EmberMike

Did it say that in the application? The last version of the app I've seen just asks for gender, not providing any standard by which gender is established. If the parent talked to the pack leaders about it, which it sounds like the mother did in this case, checking the "male" box isn't necessarily fraud. We don't know exactly what was said between the parent and leaders. Maybe she asked for guidance and a leader told her to check the "male" box. We don't know, hence the "rush to judgement" I mentioned earlier.

You could have made your point quite well by just leaving it at this, that inexperienced adults are a cause of the loss of adventure in scouting. And then I would have agreed with you. But then you had to ruin your whole point and blame women and girls specifically. Women who don't even exist in some units, and girls who aren't in the Boy Scouts main program at all. It's an inexperienced adult issue, period. Many units have no women involved and they still have problems keeping up the adventure. An inexperienced male leader can be far more detrimental to the adventurous spirit of a unit t

No fraud was committed. The family was open about the fact that Joe was born a girl. Gotta love the rush to judgement here. Very scout-like.

I don't think it's fair to say this is an "again" sort of event when it's directly linked to the same previous issue. It's just the legal/civil part of the process finally playing out.

Ok, maybe a baseball hat isn't your thing, but there are other ways to look like a scout. A garrison hat pretty much screams "scout". Same for a campaign hat. My point was that a necker isn't the exclusive means by which to identify as a scout, and I think this discussion proved my point.

Oh come on. This is just too much. When a youth is wearing the logo or a symbol of a youth organization, it's no stretch of the imagination that they are a part of that organization. Would you seriously expect to see a kid wearing a BSA hat if they're not a scout?

Trail Life didn't adopt neckers into their program. Wonder why, if it's such an integral part of the scout image and they brought in so many other aspects of BSA scouting into what they do.

Kids here are just fine, no pity needed. But thanks for your concern. I don't think the neckerchief makes kids quit or refrain from joining in the first place. I do think it's a piece of a larger issue of the perception of scouting, though. At least regionally. Sounds like the necker is embraced in some units and some parts of the country. In some areas it does seem like kids would much rather go without them. National seems to have ditched them, at least for the most part among leadership. I was just wondering what other people thought and if this was maybe a trend headed towards

I'm a little lost on this one. I don't recall suggesting a nationally standardized hat. If that's what you were getting at. If hats aren't your thing, what about t-shirts? Remember I was talking about hats in the context of something worn when not in uniform that serves to identify someone as a scout. Surely a t-shirt can't be problematic. Or does that also need to be able to be stuffed in a pocket?

Sorry guys, I'm not buying it. There are a dozen ways to identify as scouts, neckers are just one option. Hats, t-shirts, patches, etc., stuff kids wear even outside of scouting activities. Any kid wearing something with a BSA symbol/text/trefoil on it is going to be recognizable as a scout. I'd even argue that we'd likely see kids wear scout gear more often and outside of scout functions if we were encouraging them to wear a scout hat than a necker. What kid would wear a necker alone while not at a pack/troop activity? I can already hear resistance I'd get if I told my son to wear a neck

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself. Maybe at World Jambo it might be a question kids get, but generally, not likely. Besides, look at the co-ed thread discussion and you'll see plenty of opposition to doing anything in the BSA simply because it's done in other countries. In fact, a more likely question from a non-US scout would be, "Where are the girls?"

Shouldn't we be encouraging them to make their own decision about this optional part of the uniform? I'd love to see some thoughtful debate among the boys about the pros/cons, personal opinions, etc., leading up to a vote on the topic.

The BPSA was originally the Baden-Powell Scout Association, until the BSA stepped in. They changed "Scout" to "Service" in the name. But they do still use the terms "scout" and "scouting" in their program. I think as long as it's not in the name, it's allowed.

Let's hope he doesn't give in to pressure from within his party to dump public lands. So far he seems to favor protecting public land. Finger crossed that he keeps with that stance...

Well if the sports angle is "We'll teach your kid how to win," I think a comparable slogan for scouts would be "We'll teach your kid how to lead."

Just saw this pop into my email: https://www.buckknives.com/collection/bsa/ These look pretty awesome. I'm a big fan of Buck to begin with, and I have just about every knife in their Vantage line. And the Spitfire is a great little scout knife. I actually gave one to my nephew when he crossed over and joined a troop. The only thing I wish they didn't do on these is put that plastic edging around the Vantage handles. They used to make them solid material all the way to the edges. So a knife like the BSA one with the rosewood handles, they would have been fully wood on each side. Now th

Thank you for the clarity. You have valid arguments against co-ed, but they get lost in your "girls don't want to use latrines" idea. Which, as I previously mentioned, is a non-issue for some camps and I don't think should be a reason for ruling out co-ed. We could make co-ed a local option for councils that have adequate camp facilities. I still don't see the reason to rule it out for every unit when it's not a universal problem. I'm all for debating this issue on real concerns that have a real impact on large numbers of units. The toilets argument, however, is a straw man. Financial bur

If you're so worried about girls not wanting to use a latrine, then really you have nothing to worry about. Girls would take one look at most summer camp facilities and run away, right? So problem solved, you don't have to worry about girls in Boy Scouts. Or we could just let the girls decide for themselves. Truly let them decide if they can handle a latrine or if, like you suggest, they'd want nothing to do with it and therefore shouldn't be in Boy Scouts. We could also maybe try to not make policy based on the facilities of some camps. All 3 of the local summer camps I've spent time in

A comment in another thread got me thinking again about the stigma of being a scout, wearing the uniform and having friends see you in public as a scout when it's not considered a "cool" thing to do. When I was a kid, the neckerchief was often the most despised part of the uniform, and some of us opted for bolos instead, although in hindsight I'm not sure it was any better of a look. I've never been involved in a unit that voted to not wear neckerchiefs, although I've heard of some that do vote to go without them. Historically they served a practical purpose, but they were also larger bac

It sounds like this unit is toxic all around. Council will definitely need to be involved, not only to help with the completion of this one scout's Eagle, but also to deal with this mess of a troop in which it seems like none of the adults involved are interested in doing right by the boys. Like SSScout mentioned, Council should help with getting all of the scouts into new units before they all lose interest while the charter and leadership languish.

Really? That's the mind-boggling part of all of this? How about, girls tent with girls, boys tent with boys. Done. Toilets and the name of the organization: how does this discussion always devolve down to these silly issues? I've camped with girls at a boy scout summer camp. They're fine with latrines. It's a non-issue.

They can change the name. In fact they almost certainly would if they go co-ed. This keeps coming up and it's ridiculous. The name of an organization is not an contract by which the organization is bound for eternity. Organizations change names all the time, and plenty of other scouting organizations made exactly that kind of change to go co-ed. Let's stop pretending that the name should have any bearing on the discussion of whether or not to allow girls.

The program is the same, the requirements for every badge and rank can remain the same, there's really no need to change anything. One of the arguments one of the girls who wants to be an eagle scout has made is that she's followed along in everything her brother did on his trail to Eagle. She has already proven that the program does not need to change to accommodate girls. I'm really confused as to why all of a sudden the program would have to change just because it goes co-ed, when one of the biggest arguments for co-ed is that girls want to do the same stuff boys are doing. It's al

It's still the same. Unless you're re-writig the handbooks and requirements, it's the same steps to get to the next rank, same requirements to earn Eagle. Your analogies make no sense. You're comparing things that were fundamentally different to begin with. No matter how many nonsensical comparisons you make, the BSA program as it's written today is the same program tomorrow even if girls are allowed.