EmberMike

To be fair, you could say the same about the BSA having a broader mission than just the outdoor program (some might argue that it's far too broad, and I'd agree), and yet the BSA is far better at teaching outdoor skills and encouraging their units to get their boys outside, get dirty, learn scoutcraft/bushcraft, etc. Oddly enough, the GSUSA could very easily encourage more outdoorsy stuff without compromising the core areas. Want to teach cooking lessons? Do it on a camping trip. Want to teach sewing? Crafty stuff? Take a day hike into the woods and do it there. Needles and thread pack eas

Glad to see the Sports & Academics Program and belt loops going away. A lot of those seem like just a rubber stamp. Kids on the soccer team get the soccer award, etc. Scouting doesn't need to be the place where they get another recognition for having already done something completely outside of the principles of scouting. I wish they'd make more changes like this and make scouting more back-to-basics outdoors stuff, scoutcraft, camping, etc.

I like this. It's a far better alternative than most other products out there for charging phones. Most battery-powered chargers like the Eton products are mostly useless for charging phones. The hand-crank devices are totally useless. You can maybe get enough of a charge for a minute of talk time after a really long time cranking. This seems more practical. To an extent anyway. I do wonder how this would work in an open campfire, if the water container is fire-proof, etc.

Most cell towers have backup power. So even if power is down to an area, the towers will stay up for hours, days, possibly even a week or more if the backup is sufficient.

So not many members have left, sponsors who dropped units were easily replaced, and scouting is moving on like not much happened. I hate to pull an "I told you so," but, well... And since this hasn't been the big catastrophe that many expected, I think it's safe to restate that having an official policy to allow gay adults be leaders would also not result in any exodus or closing of units due to sponsor loss. But of course we'll need to go through years of debate again before that happens and then we can all sit here like we are today talking about how silly it was to even worry abo

If gay leaders were the main issue, that wasn't made clear by those fighting against the change. We heard lots of reasons, all seemingly given equal footing, for why all gays should be kept out of scouting. Gay kids sharing tents, gay kids hitting on straight kids, gay kids influencing other kids to suddenly turn gay, and of course the simple religious reasons citing the Scout Oath and Law as the basis for why gay kids can't be scouts. But now we see the backpedaling. I guess no one wants to be on the losing side of the issue now that it has been decided, at least as far as the kids are co

That's sort of what I was thinking. If it's a big deal to him that he only participate in the organization under the current policy, he still has until the end of the year to finish up. Tell him to just bang out the rest of his requirements and he can proudly say that he got his Eagle rank under the discrimination-era BSA.

Leaving for other activities is one thing. Leaving for this upcoming new OnMyHonor.Net hate group, that would just be especially sad.

I really didn't think the vote would go over 60% for the winning side, regardless of which side won. And I use the word "won" loosely because it's hard to say that this is a true win for anyone even though I am satisfied with the vote. I also didn't think the resolution would pass, so I guess I was wrong twice on this one. Just read that OnMyHonor.Net will be meeting with like-minded parents and former BSA members and leaders who won't participate in the BSA any longer in light of this vote with the goal of chartering a new organization. Obviously I'm not a fan of their message or v

In case you haven't heard yet, the vote is in, and the ban on gay youth is being lifted. 61% voted to lift the ban. Edited to add: Oops, just saw the other thread about this.

I agree, BP, this is a no-win any way you look at it. Either way, the argument lingers on. Scouts for Equality has stated that they won't back down no matter which way the vote goes. And they can't really. They set out to end discrimination of gay youth and adults, and neither voting option solves their end goal. Same for the groups opposed to the resolution. Either way, their fight continues on as well. This is a huge black cloud over the BSA that shows no signs of clearing up.

You'r right, eaglewolfdad, my son isn't yet of scouting age, so technically I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do have a history with scouting, spending 12 years of my youth in the organization, and I have a sincere hope that my son (and any future kids of mine) will have an interest in pursuing scouting themselves. Shouldn't that allow me some say in what happens to the organization that I was once a part of and fully expected to be in the near future? I agree it would be sad to turn my back on the BSA and move on to other things. But I truly believe that there are good alternatives

If the vote reaffirms the policy, the fight ends for me today. There's not much more I'm willing to do to try and help get the BSA on the right path.

On the one hand, I applaud these councils that stand up against the policy. On the other hand, I think it's a potentially dangerous proposition. As we saw in the case of Ryan Andresen, it only takes one person at the district level to stop an Eagle Scout application from going through, even if the troop and the Board of Review determines that a scout is fit to receive the rank. I think it's a potentially risky move to allow kids to enter the organization with no guarantee that even if they do the work and satisfy the requirements on paper, they can still be denied an earned rank. It puts t

What issues? What should I know about?

I'm not all up on the letter of the law, but I still believe that any sex act between an adult and someone under 18, male or female, same sex or opposite sex, it's still illegal. Even if the definition of pedophilia ends at 13 (is that accurate? Got a cite?) 13-17 is still abuse.

At risk of using an already over-used cliche paraphrasing of a Ben Franklin quote, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." The minute we say that it is better to ere on the side of safety and protection at the cost of the freedom of all boys to participate in something as apple-pie-American as Scouting, even when we're talking about protecting our children, that is the moment in which I believe that the BSA is lost. And we might possibly see that moment arrive on Thursday. Short of some definitive scientific proof emerging, linking homosexuality to abuse, I can't imagine pu

AZMike, you're assuming that homosexuality is a choice. I have yet to see any compelling evidence to support that. Morality is irrelevant when we're talking about something that people have no more say in than you or I have in our heterosexuality.

Just making assumptions here, but if 63% of all Americans favor letting gays into the BSA, I'd suspect that the percentage of people currently within the BSA who also favor this is far lower. Not basing this on anything scientific, just a gut feeling that we won't see that high of a number in the vote next week in favor of changing the policy. I'd be surprised to see anything other than numbers in the 50s. I guess if you really think about it, this all does represent America very well. We rarely decide anything by large margins. We pick out presidents typically by 51% to 49%, give or tak

Why would they be sued out of business? They're not doing anything illegal. BSA forced them to take "Scout" out of their name, they did, there's nothing else legally that the BSA can claim ownership of. Scouting is a global movement, the BSA doesn't own it.

To be fair, the BSA has a century more history than the BPSA, so the big difference in membership numbers is expected. More significantly, I'd look at the percentage growth of the BSA vs. the BPSA, which I'm sure will be significantly higher for the BPSA and will continue to remain so regardless of how the vote goes next week. I'd expect that BPSA growth rate to increase significantly if the BSA vote reaffirms the membership policy.

There are more groups than Lone Scouts, something like 24 groups around the country at present and far fewer Lone Scouts. I think the emphasis in the BPSA is definitely on groups, as they encourage people to go the Lone Scout route only after encouraging people to reach out to their community and try to find enough people to charter a new group. And they do have something of an Eagle equivalent, although with not quite the same eloquence in the name (The George Washington Award doesn't have the same ring to it as Eagle Scout). However the real value in the Eagle Scout name and rank comes f

To me, the big deal is that I'm currently inactive in Scouting, but with my son quickly approaching Scouting age and my wife and I planning to get him involved in Scouting as soon as he's able, we face the dilemma of having to decide whether to enter back into the organization after a vote that will either reaffirm a discriminatory policy or start the process of ending it. If the vote reaffirms the policy and we still decide to put our son in the program, I feel like we're saying that it's ok to discriminate. I honestly think it's a different story for parents of kids already in the BSA. A

The King has it right. Most people have met many gay people in their lives and not known it. I sat 10 feet away from a gay guy at the place I worked several years back. Sat right there next to him, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, working together, talking, B.S.-ing about whatever, etc., for 2 years. I never knew he was gay. He was a guy's guy, grew up in a rural little town out west, was an ice-hockey player in a local adult league, loved the Star Wars films, there was nothing about his outward appearance or his personality that would make you think anything about his sexual preference. Or if

I'd jump into the BPSA with both feet before I'd get back into the BSA with little chance of ever seeing the policy of discrimination ending.