discussion on the matter and how I had to find out. I found out from a forwarded email the DE sent out. I was furious to the point that I said out loud at work "I'm done, I quit as camporee chief." And the camporee is in 2 weeks. Thankfully I was able to calmed down. Realized the issue was a lack of communication, and I attempted to call the DE 3 times over a 5 hour period. Finally had to email him explained why it was a bad idea, and gave him two alternatives, a different weekend and a different location. camp is extremely small, approx 7-10 acres with 1/2 of that being a lake. And one section of the cmap is being used for training that weekend. Another section may be off limits because a bridge that was destroyed last year has not been rebuilt yet. It was going to be tight as it is. Then I received a curt brief reply. It doesn't matter what the other camporee chief and I want, the fishing will happen regardless. I never stated the small fishing pond was going to be used for events in the camporee guide. and that he wished I would have contacted him before posting on FB and at RT. Now my job responsibilities have changed over the years, and nights are now getting crazy. I have already missed meeting because of last minute stuff happening. And I raised the ire of my boss when I told them I could not do an event b/c I had to be at a scouting function I was in charge of and needed to be there. And that has caused a lot of stress. Plus with all the family stuff going on, that is more stress. I love spending time with the family, and with things going on, it seems as if I'm either doing Scouts, Work, Baseball, or the wife is doing school work. Sad that a funeral had to give us time as a family. I made a commitment to the Scouts to be the chief, and I am doing it. But told them I cannot do it next year. Also told the DE I need to step down as RT commissioner because of work. And I hope to give them to May when the RT takes a summer break. And he knew that was coming because I have been talking about stepping down for the past year. So I am making lemonade out of lemons. The response I had was a wake up call that I need to back away as I am burning out.

But what if you cannot get enough interest,both girls and volunteers, to create separate all girl units? That's the dilemma