EmberMike

Kids losing interest in activities is always an issue, in all activities. But somehow Scouting seems to take a harder hit than most other things, especially as kids get older. Typically the older scouts lose interest and want to leave in favor of other activities. And honestly I can't really blame them. When you can go play sports or sit at a desk studying for a citizenship badge, it's pretty obvious which one wins more often. We want to believe that Scouting is camping, hiking, high-adventure, wilderness, etc., but in reality that's only half of it, maybe less. Time spent in meeting

You certainly can oppose it, but I think we could all agree that going back on a change in what is more of a social policy is much harder than going back on a procedural policy. Especially these policies that, if reversed, would effectively kick people out of scouting. It's a much harder sell to ask National to do something that results in families being forcibly removed from the program. If I sound like I think these membership policies changes are permanent, it's because I think they are. But I certainly wouldn't say that it's impossible to reverse them. Just that the odds are much more

Same things were said a few years ago when we were debating the gay membership issue. And here we are again, with more doom and gloom predictions. Scouting will be fine. For as little impact as allowing gay members has had on the organization, allowing trans kids to join will have even less impact. As TAHAWk mentions, program is and has been the problem. One thing I think we can all appreciate this time around is that this didn't drag on for years. The decision was quick, like it or not it's done and we move on. All we can decide is if we're moving on within the BSA or moving on away from

All of the virtues mentioned in your quote (do things for themselves and other, scoutcraft, patriotism, courage, self-reliance, etc), they aren't the exclusive domain of boys. Just bolding the word boys doesn't make them things that can only be taught to boys in an all-male setting. If you changed the word to "girls", the rest of it would read just as logically and realistically as it does for boys. Yes the BSA has been a boys' organization. But the core of the program has never been dependent on gender. If someone were to hypothetically sneak through the program as a boy when in reality

The mission isn't to create "men", it's to build character, something that is not exclusive to one gender. If the military can be co-ed and still be a symbol of character, strength, even masculinity, then why not scouts? I'm really happy with this policy change. It's one that years ago I never would have thought we'd see. Lifting the ban on gay members and on transgender kids? I'm still kind of surprised it all happened. But I'm glad it did. And much like lifting the ban on gay members didn't destroy units or spell the end of the BSA, this too shall pass and everything will be just f

I'm really happy with this decision. I had already started to move on from the BSA in light of the membership policy against gay scouts and leaders. I was a paying member of the BPSA and actively involved in that organization, but now I'm pretty comfortable returning to the BSA and enrolling my son when he's of age. I get that people will leave because of this. I left because of it as well, although because I was opposed to the policy restricting gay members. So I understand that sometimes policy can push you away. I've said it before, that I couldn't be happy with myself if I brought my

The BSA has pursued some groups using the word "scout" in their name. The Baden Powell Service Association became thusly named after the BSA went after them for using the name Baden Powell Scout Association. But it is in name only that the BPSA cannot use the word "scout". They can refer to themselves as scouts and call it "scouting", use "scout" in documentation, oath, law, etc. As far as I understand it, the protection on the word "scout" is restricted to names of organizations. But the BSA doesn't own the practice of scouting. As for the Congressional charter, I think they'd survi

For some reason I can't add another comment to one of my replies above, so... @SSScout Batoning wood involves using a fixed-blade knife and a "baton" (usually another piece of wood) to drive the knife blade into a log or stock and split it. You can see a demo here: It's preferable to hatchet splitting because at no point do you need to put your fingers in harms way. Done right, you're never swinging anything towards yourself, never putting your fingers in front of the cutting edge of a blade, and you move the blade by hitting it with another object, so all of the motion is done in

You mean they ban carrying them, right? Surely possessing a sheath knife isn't banned anywhere in the US, is it? Like I mentioned above, there is a difference between carrying a knife and just having one in your tool kit. I don't think there is any law or BSA policy that would forbid a troop from having some fixed blade knives in the troop tool kit alongside axes, hatchets, saws, etc.

#2 is spot on the money. It is pure insanity to me that the BSA prefers to bring technology into the program instead of emphasizing the real thing, not the technological attempt at adventure. Instead of the gaming merit badge, where was the marketing push to say, "Like adventure video games? We've got REAL adventure." You're right, what's left of the adventure component of the BSA is so watered down it's barely a reflection of what once was.

Good lord... first the irrational fear of fixed blade knives (despite the fact that they're the safest option for some camp tasks), now the irrational fear of folding knives taken to epic new extremes. Enough already. Use real knives or don't bother at all.

The key word here to me has always been "carry". There are a lot of things kids can't/shouldn't carry, and yet we still let them use them. Axes and hatchets for example. Should the BSA ban axes and hatchets because kids could hurt themselves with them? I personally think a hatchet is more dangerous than a fixed blade knife, but even still I wouldn't advocate banning hatchets. I'm all for learning how to use tools safely, including fixed blade knives, hatchets, etc. Here's how I'd approach it. Start with introducing fixed blades as a camp tool, not as a carry item. If you jump in hoping to

As easy as it would be to blame the CO for this troop dissolving, in cases like this where you've got almost 90% of the kids not even willing to give another troop a shot there are clearly other issues going on. So it'll get blamed on the policy, or maybe the CO, even though 16 out of 18 kids didn't really want to be there even before the vote. And the majority of the parents also seemingly didn't want to bother. I have to wonder if anyone even took half an hour to make some phone calls and see if it would even be possible to secure a new CO. That troop quit on those kids. Probably y

The wheel is already showing some flat sides. But maybe we're finally starting to look in the right direction. I view the end of the belt loops in cub scouting as a positive step in that direction. Some of those belt loops were so ridiculous, so far outside of the scope of scouting. I'd suggest that some culling of the merit badge list wouldn't be a bad idea either. Do we really need 130+ badges available? I don't think so, not when they're for things that have nothing to do with the intent and purpose of scouting. The BSA seems to feel like they're missing out when they don't offer

The BSA has always had adventure to offer kids, they just package it terribly and deliver it equally poorly. They've always tried too hard to seem "cool", bringing skateboards and BMX into jambos and designing marketing materials to try and look modern and hip. But kids know when they're being sold something fake. And they're really turned off when they show up at jambo looking for adventure and have to wait in line all day to do anything. Back-to-basics works. Offer kids simple outdoor adventures and they'll give it a try. It doesn't have to include the action sport of the moment or slick

Good point. The more people move to TL, the less resistance there will be to finishing the job and letting gay parents be leaders in their kids' pack/troop. Maybe TL is making things easier for everyone. It's worth mentioning also that a lot of people did leave the BSA when invited to do so and form a new group that allowed gay scouts and leaders. That group is the Baden-Powell Service Association.

This is ridiculous. 4% drops for years and now we see a 6% drop and suddenly that's the number everyone is focusing on. Assuming we would have seen another 4% drop this year regardless of policy changes, really it's only fair to attribute maybe 2% to the policy, and even that is just a guess. What I'll be anxious to see is what happens next year or over the next 2-3 years. We knew the policy change would result in some loss. That was a given. But after the exodus (if you can call it that when it really only resulted in a 2% loss), it will be interesting to see how things go as membership

Some troops bend over backwards to entice Webelos to join. I saw one such Troop just a few weeks ago put on an amazing overnighter that, despite some bad weather, the kids loved. My nephew was among the Webelos there and he said he doesn't even need to see another Troop, he wants this one. I think you're right to view this as evidence of possible faults with the Troop. If they can't even get things right when it really matters, at a time when they have an opportunity to grow their ranks, it is probably an indication of other problems and likely indicative of standard operating procedures

moosetracker I have to disagree. Had the BSA kept this as a local decision to make, the same thing still would have happened eventually. This thing was always a powder keg. All it would take to set it off was that one district with a "no gays" policy and one kid getting kicked out and taking it to the press. That was going to happen eventually, no matter if the policy was locally or nationally set.

I think the whole thing is kind of silly when you really think about how much storage is really needed. A large closet would do in some cases, if you get a little creative with stacking boxes and building shelves. But apparently even that is too much to ask sometimes.

I don't think their oath is that similar. But even if it was, it's not like the BSA can claim that for their own. The original oath and law were written by Baden-Powell in his 1908 Scouting for Boys books, before the BSA formed. Much of the BSA program came from BP's original scouting movement over in the UK. Other scouting groups besides the BSA also use similarly worded oaths and laws. No one really owns them.

For an organization that just formed in the last few months, I find TL's growth rather impressive. They're highly organized, have a pretty complete looking program, handbooks, uniforms, units, leadership, members, they're hitting the ground running. It may seem like basic stuff to us, but think about how much time and effort it takes to start something like this, write the program, get all of the materials made, get the organizational and business stuff sorted out, etc. Based on how far they've come in just a few months, I'd regard TL as a major threat to the BSA in some areas.

TLUSA had all the pieces in place to get started long before the vote on gay scouts was cast. So yes, they used it as an excuse. They would have gone ahead with this either way, most likely. If the vote failed, they then probably would have had some other reason for breaking away.

Belief in God in terms of BSA rules is a pretty loose term, so you're right, not believing in God isn't automatically a deal-breaker. But it's not because no duty is being breached, at least not in my opinion. I think it has more to do with the fact that you can fulfill the religious/spiritual requirements of BSA membership without believing in any particular God or any god at all. Buddhism, for example, doesn't recognize a god per se (Buddha is known as and regarded as being a mortal man, not at all a god-like being) but is an acceptable belief system as far as the BSA is concerned. Duty to G

Ryan has said that he believes in God. Where is the confusion over his religious beliefs? He stated his belief, he fulfilled the requirement in as far as the BSA rules are concerned.