Krampus

Was adult-led. Webelos III. The boys had a tough time learning to adapt to older patrol life the following year because that initial development was delayed. Taught over-reliance on adults to manage their patrol business. Some adults more authoritative than others in running their patrols. Could not get Guides to take over NSPs because they saw them as "Kindergartens". Retention rate of first year scouts was roughly 60-65% for the 8 years we had the NSPs. After we switched to mixed patrols, retention went up to nearly 90% in that first year, scouts were trained to take over patrol positions because they learned a great deal rather than relying on adults to do it all for them. As others here are fond of saying, your mileage may vary.

I'm not inferring anyone was dishonest. I am implying they were incompetent!! The parents should have read and understood what they were signing their kid up for. Only a narcissist would not fully read (and understand) what they are getting their 9 year old in to. The unit leaders not only missed this on the original application, but also on the subsequent SMC for Scout and every other chance they had to catch this (summer camp med forms, permission slips, etc.). If they used TroopMaster (or most other software) the entering of the DOB (correctly) would have caught this too. The council is the last line in this miserable chain. At very least entering the DOB in the council system should have caught this. To be clear: Not the Scout's fault, but he may suffer anyway. It is called life. I may not be at fault if an uninsured motorist hits my car, but no one else is gonna pay DESPITE me doing everything right. Sometimes YOU have to pay for the mistakes of others....and you will learn a valuable lesson in the process. Let's not rob this kid of that chance.

@@Stosh, this is the whole mind set of the "don't blame anyone" crowd. There's no personal accountability in the face of difficult situations. The parents won't do the right thing and re-register the kid. The unit leaders won't do the right thing and accept responsibility for not checking the application nor checking at all his subsequent SMCs to make sure his requirements were properly done. The council won't do the right thing and make a decision. It's easier to find a scapegoat and sweep this under the rug. Let the kid earn Life and become the youngest Eagle on record. He'll be the Roger Maris of BSA with an asterisk by his name.

ROFL...if he were my son I'd encourage him to plan monthly camp outs and send the activity plan to the SM to implement. That would get him off his Lazy-Boy.

So his mom and dad screwed up and the best example we can give him is not hold anyone accountable for their mistake? What does that teach him? Since when did adherence to the rules and obeying the laws become a lesson we didn't want our kids to learn? How about this Fred, what about ALL THE OTHER KIDS that obeyed the rules? How courteous is your approach to them? Trustworthy? The trust was broken when mom and dad failed to read the joining requirements. What about honesty? Missed that lesson did we? How about loyalty to ALL THOSE OTHER KIDS who played by the rules? When we start picking which rules we want to live by you start down a slippery slope. There's nothing biased about anything I have said. It is YOU that are biased toward one scout. *I* want to apply the rules even to EVERYONE. If that is biased then we have a very different set of definitions. I want a level playing field for everyone. I want accountability for the parents, council and unit leaders. That's not bias, that's playing by the rules. Scout's follow rules. This is the very first rule a Scout needs to follow. Break this, what else are we going bend or break?

Oh, then take it off now. If your WB'ers are anything like the guys in my area, they will take any opportunity to point out the things wrong with your uniform. Why give them fodder?

Even council makes mistakes. Just read some the current threads about membership, recharter, etc., to see how. At least you had the good sense to ask the question. You will go far in Scouting.

Well there's a whole lot wrong with this scenario. First thing I would put an end to as a parent: Don't text my kid UNLESS you text my wife or me too. That's a violation of no 1 on 1 contact. I always copy parents on text msgs or emails. Phone calls I always do on speaker phone with another adult in the room.

In your opinion it is "wrong" to say start over. There are many who feel it would be wrong to let it stand without enforcing the rules. There are two life lessons the Scout can learn. First, is the one you profess: It's not your fault so blame someone else and benefit from the mistake. Second, it's not his fault BUT sometimes you get the shaft when it is someone else's fault and YOU still suffer. The first one produces a person who is like all the other blame-stormers out there who won't take accountability for anything. The latter produces someone who knows right from wrong and preservers in the face of adversity. I'd want my kids to be the latter. We have a whole society of the former.

According to BSA's own website, only youth wear it. http://www.scouting.org/Home/Awards_Central/RecruiterStrip.aspx

You can't be eligible to earn anything if you are not properly a member. The join requirements were NOT met. A mistake was made. If your tax return comes back with a 10,000 refund but you actually owe $500, do you get to keep the 10K. Give back only $9,500? Or do you give back the whole 10k AND pay the $500 you owe? Doesn't matter who made the mistake. What matters is "was he eligible"? The answer is no. Period....unless you have the power to change the BSA join requirements. If BSA erroneously gave someone Eagle, would they take it back? In a heart beat.

This is an issue for your troop committee and the charter organization. They employ the SM and he serves at their leisure. If you are on the TC then you can bring up the issue. From what you've said I'd have my son set up a meeting with the TC chair and discuss his interactions (or lack thereof) with the SM. BUT, I would do this AFTER he's done with his Eagle.

By ALL MEANS let's hold the adults responsible. The SM and TC should step down if they missed this AND let it continue. How can you have an SMC without reviewing someone's ENTIRE record? The council folks that accepted the application without checking it and validating (assuming it was correctly filled out with the wrong data) should be re-assigned and not have a role that requires any such validation work. Mom and dad should not be allowed to hold any role that requires sign off on anything since they couldn't read and understand the BSA joining rules. In terms of the Scout, no he himself did not break any rules, per se. He's following what mom and dad allowed to happen, what the SM/TC did not catch and what council allowed to happen. BUT, just like the Miss Columbia didn't make a mistake, she was nevertheless de-crowned. Not her fault, but right is right. Same here. The Scout is not to blame, but he should not benefit from someone else's mistake.

This should be no different than if you have a scout who gets signed off on a Star requirement before he has earned First Class. You cannot complete a requirement if you are not eligible. You can't complete your POR for Star if you are Second Class. Doesn't matter. We, as a society, have to teach the scout a lesson that sometimes OTHERS will screw up and YOU will get the shaft. It's called LIFE!! By giving him a pass we teach him that rules don't matter. Think of the life lesson this kid will learn about accountability. At his age rather than be bitter he'll probably say, "Okay, let's earn it again." No, I am comparing the breaking of rules and process. If we break the joining rules and allow a 9 year old to start earning stuff, why not break the age-restriction rule on the other end and allow anyone after 18 to earn Eagle? Why have age restrictions if you are not going to follow them? It is called accountability. Who said kids should not be subject to it too? That's what the BSA program is all about. Why shield the kid?

So now we are going to allow boys to earn awards before they are eligible? Should I tell my 17 year old he can finish his Eagle whenever he likes now? C'mon folks. If we don't start holding people to rules and regulations you are going to grow old in a world where your doctor will "try" to save your life, but won't really put his heart in to it. :et's have SOME pride, shall we?

So he joined early. Do over anything done before valid join date. Starts at scout. Done.

Besides his pro-life stance, what other things has he done that align him with the conservative wing of Catholics? I don't know many Catholic leaders that condone abortion. Do you? That does not make him conservative relative to the Church, that puts him smack dab on the average spectrum. It puts him to the right in secular society, but hardly makes him a conservative Catholic.

I'd send him the BSA link about how the 2016 requirements are to be implemented. There's nothing there that says a FC Scout as of 1/1/16 has to even use the 2016 requirements. He can get Star under the 2015 requirements as long as he earns it in 2016. If he waits past 1/1/17 he has to use the 2016 requirements. In fact the requirement can even be waived if a Scout does not have access. Sound like the ASM is full of bull.

We've done three in an evening in the decentralized model. In fact, another rep in another unit did a few on the same night. Using the distributed model on that one night they did 5 EBORs. If needed, they could do more...would just need another district rep. I think each model may work well depending on the district and the troops involved. A centralized model would never work in my district. There would just be no time to get all the EBORs done. The added flexibility of the decentralized model seems to work well for everyone's schedule. Spoke to may district rep this past week...he said he'd step down if they went to a centralized model. Evidently they tried it at one point and it was a mess.

Based on what?

If a unit is focused on advancement then, yes, I think we run that risk. If a unit is focused on FUN over advancement, then those boys seeking a fast Eagle go elsewhere. Our unit has lost a handful (6 max) of boys over the last 8 years who wanted Eagle over outdoors. Fine. There are units that will cater to them. But the vast majority of our guys want to be outdoors. They may find other things that take their interest away from scouting, but that's going to happen with anything. My biggest regret is a Scout who was a sure-shot Eagle, SPL and hall of fame scout. Gave it all up at 13 for "other stuff". He was just so busy with trying to make it in to college that scouting go in the way. Imagine that, being worried about making a top college at 13!!!! I wanted to tell him that where he goes to college does not matter when he's looking for that first job.

Agreed. In our unit we try to get the word out that we discourage such things and hope those scouts looking for that easier path choose a different unit.

Merit badge colleges, First Class in one year, summer camp MB mills, troop meetings focusing on rank advancement rather than outdoors and fun, helicopter parents, watered-down requirements, etc. I'd say there's your smoking gun.

Yes. Historically we used to average 2-4%, Now we are around 6-8%. Sometimes it is higher or lower.

Our unit has a POR requirement for most troop positions of being First Class. In the past previous SMs used that as a rule. We now use them as guidelines. When a boy has earned the trust of the senior leaders (and SM) he's encouraged to take a role.