WisconsinMomma

The name change isn't a big deal to me.  That's minor. 

For the Pack I'm more concerned with whether the Pack should have one Pack and separate boy/girl dens, or a separate Pack number for the girls.   I don't know.  Like would the girls want their own pinewood derby or is it easier and cleaner just to have one mixed gender one?  All the den stuff would be separate of course. 

Name change?  No biggie.

Mission, Vision, Values, Ideals, Aims and Methods, etc?  That's the real stuff.  

Yes, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how this will work in advance.

What I am potentially envisioning:

1.  Girls Troop with separate troop number

2.  Same Chartered Organization

3.  Perhaps same meeting night and time, different room in the building for troop and PLC meetings

4.  Perhaps same committee members and resources for merit badge counselors,  Eagle Coaches, EBOR help, etc.

5.  Separate checking accounts and fundraisers, but perhaps the same treasurer managing both accounts.

6.  Separate outings and events.

7.  Same Committee Chair, but different Scoutmasters, ASMs, etc. 

I'll also tell you that with some people, email is a terrible, terrible form of communication in conflict.   I have given up using email most of the time unless it's simple or I know someone really well.  

2 hours ago, perdidochas said:

They need to go through training.  CMs, DLs, etc. shouldn't be on the Committee. It's a check  and balance thing.  And, yes, parents are eligible to come to any meeting.  

Our den leaders and cubmaster attend the meetings, as most of our committee meeting time is about planning the Pack meetings and upcoming events.  But we work as a team on that stuff.  Parents are always welcome. 

I would expect your council to have records if your advancement chair is doing their job, but given that this pack runs a little goofy, it's hard to say.  But check in with them.   I personally would not sweat over Cub advancement records except for Religious emblems and Arrow of Light, which follow a Cub in to Boy Scouts.  I would expect any pack to just take you at your word of your son's achievements.

Best wishes for everything and thanks for being a Scouting family. 

I'm just curious about the situation.

Was this at a den meeting?   Who is / where was the den leader?  

Is the cubmaster's father  a registered leader?  Why is he attending the meetings? Some of this sounds weird.

But in your situation, I would also make a break with that Pack, unless your Den is a good den and then I'd just go to your den meetings and stay the heck away from the Cubmaster.   Things can get tough in smaller towns and it can be a tough divide between homeschooling and regular school parents.  I hope you find a group that serves your family and that you have a great Scouting journey.   My older son (with ADHD) and my family had difficulty once with a person in our Troop, but that person got out of Scouting.  

I feel you are owed an apology and reconciliation by the Cubmaster.  But it also sounds like that is very unlikely.  So, take care of your family and make positive relationships wherever you can find them.  You don't want to be all alone out there, and there are friendly people in Scouting. 

As for taking it up the chain, that is OK to a point, but don't make it into a war.  The most important thing is finding the right, welcoming group for your son, and making as many positive relationships as you can so he and your family have a lot of community available to you.   In our Troop, there are many waves I could make, but I have to remember that it's not about me and my ideals.  My sons like their Troop and I don't want to undermine their experience by being a difficult parent.  So I really try to choose the things that are meaningful, and stay out of the way on many other things. While I help out, I am not a dominant parent in the Troop and I think that benefits my kids. 

OK, so, my Pack needs to talk about whether we are running with a girls program next year.  My sons' troop, or their CO will also need to talk about whether they are forming a girls' troop.

The Pack and Pack CO seems open to having girls.  It may just be a matter of getting organized and recruiting leaders.

The Troop committee seems to have an overall negative view about a girls program.  It seems that no one wants to mess around with it -- except, maybe, me.  And maybe I know some women I could recruit for a new troop....   

But then again,  I have all sons and don't personally need a girls troop, but it's something I could get involved in as a leader.  

I'm afraid to even bring it up with my sons' troop committee.  LOL.  I expect they're going to shut it down the second I bring it up.  Maybe it will be better than that but it does need to be discussed as this is a major change in the BSA and they need to talk about how they will work with or not work with the new program. 

Any suggestions? 

Also the new episode of Scoutcast, the Scouting Podcast is very good about bringing girls into the program. 

And hey, it's only 4 months to the next election, so this one isn't a big deal, is it?   Try to minimize the issue and prevent the guys from taking it all too seriously.   They should focus on having fun and working together. 

Why not give both boys a little bit of time to cool off.   Elections can be emotional, and rejection can be rough.  Give it some time and neither one is right to try to punish the other. 

7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Not trying to be negative, but my troop is in that situation. only female willing to camp will only do so for car camping in fair weather. She has backed out at the last minute (hours before we were leaving), will not do any non car camping camp outs, and has showed up late and left early.

I think it's very possible that female units will want to camp with a different style than boy units, especially as they are learning and getting started.  Another case for having some separation.  An outdoor activity every month may not always look the same and the boys and girls desires may be different for what they would like to choose, and that sounds OK to me. 

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

So, if I read this right - the scenario is: you've got a unit (pack, troop, crew, whatever) that is co-ed, have male and female scouts that want to attend whatever event, but don't have sufficient female leadership for the girls to attend.

To me, this is easy - you cancel the event for all. 

If you've got a co-ed unit, you don't have boy events and girl events.  The group does things together.  The minute you start saying "the boys can go because we have enough dads, but the girls cannot because we don't have enough moms", you've not longer got a unified unit.  To me that's way worse than canceling an event.

Further, you don't say - "we can't go because we don't have enough moms for the girls".  That's inflamatory.  You simply say - "we don't have sufficient adult leadership to hold the event.

This is a good reason to keep the boy and girl units separate, at least as separate dens in Cubs and then patrols in Boy Scouts.  Then it's more about the den and patrol activity.  Separate units with some crossover volunteering sounds fine too.  

7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

It's a no win situation that some units will be facing.

If you cancel for everyone. you get boys fed up with the girls because it is negatively impacting them, and some may quit. And as you pointed out, if you mention can't getting enough mom's to camp, it's inflammatory.

As for going with Scouter's schedules, while I agree wholeheartedly with that, what happens when the only registered female is not willing to camp? what happens if they back out at the last minute? What happens if they back out during the camp out?

Not trying to be negative, but my troop is in that situation. only female willing to camp will only do so for car camping in fair weather. She has backed out at the last minute (hours before we were leaving), will not do any non car camping camp outs, and has showed up late and left early.

I would think about this as if the girls/boys were separate Cub dens.   Den 1's leader is sick, they cancel something, unless they have someone ready to fill in.  Den 2's leader is not sick, they have their meeting as normal.   So if one of the groups has unstable leadership, the committee works to recruit support for that group so it can function.   Your troop will need to recruit more women for campouts.  

Note that I have not camped with my sons' troop, but that does not mean I am unwilling to camp.  I am not currently needed on their camp trips. If our Troop puts together a girls unit and needs some help,  I will likely pitch in where I can.  

15 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One thing thing not mentioned but can be done now: 18-20 year old female ASMs. Do we treat them as adults and they do not need a female over 21 with them, or do we treat them like Venturing "adult participants" and they need over 21 registered female? Asking because we have a 18 female who wants to be an ASM with her twin brother.

18 year olds are adults.  So you don't need youth protection for an 18 year old, they are not youth.  But the 18 year old cannot serve as a 21+ female supervision.  That's my best interpretation of how things work.  You should verify this with your council. 

 An Assistant Scoutmaster is an adult leader age 18 or over who assist the Scoutmaster in delivering the troop program.

18 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

I think @qwazse and @TampaTurtle are spot on. Those units will do what they want, and with tour permits being a thing of the past, they will get away with it unless there is a crisis of some sort.

Look at all the people applauding BSA4G who say their pack has had girls take part in every activity, meeting and outing for years. District and council professionals have to have known about all that, and either said nothing or told them they cant do that (wink wink)

 

But I think most Troops try to follow the rules and get it right.  Am I too optimistic about that? 

I think the registration of adults for > 72 hours is good. Get the background check, get them covered by insurance, etc.  Get them YPT training, that's good.  It's not a huge fee.  It's a cost of doing business and running a youth program in the 21st century.  

Honestly, I would run the troop / pack as normal and stay out of the PTO's hair if you can.   

Jim Lovell, captain of Apollo 13, is an Eagle scout (now age 90).  The Apollo 13 mission was active 48 years ago as everyone worked to bring the astronauts home safely.  Our family is watching the 1995 movie, the boys found it very interesting.  

Sometimes people make big mistakes or get involved with the wrong crowd of people. 

I think the thing is, if a person has committed a crime,  served their sentence and is trying to re-make a better life,  that's good.  That's what we want, people who want to do better if they've screwed up.  

@David CO To err is human, to forgive, divine.  --Alexander Pope

Oh, you need PLC meetings!!!

Who is dissatisfied?  The adults or the Scouts?   It should be the scouts evaluating the SPL of course.

Now, maybe the SPL needs a little mentoring but that comes from the Scoutmaster, right?   Perhaps the SPL needs a little help setting a schedule for the PLC meetings (our meetings are on traditional days, like the 2nd tuesday is PLC and the third is the scout meeting or something like that).

Campaign promises -- that's funny.  When my AOL den was trying to come up with their patrol name it was getting pretty fancy with speeches and stuff.  

Good job on keeping them focused on the scouts.  You need just enough adult help for the scouts to be functional at a basic level but that's it!  

It is frustrating to me that adults jump in because they can do better. Well doh!  But the point is for the scouts to get some valuable experience by trying and failing and trying again.  

Good luck   -- are you adults perfectionist control freak types?   Hang in there.   Remind them that this is about the boys learning things and getting valuable life lessons.   And the feedback should be from the peers! 

Sounds like they have a lot of ideas on how the SPL should do things but remind them that the SPL gets to have his own way of getting things done, to a point.  And they should not turn Scouting into a chore!   

Hi Scoutmom 86,

I did not read the whole thread, but it sounds like your Cubmaster is being cautious about the situation, and that's understandable.   If the Cubmaster does not yet know your boyfriend/fiancee very well, then give it some time. Attending events together at first sounds like a fair plan.  You have put in time with the Pack, and that is great.  I am so glad your son is having a great experience too!  I think that things will get easier as people get to know your fiancee better, but a slow start sounds appropriate to me.  It should get more comfortable for everyone over time assuming that he is a a great person and there are no red flags or other concerns that arise.   Try not to stress out over it too much.  In my Pack, there are certainly people with strong opinions but you can rest assured that we don't have everyone thinking the exact same thing, ever.  It just doesn't happen.  There should be some friendly people around, but it may take a while to find out who's easygoing and welcoming and who's not so much.  

Best wishes!  Big picture if your son is enjoying Scouting that is great!  Thank you for everything you do to support your Pack.  

Oh yes, I got my left and right mixed up. Long day, doh!    11 y.o. on left, 13 y.o. on right.    11 y.o. is working on 2nd class,  13 y.o. is working on first class.    They have done some merit badge classes together but definitely have their own interests too.    Thanks!

I'm totally just wandering by to show off my boys' updated merit badge sashes, 11 year old's is on the right, 13 year old's is on the left.  

My 13 y.o.did his family project for Family life and has his chore log done.  It's been months and months but he's getting there.  11 y.o. is/was having difficulty for swimming, getting down to the bottom to pick up an object. He'll get there eventually. 

Proud  mama!

I like this.  I have never been to Philmont and honestly don't know all that much about it, but I will tell you that my boys' troop is not necessarily into high adventure and the adults in my sons' troop seem unenthused about putting together a big trek.  

So, perhaps my family, mom, dad, 3 boys wants to go as our own family trip?   That's fine.  It's easier to manage than trying to get it through the troop.  Of course if the troop goes, or if we have a multi-troop thing going, they could join up with that.  But maybe for our family, it would work better to go on the family dates.   At least we have options and it's more accessible to get down there. 

Hey Everybody, I thought I'd share a tip that can help Scouts with the 90-day logs for Personal Fitness, Personal Management, and Family Life.

We struggled with our son on how to do the logs at first and had some failure.  My husband ended up buying a cheap monthly / weekly planner from Wal Mart that my son used to record his chores for Family Life.  This worked better for him than an online log.  The weekly calendar page spread gave him enough room to make his entries, and the book format made it easier to keep track of the actual log.  We will use this type of planner again for all the 90-day log assignments for our boys.

https://www.mead.com/mead/browse/product/TLD385?selectedSkuId=TLD3851018&couponId=SAVE20E&cvsfa=4442&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=544c4433383531303138&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqM3VBRCwARIsAKcekb2Lb9h_DNl1NSDx9gw6ItP6QlgnU6MjqLHMl4P0CEBUJmKSKo7hvrsaAnKhEALw_wcB