DuctTape

This poster hanging in a school is apropos for the discussion. As adults we could (and is likely it will happen in this thread) debate the language in the poster. But it does at a minimum help students make the distinction that not everything is bullying. 

The best part of the skill awards was they were akin to a "mB lite". First do skill awards for earlier ranks, then mBs for higher ranks. The system encouraged the concept of increased challenge and revisiting skills and concepts over time instead of 1-and-done. Were there issues? Of course, but IMO it was better than the current system which encourages 1-and-done instead of growth.

Many of the skills can also be taught and practiced in actual usage on campouts. Tying the correct knots when pitching tents and tarps for example. 

I agree with Barry about not doing skills and advancement on campouts EXCEPT when those skills are inherent to the campout. In fact almost all advancement and skills practice should be done "in the wild". Meaning not as isolated stand-alone items to be checked off, but as demonstrating competence in using them where they are useful. First aid notwithstanding (hopefully), although a creative PL could set-up a mock scenario.

Any scouts considering Leatherworking mB ?

1 hour ago, yknot said:

I would say it is generally localized now but coming to a school near you soon. A lot of this is the continued aftermath of the Sandy Hook school shooting and other subsequent events. We've discussed this in other posts but this is why many schools and grounds are completely monitored by video cameras and why many now have security guards and hardened exteriors. Over the past 20 years I went from being able to roam local schools almost at will if I was known to the administration. Now, parents are not allowed in schools. There are no parent volunteers. No more helping at field day or running a PTA holiday shop.  You cannot have access to school children during the school day. After school, the facility is still locked and you can only get in with your student if you are attending practice or some other event. Even our student pickup is outside. I know people think this is somehow a conspiracy against scouting but it is not. Some school districts are not yet this extreme but it is only a matter of time.  

Our area schools stopped handing out applications, etc... decades ago. I believe it was the influx of club sports. It used to be Scouts and Little League only, but then other club sports started springing up and they all wanted equal time and access to do presentations and have teachers hand out flyers. Districts not wanting to get in the middle began to make policies for "none".

6 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

This is not true. Many schools in our council allow this. It may be a local thing for you and for me. 

That is surprising. None that I am aware of provide access to students during school itself.

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think they are close to violating this; however, they have pretty much banned all outside groups which probably makes them safe from lawsuits.  We can reserve rooms (which we do) but we cannot have access to kids during the school day or have any posters, provide materials, etc.  Our schools don't even provide public class lists like most do.  We have a lot of lawyers in our community ....

And you (nor anyone else) should have access to students during the school day.

The equal access is for meetings and use of facilities and does NOT mandate schools to provide for recruitment activities to students during the school day. In years past, students were sometimes handed flyers/applications in school by their teachers or others and/or recruitment tables were set up in the cafeteria during lunch. Most (all?) public schools do not allow any of these for any outside organizations. 

I repurpose an old gatorade bottle. Slightly larger mouth than typical soda bottle, significantly lighter than nalgene. I abhor bladders for many reasons. I have zero trouble getting my water bottle in/out of the pack pocket while walking. Some packs are just designed better for this. ymmv.

Occassionally I will carry an umbrella on backpacking trips. Besides their intended purpose for rain, they also provide shade. This can often be more valuable. Another use I have found is with fire prep. I can easily prepare the tinder&kindling under the umbrella, even light the fire while holding the umbrella over it until the fire is sustainable. That said, I bring the umbrella on less than 20% of my trips.

The only idea I can think of to help with #4 is to create some type of "tag" or identifier ( by either mod or thread creator) which identifies the thread is dedicated to "on-topic". Then any tangential responses can just be deleted. Not sure how well it would work in practice.

sounds neat!

I wonder if searching the BL archives might provide some info.

edit: quick search found references in 1934 and 1937

I am so sorry to those survivors whom, through this entire process, are continually being triggered, re-traumatized etc... as reports, information etc... are reported. Stay safe and strong! You WILL get through this.

While I can appreciate the desire for a term better than grooming and understand the difficulty since the term has multiple meanings, I do not think predation while it captures the insidious nature it does not capture the trust element distinction. Grooming is predatory but what makes is distinctly different than just hunting, the purpose is for the abuser to gain the trust of its intened victim so as to exploit it. I am not sure a better word exists, nor do I think we should spend too much energy of finding one. Our energy should be spent on finding ways to eliminate the exploitation of children (and others).

High adventure does not require a specific camp like Philmont. Especially for older scouts who have planned many 3+ day camping trips, the next step is them planning and executing more adventurous excursions worthy of their skill level. If they are into canoeing, great. Find a location and plan it. With the internet it is easy to find locations nearby; routes and reviews abound online. Not just canoeing either. Backpacking, fishing, etc... Scouts planning their own adventures should be the norm, including summer camps.

50 minutes ago, yknot said:

I think that's obvious. And what better place for kids to learn the best ways to use a tool like a cell phone than scouts. 

 Not sure about how obvious my comment is. Often what I think is obvious or self-evident apparently isn't.

Agreed that scouts is the best place to learn it.

Almost all areas I go backpacking there is no cell service. It is imperative that we also ensure scouts know more than just "use the cell phone".

I hear you. Adult leader knowledge is but one resource I mentioned. I also stated handbooks, fieldbooks, mB books, and bsa recommended external resources. The entire point of these resources and the scouting program is this type of knowledge. Even rank requirements specifically reference local poisonous plants (since you mentioned hogweed).

If scouts aren't learning these, then the entire program isn't being followed. If the adult leaders don't have the knowledge, what are they doing to ensure the scouts have access to other adults and resources. This is true for all aspects of the program, not just poisonous plants and disease carrying insects.

Ticks and mosquitos have been known to carry diseases for a long time. Campsite selection, first aid, and insect bite first aid/prevention has been part of the outdoor program for almost the entire existence of BSA. The guidance is within the handbooks, fieldbooks, mB books and all the other external resources BSA recommends including CDC, FDA and other governmental resources not to mention the adult leaders knowledge. Sure it may not bein the Guide to Safe Scouting, but it is not possible to include everything, nor should it attempt to. The GTSS is NOT the program.

DoubleEagle makes an excellent point, one that not only bears repeating but expansion.

"And, the SM conference is not just a one-time requirement, but when ever the SM has a conference type tone, if there such a thing."

I would encourage a change in our mindset about SM conferences being tied in to the rank advancement. Sure, they often take place just prior to a BOR. However as DE reminds us, they are not a one-time req. I would remind us all that these conferences should be ongoing, and often. Whether the conferences are with the SM or ASMs, these are a significant opportunity to get to know the scouts, encourage them, find out what they need, etc...

We often talk (write) about sitting around with coffee watching the boys do their program, but we should not ignore a primary responsibility we have which is to regularly conference with our scouts; and not just as a rank advancement check-in. These conferences are where the SM can advise the scout about all the program goings on. Leadership development training- SM conference. Patrol method issues- SM conference. Ideas and decision making- SM conference.

Adults should be seen and not heard during the main program (unless invited to speak by the scouts). But regular SM conferences should be occuring often between scouts and SM.

How often do "you" conference with each of your scouts?

Is it only for the rank advancement and/or behaviorial issues? 

Or is it used as a method (adult association) to help the scout grow in all aspects of the program?

It appears "Peter" has checked in since his initial post. Odd he has not responded.

As I mentioned previously the Scout Slogan, "Do a Good Turn Daily" needs to be re-emphasized. It is the embodiment of the Motto, the Oath and Law. If I could define one thing which defines Scouting as unique to any other team, club, or organization with similar aims, methods, and principles it is this... Do a Good Turn Daily. 

Hi. Welcome to the virtual campfire. 

I have no knowledge of this event, nor do I know the official procedures. I would surmise the official letter had more details.

Are you involved with the troop or this scout in some way?

3 hours ago, elitts said:

I just want to clarify for those reading, it's the production of patches by a commercial business that is the trademark/copyright violation, NOT the wearing of the patch by a scout.  If some parent makes a dozen patrol patches  for the use of their own troop and isn't selling them, that will generally not run afoul copyright protections.

Copyright violations do NOT require selling or a commercial interest. One does not need to have a monetary exchange to be in violation of copyright.