DuctTape

Patrol leaders ought to be doing gear checks before setting out. There is a rank requirement to present oneself to your PL properly dressed and packed... this should be standard operating procedure NOT a 1-and-done requirement.

Prior to the 1st campout of the year(or even more often), the PL (or another scout) should be bringing in their pack to a patrol/troop meeting and demonstrate what and how to pack it. (This would fulfill a req for Communications mB). 

Scouting done right can fulfill requirements by just doing scouting right. Rank and mB requirements are not the program, but knowing them and how they complement each other helps ensure the program is a good one. 

I am not sure looking at other large not for profits is the answer either. The problem with BSA top leadership AND with other not for profits is all of them have a singular focus which is fundraising. All of the organizations regardless of good ol boy clubs, or seekers of new blood suffer from this same affliction. Listening in they willfully acknowledge this is priority #1, they even justify it with statements such as, "we cannot serve the members, or advocate for cause 'xyx' without $".

I think this is what happens when an org gets too large, it believes that its structure is necessary and thus funding to maintain said structure becomes necessary. What happens in almost all of these orgs is their purpose becomes sustaining the org not fulfilling the mission. This results in abdicating the real mission and replacing it with fundraising or other metrics equivalent to $.

I would think any "buffer" would be included into any charter agreement. The agreement would run until Feb 28/29. If the agreement states an end at Dec 31st, then the "two month buffer" is Nov& Dec. 

I am not an attorney, but mine has repeatedly  told me that "unless it is in the contract, it doesn't exist".

I would think the Chartering Agreement should include what is in the Handbook, as the agreement is what gets signed by both parties.

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

Here is my revised response. 

In case you haven't seen it there is a statement about insurance on the BSA website.  Here's the link and a snippet of it.

"Comprehensive General Liability Insurance

This coverage provides primary general liability coverage for registered adults of the Boy Scouts of America who serve in a volunteer or professional capacity concerning claims arising out of an official Scouting activity... (t)his coverage responds to allegations of negligent actions by third parties that result in personal injury or property damage claims that are made and protects Scouting units and chartered organizations on a primary basis..."

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/

Of course, until you see the policy, you can't really know what it says and who is covered.  I've always carried my own umbrella policy.

BUT, you aren't currently chartered.  I would think your safest assumption is that BSA is not providing coverage.  I say this as a COR for a Catholic parish: kick this back to your pastor to decide.  As I mentioned, the parish, which is really the diocese, has lots of youth programs, they should be able to figure out how to let you operate safely.

I would also think that without an active charter, one cannot even call it cub scouts or BSA or anything of the sort. Like calling your burger joint McDonalds without being an actual franchise.

What is currently being done is solely a church youth group, and is 0% affiliated with Scouting(tm).

I would trade wearing the sash for banning "workbooks" (except as a scout used  tool for helping them organize).

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

 

Here are an average 23 that most Scouters could (or should be able to) do without specialized training or being a professional in some field:

 

"should" being the key word.

We must also remember that many Scouters are little more than "tenderfoots" themselves.

Sadly in my area there is zero verification of competency/qualifications.

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Also, not ever den leader is as committed.  Not every den stays well structured.  Sometimes the pack meetings were the only meaningful content the cubs got over several months.   IMHO, it's part of providing a variety of options to help the cub have a good scouting experience.  ... but then again ... if it were me ... I'd cut cub scouts down to two years.  BUT, that's me ... and a very different topic.  

Den leaders not being committed sounds like a major issue. I see a parallel here to a troop where the SPL is trying to do too much b/c the PLs aren't. If the cubs arent getting a good scouting experience due to uncommitted den leaders, I am not sure a pack meeting can really bridge the gap. I am sure it is better than nothing. The den meetings are the bread&butter of the cub program. But wow! If this is the reality I feel badly for the cubs and the cubmaster.

I also agree that cubs is wayyy too long. However I have seen the age for cubs moving into a troop as too young in many cases. IMO the age/grade exception for AOL should not be there. 

wow. seems like a lot of pack meetings to me. no surprise then the amount of questions/issues from cubmasters I see here. I wonder if one solution is to extremely lessen the number of pack meetings, move more to the den level.

Question for all you Cub Leaders... how many pack meetings a year do you have? I recall 3 per year, the rest of cubs was den meetings or pack campouts.

and to continue with T2Eagles ?s,

Can you describe a typical troop meeting... agenda, roles, etc...

This discussion reminds me of the history of the Talmud, the written Torah and the Oral (Mishnah).

If the Rabbis of antiquity needed a compendium of interpretations and discussions to apply the Torah to everyday life, then I accept that us mere scouting volunteers will have difficulty following the  GTSS as it manifests in the complexities of everyday life. 

On 12/21/2021 at 7:23 PM, Eagle1993 said:

This is venturing far from bankruptcy so we may need to move some comments.  This is a very limited screen shot. Who knows.  Perhaps by pervert they mean gay.  Perhaps the first incident BSA became aware of, they put him on this list.  Would need more info to truly know.

That was my initial thought reaction as well.

I know that every survey I have completed over the years I have brought up the "Eagle as the goal" issue. Perhaps someone has been reading my survey responses?.

.

.

.

.

.

.

nah!

question... do other secured creditors "unrelated" to the survivors claims also vote on the bankruptcy provisions, or do these creditors vote on their separate piece? If the latter, how does the bankruptcy balance these since both parties are in effect in conflict?

46 minutes ago, yknot said:

I don't think the relationship has been at all transactional for most COs. Most of them have sponsored units for various altruistic reasons -- they want to support scouts or youth or the community. Most of the small church COs around here are sponsoring units where hardly anyone in the unit even goes to that church so its been for the greater good. I think it's presumptous for anyone to think that a struggling CO will risk bankruptcy itself for the privilege of continuing to sponsor a unit for BSA. BSA is treating the CO relationship as a business relationship and not a fellowship because at it's heart, that's what the relationship really is for BSA. COs aren't backing away from youth or their communities -- they are simply backing away from the BSA . 

I do not disagree. 

4 hours ago, yknot said:

My point is that there is no real upside for a CO to be involved in scouting. The upside is all on the BSA end.  

Not much upside for us volunteers either.

One might argue the COs have more upside than us mere volunteers as they can use their "sponsorship" of BSA as a marketing tool. Others might argue that giving back to the community by being a CO is (part of) the COs mission. 

Part of me is smh at even stepping into this discussion as I do not view everything as transactional; I do things without expectation of something in return. I would hope that the BSA slogan and other values are not isolated to the bsa but other individuals and organizations also do good things without reward or gain. Doing a good thing is its own reward.

I get postcards from them almost monthly asking me to join/update my info. I always viewed them as a "Whos Who" type directory, where you just pay them to be on a list and get certificates, etc... Other than these solicitation postcards, I know nothing about them.

A Co-ed troop can still operate with single gender patrols. For camping purposes it might be better anyway as it eliminates some of the issues stated.

...and they could get signed off for 3 ranks (tenderfoot, 2nd, and 1st) for completing a single activity.

adding to #6, except for mBs, all rank requirements must be completed "as a ____ scout".

Lately the continuum of behavior is far too often lumped together and called bullying. Not every interaction is bullying; I see parts of the continuum this way: rude-mean-bullying-harrassment-assault-battery 

How to deal with the situation depends on where on the continuum the situation lies. Bullying (IMO) is at the cusp of a criminal act. Bullying gone to far can be harassment which in my non-legal-training understanding is a crime in almost every state. Certainly if violence occurs, the situation has clearly crossed into the criminal. 

Earlier it was mentioned to call the police if indeed the behavior warrants it.

My guess is most of them are "honorary" and serve no real purpose except to "vote".  The executive board is where all the decions are truly made and their recommendations are rubber stamped by the full board (those actually in attendance). 

I could be totally wrong here having not read the actual bylaws, nor witnessed any E-Comm or Board meetings. But my guess tracks with how other (large) Boards with an Exec-Comm operate.

Certified guides are NOT required in the Adirondacks.

A lot in the Adirondacks. Backpacking and/or canoeing. Can also do hybrids. There are 6 million acres.

Some areas (extremely high use) have restrictions like no fires. Most areas fires are still allowed. All areas have group size restrictions for camping (maximum 9 people).  

What mileage are you looking to do each day? Also what other activities; fishing, paddling, off-trail bushwhacking, etc...