WisconsinMomma

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that my husband did anything wrong as a Webelos leader, and I don't think he did.  He was a fine den leader and now serves as an ASM, showing up at pretty much everything so that the troop has adults available. I know his used the older book, and my den used the newer book, and I don't know exactly what they covered.  Just because and adult is there, doesn't mean they're an interfering adult.  Den leaders have responsibilities, and what I remember in the Webelos / Arrow of light curriculum was about getting started with learning the patrol method, not mastering it. 

Question for ya @WisconsinMomma,  what was the Webelos program like for your 13 year old? Did the DL treat it like a continuation of Cub Scouts, or started treating it more like a Boy Scout patrol?

My husband, his Dad, was den leader.  As we have had no prior experience with Scouting, we each did the basic requirements for what was in the Webelos handbook with our dens.  

I read your description of what you did with a Webelos/AOL den but that seems to be above and beyond the norm. 

Well, after spending a weekend with Webelos this weekend.  Here are my insights while they are fresh in my mind.  They need to learn how to setup tents, clean dishes with the 3 pot method, and learn to be helpful vs. waiting for an adult to do work for them or and older scout.  The webelos that we hosted, didn't know any of these skills and expected the scouts to wait on them hand and foot.  It made everyone very tense.

 

Of course the hardest parts was having the parents not bringing food for their boys, hovering over them, and worried the boys failing.

My Arrow of Light Scouts never learned to wash dishes with the 3 pot method.  This was covered in our BALOO/OWL leader training, but it did not come up in any of the boys' advancement requirements.  So, it didn't get done.  They had set up tents once, but did not have a lot of experience with it, and they made foil pack dinners once.  

Just a heads up that the wash rinse sanitize is not anywhere in the Cubs program that I know of, and that most of the time, the newer Scouts will benefit from training and additional practice with these basic camping skills.  

That's great, BackPack.  Glad you were able to take on leadership positions early.  Right now my oldest isn't interested in leadership positions, and he seems to be still working on fitting in the group and learning to follow.  His first year in Scouting was a big transition, and this year he appears more settled in the group.  He likes the Troop and is doing pretty well on the outings, and we're pleased with how he's doing with that. 

ETA: My middle son was an Asst. Patrol Leader right away, for two terms, but then his patrol was merged and he lost his job.  It seems he would like to be in a patrol leadership position again and he has interest in that.  Although, when his first opportunity to go to a patrol leader meeting came up he didn't want to go.  He complained -- I don't want it -- give it to (other boy)!  He worked it out.  

Each kid is a little different, sometimes they are very different! 

Great feedback.  Thanks everybody!   Still listening if anyone else wants to chime in. 

Perhaps passing rank is a stepping stone in the skill building journey.  It doesn't end there. 

Personally, I'm not all that worried about a kid falling out of a boat on a fishing trip with an adult and wearing a PFD, but it depends on the fishing trip, the body of water, and the weather, right?   You know what scares me?  Falling through the ice. That's very dangerous, and to my knowledge, there's nothing in Scouting that really covers surviving that kind of accident. Scouting can't be everything.  It's a foundation and a beginning.

In my adult life, I don't go on the water much, not even once a year, only every couple years.  I swam a lot as a kid but don't know my current swimming endurance level, to be honest. It's been years! Could I swim for my life?  Falling out of a boat with a PFD?  Absolutely, yes.  Could I survive under all conditions?  Of course not, we are all human.  

I will be pleased when my sons can pass their first class swim tests and then we'll see where their interests take them. 

i would not consider a 13 year old a new guy. most of the PLs growing up were 13-14. I was ASPL at 13. And really, Anyone First Class or higher, regardless of age, should be able to handle themsleves, and teach others. dad should not have to double check.

This depends on the kid, and you'll have to trust me that I know my own kid.   He's been in Boy Scouts for 1.5 years, he's a 2nd class, and he has ADHD and is less mature than some other boys his age.  He does not have it all together at this point, but we're seeing him make progress, little bit by little bit.   He's definitely gotten more experience through going to many troop outings, and that's great. 

Agree that there are many different Scouting journeys and that there are many different ways to learn and grow in Scouting.

The younger boys, like my 11 and 13 year old are absolutely in a "still learning" phase.   

This weekend they are going cabin camping on a leadership outing.  Now, packing.  They have been through packing a few to several times, and I can send them with a list to do their own packing.  I can also not check their bags.  I can tell you my husband will want me to check their bags, so we'll see how that goes.  Last outing my middle son insisted he had extra shoes, but he did not.  It was not the end of the world.

This weekend has been described as -- the kids will be busy learning so the adults are doing all the cooking.  It does not sound like an "ideal" outing, but for now, I'm thankful that there is an outing happening and hopefully the kids will have a good time.  Kids who went to NYLT will be leading, I think.

As for the helicopter parent thing, I wonder if Scouters can pick some of their battles (priorities) -- for example, prioritize the patrol stuff over the merit badges... of course, barring any craziness like having parents sign off on their own kids' blue cards. 

My unit doesn't have scouting families. We have scouts and scout leaders. Some of them are related. Some aren't.

OK, semantics.  You have scout parents.  Or, families of scouts.  How are your relationships evolving over time?  

I'm curious to what you're seeing as the progression goes from new scout and scouting family to a more experienced scouting family one or two years later.   How do things change over time?

I know that in my oldest son's first year, I cared about advancement and I had questions.  I still care about advancement.  I think that if we're honest, Eagle Scout is part of the dream or part of the opportunity that we hope for for the boys.  Prior to a cooking outing, I was curious if the boys would have the opportunity to get certain parts of their requirements checked off.  I was nervous, because it was a good opportunity and it might be months before the boys would have the opportunity to cook with their patrols again.  As it turned out it all worked out.  My confidence in the troop grew, but I am glad that I asked a question (to an ASM) about how if they planned to cover the second class cooking stuff.  Now I understand a little more and I'm a little more relaxed about it.  Also, since my oldest has made it to second class, I can see that first class can be done and the rest after that isn't so bad.  

Reading stuff about first class in a year freaked me out.   And it was a disservice to have that expectation pushed out there (not by our troop, by online reading) My kids aren't there and it's not a reasonable path.

Regarding getting to Eagle Scout and merit badges -- at the ages my kids are, I have signed them up for a few merit badge classes and forced them to go.  They get some choices but not all the choices, so I can and will decide for them, at these ages -- boys, you're going to learn about Electricity or Fire Safety and take a 1/2 day class and earn a merit badge.  Period, end of story.  One of the great things about Scouting is the opportunity for kids to get some practical learning. When we went to Washington DC on spring break, and about a month before our trip, I realized -- there's a Citizenship in the Nation badge, we made them do it.  It made sense.  My tenderfoot completed an Eagle badge and that's OK, and it's perfectly fine for that to happen. I had the boys do a council class for First Aid.  Older son had his First aid about  1/2 complete from an outing, middle son had no experience.  They took the class.  My husband complained that it's not enough, but the reality is these boys will be reviewing first aid all the time in their Troop.  They're not supposed to be paramedics from a 4 hour class, they are supposed to have a basic understanding of whatever is in the requirements. 

I am nerdy about their advancement.  I take photos of their signed blue cards.  I have a Google spreadsheet for each of them, as well as a list of all the resources in the area for badge classes that I know of.  Not that they will take all those classes, but at least we have an idea of what's out there.  

ETA: A friend in our troop said that her son is going to manage the whole thing on his own, and that is great.  At a cub camping trip, I talked with her about it, and said something like -- knowing your kid has a goal of getting Eagle, I think he will get it but he might be the kind of get that gets it done at the last minute. She agreed. I let her know about the three 90-day requirements for Personal Fitness, Personal Management and Family Life and suggested that they develop a plan so the kid won't be stuck trying to do them all at the last minute, all at the same time.  I also let her know that for my kid, with some of the tracking things, we have struggled, and we've helped our son by giving him a calendar on the wall, or a daily desk calendar when it's time to track stuff, like the 30 days of fitness.  My oldest lost his first 30 day fitness record and ended up doing it twice.  He survived, but he's learning to organize, with some parental help and structure.  Without us giving him some tools and suggestions, the task is too much, and this is all a learning experience.  

My personal goal for my boys is that they get 3 or 4 Eagle merit badges a year so that by freshman year of high school they have them all out of the way.  Maybe that happens or not, but they may as well be working on Boy Scout things, eagle required or not, than sitting with a nose in their electronics. 

Back to the original point, It would make sense that over time, families and kids get more comfortable with Scouting and things get better. I was reading a post yesterday that said new Webelos come in with no teamwork skills.  Well, they're 11 year olds!  They haven't learned yet.  That's how it goes.   New parents come in with little understanding of Boy Scout processes, but it would seem that the boys and their families all grow over time. 

I'll share that one of the nicest experiences I've had as a Scouting parent was a Scouting families picnic thrown by one of the assistant scoutmasters.  It was toward the end of summer or the beginning of the school year, pot luck, hang out in the backyard,  kids throwing a football, adults socializing.  I loved it because it was a chance to meet more of the families, and have more community.  

I'll chime in with the experience of being a newer parent in the Troop.   I'm not a helicopter parent, but... I am a parent with a strong interest in Scouting.  Some folks may feel that's just as bad, or may as well be the same thing.  My question for your friend's troop is -- how are they communicating with parents, and what opportunities are they making for the parents to be involved?  

An active parent can be a resource for a Troop.  Do you need fundraising, a committee position filled, support with rides, etc?  Is there any way that you can fit in a helicopter parent into your program and start more of a relationship with the family?  

In my experience, I have felt some frustration with my son's troop committee (my boys' experiences in the troop itself are very good) because I want to be active, but... there is a bit of an, "we've always done it this way" culture. We have some old-timers, perhaps one in particular, who has exerted a lot of influence over the adult leadership, although that is gradually changing and more parents of current scouts are getting involved.  Experienced adult leaders are wonderful, but not when it comes across as a resistance to any change or new idea. I have felt frustrated with an adult committee dominated by Scouters whose children are long grown up, and who I occasionally hear complaining about current parents not stepping up when, in my view, there's little room made for them!  Experienced Scouters get a lot done and they make the program stronger, but... current parents must be welcomed and brought into the organization, too.   There has got to be a balance and respect going both ways. 

Parents are part of the Scouting team, and a negative bias towards parents hurts the program.  

"My" Arrow of Light Scouts crossed over last year.  Your Webelos handbook requirements for Scouting Adventure should help a lot.   I have fond memories of the boys using meeting time to brainstorm, and debate and vote for their patrol name -- it was not easy for them -- they barely agreed, but finally came up with, the Night Owls.   Then they voted for their patrol leader and assistant patrol leader.  Then one of the boys made their Den flag and when they visited one of the Troops for a meeting, they had their patrol flag and name with them.  They also visited a troop for a fishing outing (daytime only).

They covered the Scout sign, handshake, oath and law, etc. and I showed them my older son's uniform, some merit badge books, etc. 

As far as planning an outing -- they made a plan, but didn't actually do an outing because of the weather, but they practiced planning.

It was a little like herding cats, but they enjoyed it.  All six crossed over into Troops, but one has likely left, he was a reluctant crossover, a totally great kid.  The other 5 are active.

I think that's possible, with some kind of structure?   We can make sure that some materials are available for the Scouts to use, and have adults available to answer questions.  It could be like patrol challenges -- here's a ten minute window to prepare -- I'll check back on you and then I'd like you teach me X and Y.    

I've never seen a merit badge class like that but it could be interesting. 

My two sons in Scouting are taking individual swim lessons with an instructor who is a BSA Swimming merit badge counselor.  The boys swim at our fitness center pool with goggles.  Both boys were able to complete requirements for their beginner swimmer, and are working on their endurance for the regular swimmer designation.  At this time, neither boy wishes to swim at camp, they do other things.  It working for us, for now. 

Love the idea to teach the boy who is afraid to jump in to hold his nose and shut his eyes.  Hope the boy is able to set his goals and achieve them with support from his Troop. 

Hi Scouters,

One part of my Wood Badge ticket is to develop and run a Traffic Safety merit badge clinic.  I'm just getting my thoughts together and starting to review the material.

I know that merit badge classes are not everybody's favorite, and so I wanted to ask, in your view, what would make a merit badge class a strong merit badge course.

The general plan is to do a course that is 1/2 day, probably mostly a hands on review of the course material after Scouts study and prepare at home, with small groups of scouts rotating through activity stations.  Perhaps we could make the setup more patrol-ly and less adult-y,  but with adults attending each station for organization and sign off. 

A fellow Scouter helps organize an excellent Fire Safety merit badge course, and we're talking about offering Fire Safety in the morning and Traffic Safety in the afternoon, at a fire station / police station shared campus venue. 

I'd love to hear any best practices you may have used or witnessed with regard to badge classes.

Thanks!

Yes, I'm the same person from Bryan's forums.  Nice to see you here too! 

Hi Scouters,

Test... test.. am I really here?

I've been reading the Scouter forums for a few months but have had difficulty getting on and posting, so here we go.   I'm a mom of 3 boys, a Bear, a Tenderfoot and a 2nd Class, currently working as Asst. Cubmaster and Troop Secretary, and working on my Wood Badge tickets towards a 2019 deadline.

Nice to meet you!