WisconsinMomma

Hey Scouters,

I drafted the following today -- posting for any comments or suggestions.

Background: We have a few vivacious kids and adults in our organization!  LOL!

Pack XXX -- Being a Loyal Scout

Dear Scouts and Scout Families,

The Boy Scouts of America says,  “Young Scouts tend to be noisy, active and full of energy.”  How true it is!  While we honor the boys’ energy and enthusiasm, it’s vitally important that we help them practice good behavior and develop the strong character attributes of Scouting.

The Scout Law

A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent

The Scout Oath

On my honor, I will do my best do do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

The Cub Scout Motto

DO YOUR BEST!

For Scouts:

• Be Kind -- show respect to everyone

• Be Safe -- listen to instructions and think before taking action

• Be a Good Citizen -- work together to make, learn and follow your Den’s rules

• Do Good Turns -- think about how your actions might  help or hurt others

• Be a Good Role Model -- show your kindness and good manners in the community

• Have fun!

For Families:  

• Be on time to Den and Pack meetings and events.

• Remind kids of behavior expectations before you arrive at activities.

• Communicate with your child’s Den leader -- let them know if you will be absent or late.

• Don’t bring food and beverages into meetings unless it’s for the whole group.

• Avoid chatting with other grown ups when the kids are learning.

• Support your Den leader with extra supervision, set up,  clean up, etc.

• Encourage all the kids in your child’s den to do their best.  Give gentle reminders.

• Praise the kids when they demonstrate great behavior!

• Teach your child about the Scout Law and helping other people.

• Have fun!

Thank you for all you do for Scouting!   

The Pack XXX Committee

My boys are years away from doing Eagle projects, but I have  a few back pocket ideas that they will probably reject, and that's OK.   Our older son is a nature boy and doing something for our school forest is in his range, or doing a project at either of two nature centers that he really likes.  Middle son loves dogs and helping animals is right up his alley.   Youngest is still a cub scout but he plays hockey and his hockey club home rink looks like it could use some updating and maintenance help.   Just a few ideas, but we'll see what they come up with later!  

Yeah, my husband doesn't want to be the adult that interferes for his kid.  My oldest is 13, and the other boys are probably 15 and 16 or 17.

In the social skills classes, he has learned to observe people and choose the people that he has things in common with to be friends with, and I get the impression that my son would very much like to be friends with both of these boys, who are in his patrol.  (My son and another boy are the two youngest in the mixed age patrol, but I don't know if the two of them have found much in common.)  ETA: my son's issues are minor, it's not a big obvious disability, but he has an IEP at school and in a group he will sometimes stand out as being a little different.  

Oh well, hopefully in time as a patrol they'll get more opportunities to build rapport. 

5 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

If it were me, I would suggest to my son that he find a buddy his own age and/or in his patrol to play cards with.  Presumably your son was not the only boy who was not playing cards.

I think the thing is that they were playing a particular card game with a specialized deck that he really enjoys.   Both of the older boys are in his patrol  (about 2 years older than he is).  

I am not concerned because this happened once, I am concerned that it's happened twice, but it feels like there is not much I can do.  But would you mention a concern to the SM to perhaps keep an eye out for exclusion? 

Hi Scouters,

I am a parent of two Scouts, a 2nd Class and Tenderfoot.  They went to a winter cabin camping event this past weekend.  My older son has ADHD and he takes social skills classes, overall he's not perfect, but he's doing well and making good progress.  My husband, who is an ASM, observed at the end of the day, my son approached two older scouts who were playing a card game and he politely asked if he could join in.  The older boys said no and continued without him.

This has happened once before on another winter outing, last year or the year before -- my son asked to be included in a game and was turned down.

My husband did not intervene, it sounds like he feels like the older boys have the right to say no to my son, at the same time he is troubled by it, and was awake at night thinking about the situation.  When we got home, my husband told my oldest son that he was proud of him for asking nicely if he could play and he's sorry that the older boys left him out. He says he said something about scout skills (which is entirely too vague to mean anything) at the roses and thorns, but he means, that the older boys need to be more welcoming.  Friendly, and all that.  One of the two boys who said no is the ASPL.   

If you were me, the mom, or my husband, the ASM, what would you do?   Nothing?  Mention it to someone?  

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

A nice story, sounds like a nice Troop too.  Congrats to all the boys! 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/southwest/news/west-allis/2018/01/17/11-eagle-scouts-fly-out-one-west-allis-troop-and-all-one-year/1035548001/

I have never seen an AOL ceremony with OA members present;  I did see one AOL ceremony where the cubmaster wore a headdress.  We do use face paint and paint the cheeks of the boys crossing over. 

Curious about what OA does at crossovers and how common this is. 

One of the great things about BSA is they have so much training material.  And so much of it is online and easy to review.  So if new volunteers complete their training, they will get at least a textbook overview of how things work in BSA.

Also, in Cubs, the handbooks are very helpful.

I still expect that new girl members will come with some adults who will help them to get the Girl Troops and Girl Dens running.  

Sounds like you are off to a great start.  Good luck!

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

OK so we are all living on the same planet. I feel better....I am not crazy. Yes we are experiencing that same blurring of the lines.

My son mentioned one cause in our Troop. We used to have a 15 passenger van we shared with our Troop. Could pull a small trailer with the two required adults and 13 boys which sufficed for some trips. 

Then we had to stop using the van and the church and the troop did not have the funds to replace it so we needed dads (and a few moms) for transport. (we do reimburse for gas and since many are trucks it increased each campers cost more than what you thought) to help transport gear and boys. Most of the dads had trucks than minivans and then we had a lot more vehicles and parents at the campsite. And some of these dads liked to camp like they did on their own...not exactly 'car camping' but more like 'truck camping'...a bit gear heavy.

(I never saw so many fit guys 20 years younger than me that insisted that they HAD to have a cot because sleeping on the ground was too hard...which led to bigger tents to hold the cot...which led to the trucks being close to the campsite and they didn't want to carry stuff far. I mean I even try to backpack my gear in even if it is just from parking lot to campsite mostly because I am too lazy to make another trip)

Some of these dads dropped out after a couple trips because their kind of camping was enhanced by the BSA verboten beer. And a few mom's stepped in to help out and you know it is kind of a long round trip to not stay the night and if they are staying the night they should bring little sister (and sometimes the dog).

And voila! Family Camping. While the parents-not really scouters are camping in the 'adult' area/campsite it GREATLY impacts the experience for the Boys and Scouters. I spend all my time explaining while we are ignoring the boys. The boys and fellow scouter personalities  are enough work, throwing in a bunch of parents with time on their hands is a bit much. 

Great explanation.  Maybe the way to get around all this is to hire a bus to/from camp.  I'm serious.  If the adults come from a need for transportation, then upgrade your transportation so you can have your Scouts back?? 

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

If there's that much drama going on, it's best not to get in the middle of it.  That whole process is not for the boys' benefit, so it sounds like you've taken the right course of action.  You did mention interest in the DL position.  Why are you not where you want to be?  The DL job is all "for the boys".  Unless the adults "click" on the notion of doing it for the boys, it's best just to let them go off and do their own thingy and take on a job you really prefer and do well at.    I have always through that any assistant job is t make the boss look good and be successful.  In your case, I don't know if that's possible.

I was very happy as a den leader for 4 years for my middle son's group, and so I've already had the most wonderful time in Scouting. Of course, it's easy to say that when it's all over, it was hard work.   My youngest son has a Bear den leader  and that den is stable.   One of the volunteers for CM stepped up to help his son's Wolf den, and I think that was a great move for him.  When my middle son crossed over, I offered to be ACM,and you know that's not a bad role, not much responsibility, no pressure, etc.: )   Maybe I should take a nap and be content with ACM. 

When I was a den leader, my motto was to focus on the den, not the Pack and that was very helpful -- staying out of the Pack stuff, where there are cliques and politics and weird jockeying around.  I just need a clear answer on if they want me to serve as CM or as interim CM or to continue as ASM *if* they get someone to take the CM role.  I really don't care,  except my 9 year old would be delighted if I was Cubmaster, and I feel I'm qualified, but what will be will be.  I'm going to say it's not my problem right now.  

The crazy thing for me is how organizations treat volunteers.  In our Pack, some are fawned over and make a big splash with a lot of talking while others are taken for granted, and the adult scouting roles can be truly, stunningly thankless.   I think that's just the way of life, though.   Den families were always appreciative and kind.  

And I don't think our COR and AOL DL's motives are totally bad -- they want people who are organized and Type A, -- on the one hand they want people who can get things done --- on the other hand, there's a strong bent toward perfectionism and shunning people who don't meet their standards.  They have a strong preference for sports families and PTO families who they are friends with and even their particular subdivision.  I think they see the school as the "in" crowd and the "outs" and there's the whole idea that if you're the right kind of parent with the right kind of kid, those kids are the winners and the most popular and they all own the school, so to speak.  That's the attitude.  Very clubby and the power moms and dads, the former jocks and cheerleaders playing the same popularity games in their 40's.  And the way I'm wired,  it's just tough to watch it.    Of course my view is negative and I should try to be more open. 

Thanks,  I just needed to vent.  I spoke with the CC and COR and shared my feelings.  My impression is that the COR wants to install her choices,  twist arms to get the volunteers she wants, and presure them to take multi year commitments.  I will make some popcorn and wait for my orders.

That sounds kind of hard to believe, but I believe you.   Wouldn't everyone acknowledge that there is a difference between a family trip and a BSA trip?   My family goes camping and we go on trips and we can go backpacking or do service projects or learn skills as a family.  We do.  We have great family trips and outings and it's part of who we are and what we do.   But a BSA outing is different and it puts the boys in a different group of people and that is good.  It also gives the structure for advancement and recognition and very clear instructions, safety rules, best practices and requirements and that is also good.   

29 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Did he stop?

Good question   Was it effective?????  LOL.

One of the parents in my son's therapy group has a story of her son who hit another kid. He told the kid to stop a few times, then said, stop, or I'm going to hit you, the other kid didn't stop, the lady's son hit the other kid, and THE KID STOPPED.  So her kid learned his method was effective. Her kid didn't get into trouble at school either, because he warned the kid -- stop or I will hit you.  LOL. Sorry, it's only funny when it's not your own kid.  

Our PWD has winners for speed and design too.  Some kids really get into the design, others get into the speed.  Thankfully the kids are generally sportsmanlike about the whole thing.   We had a beautiful parent car once.  The kid was so proud of that car, too.  Given that that kid's parents soon had a very ugly divorce, I am happy that this kid and his dad made some good memories together with that car.   In the end, it's just a PWD. 

23 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

I was being purposely obtuse. I KNOW I can ask. The POINT was that I know better. I live by the rules. I read them and I abide by them. Since BSA is a membership organization and can make their own rules, I don't openly ask them to change them just to accommodate me. Why? Because I believe in allowing organizations -- even ones I disagree with -- to do what they like, how they like. I don't ask to cut in line at Whataburger because I am hungrier than the people in front of me, I wait my turn.

If you read the article she goes on to say how she cannot go to the world jamboree? "Her primary concern is trying to get the BSA to speed up the inclusion date from 2019. Unless admitted very soon, she’ll be unable to participate in certain activities like the 2019 International Jamboree, to be held in West Virginia." 

Really? She can't join a Venturing Crew and go? Her Ontario unit can't go? Please.

And if you read further you see her father's fingerprints all over this issue. Lawyers....Shakespeare had the right idea.

As far as I can tell the request has been respectful and courteous.  Different people have different styles, some are rule followers, and some are change agents.  It's all OK.   My opinion would change if the girl or her family starts trashing the BSA and behaves poorly, but I don't think anything is wrong with a polite request either.

Our Cubmaster retires in Feb.  I am assistant Cubmaster.  I have offered to be Cubmaster if needed.  The Pack recruited another person to be Cubmaster, but his son's den needed a Den Leader and he chose to fill that role instead (and that's an even better job, being a Den leader). The CC asked me to fill in as a temporary CM, then the CM asked me to be CM and introduced me at the Pack meeting as the next CM who is shadowing until the transition.   At the last Committee meeting (I was at a school board mtg that night), the COR and AOL DL and whomever else  discussed pack recruiting and the COR made a list of positions that are needed, listing a Cubmaster as an immediate need.  I had also volunteered to help manage Fall camping, and they listed a fall camping chair as a need and failed to include me as someone who is helping.  The COR has also expressed interest in placing her choice for the next CC, but our current CC is on board for the next two years. 

The committee would like to recruit a new Tiger dad who serves in the military to be CM.  He would be great.  That's cool, but he expressed concerned about deployment.  It seems they are going to work on him to take the CM role, saying deployment is OK, as I would be there as ASM (my current job).  But, he hasn't said yes. Meanwhile, the AOL DL is going to present the leader needs list at the next Pack meeting and try to recruit people.

I am hurt, they say it was not intentional. I am position trained and ready to go and two people have asked me to be CM, but...  I can't consider this settled yet.

Wish me luck at the next committee meeting, where AOL DL wants to be very involved with setting up the Pack for the future.  

Ah, Pack politics!  I almost feel like taking my ball and going home but then I'm the bad guy. 

I think that's cool.  3d printing is cool.   The Scout will learn different manufacturing techniques and that's OK!   Maybe the car will run well, maybe it won't, but it will be a memorable experience for the kid making that car.

Unless the Pack has specific rules against it, why  not?  Why not let the kid have some freedom? 

On 1/9/2018 at 9:41 AM, Eagle1993 said:

A scout is Thrifty!  Without a doubt, pensions are becoming a rare benefit.  That said, I don’t believe DE’s salaries are high (based upon previous forum threads) and the loss of this benefit won’t help.  Yes, one can live off low salaries but not everyone is willing to work for $30-$40-$50k less per year.  My wife is a volunteer president of a food pantry.   The salary and benefits they offer their employees is minimal.  The issue they are running into is finding great leaders willing to work for such low salary and benefits, so they settle for suboptimal performance.     

My concern is that by cutting benefits on already low salary you are on a race to the bottom.  You’ll see jobs not being filled or filled by individuals that may not have the best performance.  I’m sure there are great leaders that are willing to sacrifice further, but it is definitely not good news for attracting top talent.  

 

 

I think that how this will go, is that people who will take the job at it's offered pay will take the job.   If they are smart, they will either a) take the job for a short time and trade up to a better paying job,  b) be the second income in their family and have a spouse's income to help, or c) have worked other jobs, become financially well-set and take the DE job for the community service later in life. 

Not everyone needs to make a big wage.  Some people will find these jobs fit them, others won't and that's OK.  

Pensions are going away all over the place.  In the sense of being thrifty, the BSA must look at its operation costs and keep it lean.   The BSA will need to have good enough compensation to attract and retain talented staff,  and if the pay and benefits are not good enough, they will fail to get the best people.  Organizations and individuals all need to look for the best deal they can get.  

Stay in communication with your son's school and teachers.  What can the school do to help and what can you do at home to help?  

I'll say that the transition from elementary to middle school was rough for my oldest, it's a rough time for a lot of kids.

Best wishes.

On 1/7/2018 at 5:49 PM, Jameson76 said:

I too wondered.  Run a quick word search on the book...change He to They and let's move on. 

That being said, maybe there are more tweaks to put in so as to embrace the new "Family" emphasis.  I can see the shocked faces, but maybe our CSE and crowd have not fully disclosed all the coming changes

I was speaking to a parent the other day about school stuff and raising kids, and teens, etc. etc. and I asked, you have the two boys and your oldest is a daughter, right?  She said -- actually my oldest is nonbinary, so we use different pronouns. 

OK, so, honestly this is new stuff for me, and it takes me a little time to wrap my head around.  But, this is our world and this is how things are working right now.  So, this nonbinary child, they can be part of Scouting.  I have very little experience with in-between gender identity, and I don't even know if that's the appropriate way to describe it.   But, this is where society is going.   The other day, I noticed some boys clothes in Target, and I was interested in the clothing for one of my sons, but something held me a little back -- the cute shirt was ever so slightly -- girly.  The collection includes a dusty pink tone.   I realized later that this collection was positioned on the edge of the boys clothing area -- near bordering the girls area.   This clothing is designed to be in-between.  I Googled Target to see what's up with gender neutrality and saw that a while ago, the removed the boys and girls signs from their toys and home goods sections.  Now gender bending is visible in the children's clothing area.  Subtle, but this is totally planned and conscious. 

Examples:

https://www.target.com/p/boys-floral-short-sleeve-t-shirt-art-class-153-heather-gray/-/A-52721631#lnk=sametab

https://www.target.com/p/boys-short-sleeve-dip-dye-t-shirt-art-class-153-water-violet/-/A-52727367#lnk=sametab

I'm totally wondering how this particular collection will sell, but there's no doubt about the trend.

On 1/7/2018 at 1:28 PM, an_old_DC said:

Who the first Eagle Scout was is tremendously important to any Scout working on the Scouting Heritage MB, anybody who visits the museum at Philmont or anybody who treasures Scouting heritage in general.

Scouting Heritage ranks as #82 on the list of merit badge popularity from 2016, with about 5,000 badges earned in a year.   (Compare that to the 75,000 first aid merit badges earned.)  Good for people interested in Scouting history, but it's not vitally important information to the program.  If we say Scouting is not all about the Eagle rank, then it's not all about Eagle scout history. 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/03/23/2016-merit-badge-rankings-unveiled-these-were-the-most-and-least-popular/

I don't know or particularly care who the first Eagle was or who the first female Eagle will be.   This is small stuff. 

First off, thank you for helping your troop.  They need a Treasurer and you will be fine!  It's OK.

I'll tell you exactly what I think -- I think you can come up with the system that works best for you.   You do not have to use QuickBooks.  You just need the Scout bank records and a register and you can record things the way you want. 

There are online, cloud-based softwares available if that's what you want, or you could use a Google spreadsheet.  Quickbooks has an online subscription for $7/mo, and maybe that is affordable or maybe not.

Ask the last Treasurer what the heck is up with those checks and cash.  Hunt them down for answers.  Were they doing something like mobile deposits?  

I have not been a Treasurer, but I know you can do this.  Take it one step at a time and set it up in the way that makes the most sense for you.

Do your best.  It will be OK.

Also don't forget to take the committee member training on my.scouting.org, when you can get through it -- it's a lot of training but you can do it in small chunks.