DuctTape

I find socratic questioning a helpful way to mentor the PLs and APLs. Paperwork not so much. I would start with the mentoring of the PLs and asking what is working well and what needs improvement. Use socratic questioning to get to help the PL determine possible solutions.

Focus on:

the PL as the leader, someone other's follow

leading by example

servant leadership

When I did IOLS the instructor quickly realized my skill set and had me instruct my patrol. Interestingly it took quite a few years after for the course director to utilize me as a  council and district trainer. 

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Let me guess, if we paid more FOS, then all of the system issues would be resolved.  

Local council staff wandered by a recent meeting, showing the colors I guess.  They did get around to asking about when they could do the FOS song and dance.  I asked about the council salary structure (available from IRS 999 form), I asked what real value the council actually brings at the unit level, and beyond building the bank of money the council has, what would the FOS fund?  We don't have a DE and not sure what they would do and what value they would bring if we had one.

Crickets

Anyone else find it humorous that the acronym for Friends of Scouting has a completely different meaning altogether?

Playing devils advocate, if the nearby dining hall is taller and does not have a lightning rod to ground it, also if the construction materials of the dining hall are more conductive then the shorter lean-to could be the safer location. But lightning is unpredictable and while usually will ground to the tallest, the "closer" ground can be the shortest distance and likely path. In short, there are no absolutes in storms as to the safe place, only a continuum of unsafe.

And quite a few had a youth scouting experience which was completely adult driven and run; they are doing what they know. Quality Control in BSA is non-existent and hasn't existed for decades.

Hands on activity would be a giant bin with stuff and a backpack. They need to go to their packing list and pack their backpack. Without real gear can be bean bags (of different sizes and weights) labeled with the gear item. Also include items not to take (make these bean bags big and heavy) Addition to the idea is to include putting on the backpack and then walking a "trail" marked with tape. Can be done as a relay too. Instead of bean bags, cardboard boxes of different sizes or some other representation.

I remember that rubber band powered paddle boat. Also clothespin trigger rubber band guns.

3 hours ago, malraux said:

If we are building a program with a lower limit of 18, is there a good reason to cap it at 21?

No, I used 21 as the end of the range due to BSA's policy basically prohibiting 18-21 y/o from truly participating. But as you correctly state, there need not be an upper limit for this. In fact my concept requires some older, veteran Scouters to really guide the young (in age and/or experience) to become well qualified Scouters.

If I was to design a BSA program for 18-21 y/o. I would...

1. Recognize they are adults.

2. Provide opportunities for more advanced type adventures.

3. Focus on training these adult scouts how to implement the Scout Program as designed with Patrol Method and all the other things we often describe here.

#3. is best done as "campfire discussions" or "talks while hiking" instead of "classroom in the outdoors". The training should be explicitly known  but implicitly executed.

In general the outcomes should be "outdoor fun with similar aged adults" and "training future Scoutmasters".

Rationale: While going through the program as a scout even with a fantastic SM in a high quality troop, the scout likely does not understand the intricacies of what the SM (and ASM) are doing (or not doing!). This training supports what the scout already experienced (if it was great) or supplants with better Scoutmastership training.

While I agree that the discuss & explain requirements are wayyyy overdone, IMO what should be included is a requirement that the scout conference with the counselor at least twice during the process. One of those conferences must occur prior to completion of "all the other requirements". This could be specific to the mB.

Rationale: so the scout can benefit from the adult association and expertise of the counselor and use the expertise in at least some of the requirements. For example using hiking merit badge, a scout might contact the mB counselor after having done the shorter hikes, but before the 20 miler they must conference with the counselor. This allows for the scout to reflect on the previous hikes with a hiking expert who can help the scout "see" their previous hikes from a different perspective. The counselor can also offer advice and ideas for the future. The scout then completes the 20 miler and has a final conference with the counselor to reflect on that hike and what they did differently etc...

A good counselor will be able to have a reflective conversation with the scout so they benefit from associating with he adult, gleaning knowledge from an expert and growing in their own competency in the the mB.

9 hours ago, yknot said:

We can't get kids (or parents) to devote any time to anything that isn't directly related to Eagle. The only way would be to make this the Eagle Scout advancement path instead. Which I would wholeheartedly support. 

While I agree with the sentiment, using this as the path will ultimately just water it down to checkboxes too. 

IMO the number one problem is one&done requirements coupled with working on specific rank reqs simultaneously. This encourages lack of growth. Instead of the step-wise nature of requirements growing in complexity and skill, scouts do something once and "get it signed off in 3 different ranks". Yes, Scouters are not following the GTA, they are using the training as the requirement, and not testing. Advancement and the requirements are a process, not a single step and should encourage growth not stagnation.

#gettingoffmysoapbox

Pg 88, paragraph 3:

"not under the collar"

Rockwells illustrations also appeared in Edward Cave's books... "The Boy Scout's Hike Book" and "The Boy's Camp Book". My copies are from 1916 iirc.

Johnsch322, I am sorry for what happened to you, for what some people did to you, for the pain and suffering you endured, for what you continue to endure, for all the feelings and emotions surrounding your ordeal and those which continue or are amplified by the bankruptcy process. 

None of us here mean you more pain. I am sorry if any of my words (or those of others) caused you more. I am sorry you are tired. 

I am sorry.

Iirc, when a "troop becomes their own CO", it begins with the formation of an organization. They might call themselves "friends of troop xyz". That organization would file as a not-for profit with the state, which requires bylaws etc.. This organization sponsors the troop as the Chartering Organization.  In reality the organization is just the troop committee itself, however there are legal requirements which must be met too maintain the not for profit status. See your state laws for info. Lastly, I am not sure that moving forward the BSA will "allow" these anymore. Certainly they have not been encouraged in decades. However as long as they still allow an outside organization to become a CO, the "friends of..." is legally no different than any other.

On 2/3/2022 at 9:42 AM, Double Eagle said:

I seem to remember using the neckerchief for SM minutes with the 3 edges as 3 parts of the scout oath and 12 rolls for the scout law.  Also, as the last uniform item put on, the scout oath and law are the last part of the uniform.  This is a really reduced SM minute and roll tight as 12 is a lot with smaller neckers.

I remember when neckerchiefs were large squares. This allowed them to be functional equipment too, not simply adornment. I recall doing first aid training and we used our neckerchiefs as slings, to make splints, etc...

Oh how I wish my friend Tom was still alive. I met Tom almost twenty years ago. Long story so I won't digress with details.

Tom was a ww2 vet, he was also an eagle scout. He told me about the 35 jamboree which never happened. He was supposed to attend. He did attend the next one. As an avid photographer (and motion pictures) he had filmed that next jamboree. iirc he also attended and filmed a world jamboree. Either the BSA or the LC  had put out some publication for the 75th anniv of Scouting(or some other important milestone) and referenced the 35 jambo. He contacted them to remind that it did not occur. I beleive he then donated his footage to BSA (or LC). 

Anyway, I miss Tom and his stories. I wish I could send him a message to inquire about this thread and share his recollections. 

Rest in Peace my friend.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

One other point that I didn't see mentioned.  Propane performance degrades a lot as temps drop below 20F.  We typically use white gas stoves for Klondike.  However, we found a trick where you heat a pot of water on a white gas stove (not boiling, just warm).  Then, place your propane tank(s) in that pot to use the other stoves.  It works, but we found just using white gas easier (and probably a bit safer) than putting tanks of propane in warm water.

 

Propane? Or the smaller IsoButane/propane canisters?

Butane is the worst as it gets cold due to its vaporization temp is 33 deg F. IsoButane is often used b/c vaporization temp is 11 deg F. Vaporization temp of propane is -44 deg F which is why it is often mixed with Iso for the "winter mixes" problem is the propane will be used first if the temp is below and all that is left in a 3/4 canister is the Iso. The reason propane is not used entirely in the small canisters is the pressure required. Additionally as the fuel is used the pressure drops which cools the fuel even more making it even more difficult to vaporize. 

White gas does not have these issues, however it has others.

The greatest issue with all chemical fuels is they require significant supervision by an adult (GTSS) which can interfere with the independence of a patrol.

 Thus, I recommend using wood fire whenever possible and legal. 

Sleeping tip, put on a fresh pair of loose fitting wool socks. Even if they "feel dry" there will still be some moisture from the day. Loose fitting (not floppy) so as to not restrict blood flow. A fresh base layer for sleeping is also advised for the same moisture reason. Put clothes for next day (might be what was just taken off) in sleeping bag with you. They will be warm&dry for the next day. In ultra cold, my boots also (in a bag first) go in my sleeping bag.

Upstate NY here. We camp in subzero regularly. Here are some layering tips.

Baselayer: wool or synthetic, don't overdue this. The purpose is to wuck moisture from the body not be your insulation.

Warm layer: fleece, down, wool. This is a thicker layer with the purpose of providing the majority of your insulation. This should stay dry.

Top/over layer: Purpose is to keep elements away from insulation layer, whether it is wind, rain or snow (or all three). Some use a top layer to keep fire sparks off their insulation layer.

Some add additional layers, but this is the basic idea.

It is likely you have all three layers already. For example, long sleeve synthetic base layer, wool sweater, water resistant coat.

25 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

The council does the recruiting, starting new units, assures that there are events (such as camporees), and organizes and operates summer camps.  Without those efforts, Scouting becomes a very small and limited hobby for few.  If you believe that the values taught in the Scout Oath and Law help young people become better adults (as research demonstrates), then it should be available to all youth.  
 

Councils are crucial to Scouting.  Volunteers are absolutely necessary as it cannot occur without them.  However, professionals provide much of what makes Scouting fun and memorable. 
 

 

I am not sure I agree with much of that. At least not in my area. Recruiting is done at the unit level, new units really aren;t necessary as there are so mnay already which can easily handle an increase in numbers of scouts. Camproees are done by district and IMO are good for the youngest scouits but after two or three the scouts want to do other stuff. Summer camp perhaps, but technicaly it is a stand-alone system; it can still operate without a council overseeing it. Volunteers at the unit level provide 99% or more of what makes scouting fun and memorable, NOT the professionals. Your area might be different.

I agree that the degree of the act of service is to be defined by the scout and spiritual leader. I would also note that the requirement does indicate the act is to be "for someone in your family, neighborhood..." so I would encourage the scout to identify the specific person for whom the service was for (even if they do not know the person's name). 

4 hours ago, clbkbx said:

Who moderates the Moderators?

Everyone. All members have the right to vote with their feet. 

I agree with not skipping an event.

They could even ask the event supervisor to teach them some lashings during that time.

At the very least encourage them to get the maximum points for "show scout spirit". 

Cool article! I consistently bring up the Scout Motto (on this forum and elsewhere) as the examplar of all Scouting Ideals; the article appears to agree with me.  I would suggest that beyond society not understanding, is many Scouters do not either as advancement seems to be the focus, with service relegated to a rank or mB requirement.