WisconsinMomma

It's Arrow of Light, Building a Better World, 6C.  We did 6A when I was an AOL den leader.   There is an annual Jamboree on the air in October, but the date didn't work for our group. I'd talk to member @Cambridgeskip or maybe some other international Scouters here for connections. Good luck!

https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Webelos_Scout_Adventures#Arrow_of_Light_Required_Adventures

Go talk to your Eagle coach and council folks and ask for their help to fix the issue.   This is  a good lesson,  mistakes are made all the time in life, you just address the problem and go get it fixed.  

Great project -- best wishes!

13 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I'm being realistic, not cynical ...

In their rush to make an announcement about girls in Scouting, I don't think BSA National leadership had even begun to think through the myriad of issues such as these. Forget about half-baked - they haven't even put it in the oven yet. Why announce something as significant as a new girls program when they can't even describe what it will look like? They are making this up as they go along. It is a move of desperation, and it is a reflection of their incompetence (in my opinion).

They're leaving it to the locals to work out the specifics, and,  I expect there will be some trial and error.

Only if we assume that an organized scout camp is superior to the boys planning their own fun.  I am not sure that it is.  And I think the BSA will be sensitive to helping boy only troops have access to resources.  But that's just a guess.  I don't know how it's all going to play out.   One of the troops near me is opting out of summer camp this year to work on hiking and they chose a beautiful state park to visit instead.  I bet they'll have a wonderful time. 

I think there are multiple work arounds.   Maybe a boy troop doesn't want to go to a camp with girls so they choose to do a summer camp at a state park or do another kind of adventurous trip.  Maybe they want to work on merit badges as individuals or small groups instead of at  a clinic or college.  There's a lot of flexibility in scouting. 

ETA:  Or maybe the girls want to get away from the boys and will reserve a public campground or do merit badges with a friend, too!  

54 minutes ago, gblotter said:

True - until that boy troop goes to a BSA summer camp, or a Merit Badge Midway, or a Camporee, or any other Scouting function outside his specific troop.

Yep, boys and girls might go to those same things.  I am not sure how terrible that is.   Is it terrible?  

20 minutes ago, SSF said:

Sounds like censorship and thought policing; i.e. the only views and opinions that are accepted are those of the ruling party, the all powerful BSA in this case

Feel free to downvote me

You're free to your thoughts, but realize you're not in charge of the organization.  Also, if the program is youth focused, then the adults should try to avoid BSA (or any other) politics and focus on the program when working with the scouts. That's my point -- adult opinions are not important -- youth decisions on where to camp, and how to run their patrols are important.  Make sense?  

On 1/14/2018 at 10:14 PM, TAHAWK said:

BSA has not explained what the Patrol Method is in over forty years. It was totally absent from Scoutmaster Specific for fourteen years.  (The word "patrol" appeared once in the syllabus section on "Working with youth; the patrol method."  No a sentence in that session related to the Patrol Methoid - not one.  BSA still has the right words here and there, but not is a single chapter, list, or article and very little is identified as part of the Patrol Method.  So no coherent statement since before most SMs were eaned (or born).   Plus, BSA publishes contradictory things that are anti-Patrol Method.  So if you don't know what you are seeing, you might think it's about the mythical Boy Led Troop method, as per "Orientation for New Scout Parents."

The Patrol method is a part of the current training.   Or at least, patrols and patrol meetings and the roles. 

The War on Boys stuff is concerning.  I have three sons and am concerned about some of those issues.  On the other hand, I think that girls will love the BSA program, and that girl troops do not necessarily take away from boy troops, and in the end, everyone will eventually live and work in society together.   I don't see the BSA as getting run over by feminism by this move to allow girls to have dens and patrols or packs and troops.  It is a time of major change, and I don't know how it will play out.  I'm curious to see how it goes. 

18 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Why don't you ask my three daughters if I am anti-female before you start slinging that slur.

I am as heavily engaged in their parenting and development as I am for my son. However, I am experienced enough to appreciate the differences between boys and girls when it comes to a unique program like Scouting. And those differences don't just disappear because of politically-correct derision.

Do you support females in Scouting, and do you support female Scout leaders? 

In the end it doesn't matter all that much, because the BSA does.  Just try not to contradict them too much in your interactions with the youth, especially because the youth members may have their own viewpoints that differ from yours. 

2 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

I am talking about BSA and troop culture not whatever you think I meant. 

Oh, I thought you were still running with gblotter's idea that the 1970's changes ruined everything.   Yes, learning the BSA ways is difficult, but people seem to muddle through and there are ample training materials.  We can start another helicopter parents thread, though!  

14 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Yes, I am definitely anti-coed - no doubt about it.  You will get your wish soon enough. 2018 be my last year as a registered Scouter. After 10+ years as Scoutmaster (two terms), and service at the district level, I will no longer poison youth with my opinions.

BSA obviously wants to appeal to a different kind of Scout and a different kind of Scouter. It is clear that national leadership does not care what I (or anyone else, for that matter) think on this topic. I will step aside to make room for the changes that will be forced through regardless.

For the record, I didn't say you should leave Scouting, but I think you should hold back from sharing strong anti-female or anti-coed views with your troop.  As it stands, girl patrols or troops will be separate.

Thanks for everything you've given to Scouting.  I have 5 years in and my family is committed for at least the next 10. 

Just now, an_old_DC said:

 

This just makes me sad and also illustrates why it is so difficult for some troops to run effectively--parents don't know the culture and wont learn it because they are too busy trying to change it to what they want.

 I was born in 1970, and I'm on the older side of parents in Scouting.  The culture is today's culture, not 1970's culture.  

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

I am repelled by the idea of taking my troop to a co-ed summer camp. Even if I forced the issue, our Scouts would likely refuse to go. Frankly, these boys view summer camp as a week to get away from their sisters - not compete with them during a song-fest.

I am not sure of your role in Scouting, but if you have extremely anti-co-ed feelings you may want to step back from spreading those opinions among the youth.  If the boys are doing their own camp selection and annual planning, maybe they will make different choices, and whatever they choose should be supported. 

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

I predict Scouting will lose two boys for every new girl that enrolls. In the end, BSA will be a ghost of its former self - following in the disastrous path of co-ed Scouting in Canada. BSA National is rolling the dice, and the results on membership will be devastating - similar to the catastrophe of BSA's social experimentation during the 1970s when millions of boys walked away from Scouting in protest. Has it been so long that we can't remember and learn from these past mistakes?

1)  Your guess is as good as mine.

2)  Most parents today were not in BSA leadership in the 1970s and do not relate to that period of Scouting.  Only a few remember whatever it was that happened.

@Col. Flagg, first you are assuming the number of girls that will be joining the program, and second, you are assuming there will be no new volunteers stepping forward to help.   Both points could be off.  

If your troop has ever traveled to Disney world or similar attractions, I'd like to hear all about it, and how the boys liked it and managed the planning and fundraising. Thanks!

8 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

It is a nice idea but I can hear I can hear the complaining now. Why do girls only get one week? Why can't we get x week instead of y week? Not just from the girls but I imagine the boys as well. We hear it already when camps have partition weeks. This also assumes units are all one sex.

Oh, there's always something to complain about, that's not new.

As for girls and troop size, it can go both ways -- oh, we're so small, we can't take girls!  and  oh,  we're so big, we can't take girls!   Whichever variation applies, I'm sure it will be used.

Regarding camp,  I wonder if a solution might be for camps to have all-girls' weeks set aside for female troops or patrols. So perhaps 5 weeks of summer are for males and one week is for females.  Might be an option -- I saw a camp that had one week set aside for LDS scouts only.   It will be interesting to see how camps plan and organize.  Of course there may also be opportunities for strategic campsite placement, etc.

As for supplies, I'll share a story from our youth hockey team.  One player's dad's truck was stolen with all the kids' hockey gear in it. The team and hockey club rallied to help and when we gathered an extra half hour early to help the kid, we had multiple pairs of skates, pads, sticks.. everything.  The stuff just showed up and was gladly volunteered when there was an urgent need to help a kid out.  I'd like to think that there are plenty of people who would help scouts in need of gear. 

1 minute ago, Jameson76 said:

We have had some accelerated rank movements recently also.

We did have a question come up (Greenbar or troop meeting, cannot 100% recall) that was basically will we have to have girls in the troop?  Our response to the scouts was that Scout troops would not be coed, that there would be Female troops and Male troops, that based on information we had, girls could not in fact join our troop.  There was a follow-up question as to whether the CO was going to start a girls troop.  Our feedback on that was we did not know.  Our plan was to continue program as we had for the last 30+ years.  If a BSA4G started it would be like the Girl Scout troop at the church, they would do their thing and we would do ours.

Luckily no one asked about the two summer camps we go to each summer and what would be the impact there in 2019.  Guess that planing horizon is too far out.  I have talked with folks from both camps (not the SE or pros but volunteers and summer staff that do the actual work) and literally there are zero plans in place on what to do;  waterfront changing rooms, shower houses, campsite assignments, troops sharing sites etc etc etc.  Just from an infrastructure point not sure how some councils will pull it off

I think most camps have already had female adults and staff attend, so they should not be entirely unprepared. 

I have heard this out of one parent in our Troop, but I don't know if the reality will match. We'll have to wait and see.  We have a small troop and most boys finish close to 18.  A 16 year old says he wants to get it done, we will see how it goes.  A year is a good amount of time to finish anyway. 

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

So that is my problem. That and I refuse to say "White Rabbit, White Rabbit, White Rabbit" to keep the smoke away.

In my son's troop, it's I hate bunnies.  I don't know how that started.

Other news -- my boys started their Swimming merit badge workshop and made it through the first swim.  I'm getting a wetsuit and prescription goggles for my oldest.  He has very little body fat and was freezing in the water.  He is working on learning lashings for First class.  I showed him where he is at with his merit badges and talked up the Hornaday awards with him, as he is a nature lover and has a lot of those merit badges done.  My oldest and middle agreed to take an Archaeology merit badge class at the Burpee Museum in Rockford, IL, and my middle wants to do Astronomy,  oldest wants to do Robotics, too.  Oldest did a nice job on his first work as Scribe. 

I've always wanted to try snowshoeing and this might be the year to do it!

I am hopeful that we will get some additional leaders on board if we get some girl dens going.  

Talk to your den leader,  this stuff is a balancing act.  It sounds like her son is acting as Den Chief, which is a role for a Boy Scout to help with Cub Scouts,  or he could be a tagalong.

https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/leaders/about/the-pack/csdcf/

I think you are right to help supervise and chip in if the boys are under-supervised.   

Cub Scouts are little wild creatures and not always easy to control.  Also, adults have different tolerances for safety,  but IMO the den leader should have been on the hike, and should have supported you when you asked the boys to stop.

Here is an example of different tolerances for safety.  Little patch of ice on the ground,  a frozen puddle.  12 year old scout wants to "skate" on the ice.   Scouter tells him to stop, but parent is OK with it.   Scouter says that kid could fall and get a concussion and have brain damage so he is right.    Very different perspectives on safety.   

I think that in Cubs, parents voices and concerns should always be heard. 

Perhaps you would volunteer to be Assistant Den Leader?   You will have a voice on the Pack committee.  

Everybody makes mistakes, so do your best to work through it and support your son's Scouting journey.   Best wishes!