DuctTape

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Our District has no role in the process. We go straight to Council. Best of luck!

If you want, I will call National HQ and complain about your district adding to the requirements.

42 minutes ago, Calion said:

You’re right; I missed “Troop Leader Guidebook” in that list. I’ve now searched for “yell” in all four, and none of them even mention giving the yell during opening ceremonies, except "Use the patrol yell to announce to the other patrols that your patrol is ready to go, is present during a troop assembly, or has done well during a patrol game.”.

An opening ceremony is an example of  "a troop assembly" .

4 hours ago, Calion said:

Could you point me to where this is discussed? My copy of the Patrol Leader’s Handbook says:

 

 

Pg 22 in my 1959 edition.

I find this version to be far superior to the newer ones b/c it provides actual "how-to-do" suggestions, instructions and examples. Most of your questions are actually answered in these old editions which demonstrates the inferiority of the current books.

Another thing to mention is there is a difference between a Patrol Yell, and a Patrol Call. 

The yell is more of a cheer, something the patrol does to show spirit like when winning a competition.

The call, is a way to communicate, get each others attention, respond, etc...

These are both described in better detail with examples in the Patrol Leader's Handbook.

20 hours ago, SSScout said:

Sort of like this ?

 

That was the 3rd best show on PBS.

#1 was 3-2-1 Contact

#2 was ZOOM!

We used to use ours before, during and after patrol competitions.

If you have access to pie irons, these can be great for young scouts to prepare and cook their own. Basic premise is butter+ bread + filling.

As a kid, our patrol did an entire Fri-Sun campout with just pie irons and a coffee pot. IIRC this was our menu:

Fri night: Pie iron PB&J. Pie iron Choc & marshmallow melts

Sat: (B) Pie iron sausage eggs and cheese. (L)Pie iron ham & cheese w/ tomato cupOsoup. (D) Pie iron pizza. Pie iron apple pies.

Sun: instant oatmeal. 

Tang, Hot cocoa and powdered milk always available.

3 hours ago, cmd said:

I guess it comes down to what "at the activity" means.  Is sitting at the trailhead at the activity? 

 

Yep. A ton of real life examples. Here is one... A Scout attends a school board meeting to satisfy Cit. in Comm req#3. And it isn't just limited to mBs. 2nd class req#7 "participate in a school..."

I had a few scouts who chose Hiking mB specifically b/c it appeared more challenging.

29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

This is a common pattern in scouting.  The next volunteer does not step up until the current person leaves.  It happens all the time at all levels in scouting.  

Set your date.  Communicate it.  Move on.  

At some point, the current parents need to step up and fill the void.

It happens in many organizations. Sometimes it is necessary to create a vacuum to generate movement.

On 3/25/2023 at 12:28 PM, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I don't think this rule is going to be actually followed by anyone currently doing two nights in a row without a detailed, well thought out, well-explained rationale. We may all cook up different "legal" schemes but we're effectively not going to stop a key part of the cub scouting program just because someone said so.

And this was exactly my main point about putting it into the GTSS. It forces unit leaders to question ALL of the topics in the document, rendering it useless for its main purpose.

12 hours ago, ShootingSports said:

Pure speculation on rationale : 2 nights require a lot of resources that a number of packs would not be prepared to host.  Cost of the events increase significantly for the 2nd night (putting a strain on CS parents). 2 nights is an exhausting pace and fatigue leads to accidents. Dont want competition with our own camps.  National might have seen pattern in reported injuries and correlated to two night stays. Our program is "progressive" in advancement ( 1 night for CS and more for BS). NCAP kicks in and requires significant planning to comply (Units not prepared whereas Camps are (or at least should be).

 

Seven potential reasons......

These are reasons for why a unit may decide to have a single night campout. But they are not reasons for why the gtss should prohibit it for all.

21 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Oh, this is fantastic! Thank you so much! The question of skill progression is not my forte - I have no background in early childhood education - so having some guidance of what you can expect is so helpful! I will see what we can do with this. I see you can get orienteering kits online and we also have a club in town whose white course we might be able to borrow. 

Thank you 🙏

20 hours ago, cmd said:

I think another fun orienteering-based activity would be to take a hike and do a scavenger hunt along the way for features that would be listed on a map: old stone wall, streambed, large rootstock, lone tree, reentrant, etc.  If you can get a trail map, even if it isn't a topo one, they could draw in the symbols that correspond to those features.  Or even without a map, just have some large copies of the symbols and when they find something that is represented in the list show you the symbol.

8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

make and print your own basic topo maps at caltopo.com

All good ideas. Another way to introduce map&compass and begin the skill progression is have them use the M&C to navigate to a large object/area on the map instead of a tiny orientering control. For example, take a bearing from their location and navigate to the playground, then take another a navigate to the sledding hill and then another to... . This gets them accustomed to the basics of using the M&C together and not focusing on straight line to stay on the exact bearing. They do not need to be as precise in their bearing so it is more fun, and they will be more successful which motivates them to the next step in their skill progression.

Note: In real life this is more what bacckountry navigating is like anyway. Using terrain features and navigating to the large objects like "the pond"; using terrain features as backstops and handrails etc...

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Outings? No. Food (menu) and who is buying (grub master), by patrol. 

But not who is actually attending?

This could be a first step towards fully planning the outings as a patrol.

Do any plan and coordinate by Patrol?

15 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I wish life were that easy. I have seen many Scouts over the years who didn't want to be there.  Their parents made them.  (We have a few at the moment.)  Some have changed their minds over time, and some left. 

Parents ultimately make the decision about joining Scouting, not the youth.

I did not say it was easy; anything but.

I have had similar experiences. Mostly the scouts want to do scouts.

We disagree about who makes the ultimate decision. Certainly parents have the authority, but IMO the ultimate decision needs to be the scouts. 

Absent the youths' desire, everything else is meaningless.

Back to the OP. Two words. I submitted mine.

10 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, Little League websites, social posts, email blasts, electronic newsletters, "Annual Key Touchpoints", imagery, sponsoring searches, etc. etc. etc. are all aimed at the youth??

Who knew those kids were so savvy??

https://www.littleleague.org/downloads/annual-guide-marketing-assets/

If kids just wanted to play baseball, they'd go to the park, backyard, open field, sandlot, (like we did as kids) and hit the ball around.

Communication tools provided to adults to help them get their kid involved is not the same as marketing to the target audience.

One can only aim at a single target.

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I love the idea, but how do we reach that as reality?

Parents are a target audience.  Without them, how would we have Scouting?

Adult volunteers are a target audience.  Without them, how would we have Scouting?

BSA National has made itself the target audience for the dollars.  Without them, we could still have Scouting 😜

 

 

Little League is not marketed to adults. Kids wanna play baseball so the adults (and community) provide a league.

If youth want to do it, their parents would sign them up. Parents are often the volunteers, the youth become volunteers. There is no need to market Scouts to the adults; if the youth wanna do it, the adults will provide. The scouts are the only target audience. IMO part of the problem is BSA (national) was/is trying to market itself to the adults and as a result forgot the only target audience that matters.

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

These are the two words for the youth!

As I laid out earlier, there are several target audiences for Scouting, not just the youth.  Any strategies to increase membership must identify and appeal to each of those audiences.

Yes., if the youth want to be a scout, then that is all that is necessary. There are other benefits for adults... parents, society etc, but in the end the only target audience that matters is the youth.

My two words:

"outdoor adventure"

Those of us in GenX often refer to the boomers as having ignored us, or as latch-key kids needing to raise ourselves. We learned quickly to be independent, and to do things for ourselves. 

Sadly our generation swung the pendulum too far. Not wanting to have the Milennials and Z to "suffer our fate", we overscheduled, hyper-supervised, and bubble-wrapped them.

The lack of youth initiative, letting adults plan/control, etc.. Scouts is a reflection of the greater society. We did it to ourselves.

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ostensibly, it is to make sure the Eagle Scout candidate planned the project.

A 16 year old's level of planning usually is not going to be anywhere near an adult's level of planning.

Oftentimes, I actually let the Scout experience difficulty, and then let them figure out how they are going to deal with it.  And, if they did not plan properly (did not have enough boards or bolts or cement bags, or whatever) they will learn from their mistakes.

Once the project is signed off, isn't that sufficient to say that, at some point, the planning came together so that the Scout could finish his project?

Leave that discovery for the EBoR.  Finding out what went wrong, or what obstacles were encountered in a project, and how the Scout dealt with it speaks volumes more about his personal growth than how well he planned it.  When I see a meticulously planned project, I also hold it a bit more suspect as having had too much parental or leader involvement anyway... in my experience...

Agreed. Part of the project is to also be a learning and growth opportunity. If an error was made in planning, and not enough materials were purchased, etc... then the project might need to be finished the following week. It is these mistakes and the follow-up which help develop management, leadership and ultimately character. The final report, if sufficient time is spent on it, will include significant reflection by the scout on their growth. 

If the solution to improper behavior by adults is paperwork for scouts, then the solution did not correctly identify the problem.

If council and district adults are acting inappropriately, then they need training and oversight. 

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