Krampus

That's not the point. We are lay people so we can ONLY go by what the documents we have say to us. This one CLEARLY says that assets DO NOT summarily go to the CO. So if @@hicountry is going to take the stance he is, it is not totally outside the scope, if not intent of the CO agreement. We've been chatting about how the assets "belong to the CO". I am merely pointing out that, according to BSA Rules and Regulations, this is not the case. I don't see anything in the bylaws that gives the CO a unit's assets either.

I may not fully understand your point. I understood you to say that you felt out of sorts because you were a leader but not really in an official capacity, is that right? You've got a lot to offer any group. I just figured "making it official" would take away any conundrum you've been presented with.

What bothers me in all this is everyone here is assuming the assets "belong" to the CO. They do....to a degree. According to BSA's own Rules and Regulations (Article XI, Section 2 (b) says, "In the case of a chartered organization [declaring bankruptcy], any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the char- tered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America." So the gear and money would not default to the CO, but rather to a trust to be held for the unit or a unit. Clearly BSA does not intend to allow the CO to liquidate the gear and use the unit money to pay off debt.

And that makes it right? Please. Love the situational ethics.

I don't get the same treatment coaching my daughter's soccer team. It may be somewhat pervasive, but the classic institutions should know better.

@@hicountry, for my money you don't have to justify your position. I think several (if not many) share that point of view given the circumstances. This is why we do not hold too much money at any one time. We also have listed assets of the unit (few) and listed assets which are "on loan" to the unit from a "friends of" organization. This protects the unit in case any one comes looking for our assets....not that our CO ever would.

Nope. This is pervasive across GSUSA. This is not local. This is local, region and across the country. It is a bigoted reaction based on fear. If this were a racial or gay issue it would be in the press all the time. Because it happens to heterosexual men (mostly white by the demographics) it does not make for money-making press.

Not going to get it to it with you. My comments stand. GSUSA are hypocrites for embracing one set of people while essentially vilifying heterosexual fathers for wanting to volunteer and camp with their daughters. It's ironic that we are not allowed to assume gay BSA leaders will have sex with boys, but we can assume the heterosexual fathers will have sex with the friends of their teenage daughters. Double standard? Yup!

You create arguments out of nothing. GSUSA is the topic, not my condemnation of the archbishop.

This is where the council training person can come in handy. We got equivalency for leaders who were obviously trained above the BSA baseline. It takes a bit more time, and may not always work, but so far we have never been turned down.

I hope you are wrong at how stupid we assume people are. Using that example above then we can assume most people think the Obama administration supports the repressive stance by the Iranian government with regard to human rights simply by the fact our administration is negotiating with them.

We should be shocked that you could find a few hundred liberals to open check books for a cause? I'd be more shocked if they had supported a father's right to volunteer and be treated like he's a decent human being, rather than assuming he's a degenerate.

Sounds like you need to register and become the sage old guy who sits quietly around the campfire but drops the "pearls of wisdom" for the boys to pick up. You can also offer the SM the advice of which battles to pick. You've been around. You know how to manage kids and adults. You just need to make it official.

He will need to make sure he classifies his costs correctly, though. There are materials, supplies, tools and services. He will need to document the unif price of each and calculate tax (if paid). If there were any in-kind contributions he will need to do the same and note their value. Hopefully he has an adult leader in the unit guiding him with questions. This should be something he does on his own with little input from mom and dad. If he's not able to do that he may be too young for the badge. He's got time so I'd suggest just letting him do it. If it takes him 3 months or 3 years, it's *his* journey.

I always have to laugh. GSUSA goes out of their way to accommodate all these different groups, but continues to vilify and make unwelcome any heterosexual father who wants to volunteer and camp with his daughter's troop; assuming we are all perverts at heart. The irony is unbelievable.

Urban legend reported by some media. My company supports these two organizations (among others) specifically in the area of old media data archiving. If they have data, we have given them the means to read it. It is what keeps guys over 50 employed because none of the younger guys know how to fix the hw or how to program the software.

Sorry to report that proximity to national has no guarantee of BSA data precision either. Went to a council camp, took training, not recorded or reported. Had I not kept my own cards and gone, on my own, to council to straighten it out I would not have gotten credit for nearly 50 hours of training! Last year, after 12 years in the BSA records, my entire training history was wiped out online. Even my user ID was wiped out. Called BSA. Spoke to their technical team (think guy by a computer with little understanding of how their system actually works) and was told 1) Sorry for the mistake, 2) There's no way to get my data back (Me thinking: A major national organization has NO data back up for production data??!!), 3) They can restore my user ID but there will be no data behind it, and 4) If I want to go to the council office they will help be reconstruct my records PROVIDED *I* had all the training cards. And they want my unit data for ScoutBook? Moral of the story: Keep annual printed back-up of your BSA records. Keep an archive of your Internet Advancement records. If BSA have another data loss incident those are the only records that might be around to prove anything. I'll never give BSA any data without having my own digital AND hard copy back-up.

BSA hasn't rolled that out nationally YET??? Geesh, I thought that was done in 2011. They required that as a pilot program in my council/district back in 2010, so we made sure EVERY leader had IOLS and leader-specific as a baseline. We then required all leaders to complete all the online training (weather, safe trek/climb, etc.). All leaders doing high adventure do WRFA too. I guess living so cloe to Irving I assumed BSA kept their word and rolled out the IOLS/leader-specific requirement nationally. Sad they didn't. In my area it is easy. If you are not fully trained you can't wear the patch. We provide it BTW. We even have a dad who has needle and thread at every meeting. He will sew it on your uniform in less than 5 mins. We had a similar issue. As I noted, I live in an area that was subject to the 2010 pilot program to have all SMs and ASMs fully trained. I had to make sure several long-serving SMs got trained up or they could not be leaders. This caused much contention, but we ameliorated the problem by meeting with all the leaders, reviewing the training offered, noting why the boys deserve to have leaders who knew the training, and discussed how to get them trained. The unit even paid for the training. In one case we had a father who was an EMT. He'd been a combat medic in the Marines (four tours) with a recon group. Making him get wilderness first aid training was a laugh, so we found a way to get him certified without having to waste one of his weekends. Another dad was a master-diver. He offered to run the water safety class after we found someone in council to sign off on his "equivalency" in swimming/boating given his 30 years as a master-diver, lifeguard and merchant sailor. Maybe this approach might work for you. If you can find a way to recognize their "mastery" of a subject they might be more inclined to either a) demonstrate their mastery, or b) shut up and take the training. They can't profess to be God's Gift to being trained AND not somehow demonstrate that mastery.

You can't be a little bit pregnant. I'd register and make it official. You have a lot to offer, why not just register and talk to the new unit as to what your role will be?

Gotta agree with this. Getting your nose out of joint is one thing. Taking it out on the kids (by not attending these events) is another.

I'd make sure they are not wearing the "trained" patch. Technically they cannot be considered a "trained" leader without those basic classes, so they cannot be counted as part of the trained adult leadership for summer camp, high adventure or any other BSA event. I'd make sure they know that and then give them the IOLS sign up sheet.

I am glad my unit has never had a long-serving (greater than 6 years) SM. We've built a sense of stewardship within the unit, so it is expected that the SM will step down someday. I think that builds an awareness in the program that the mantle of leadership -- just like with the Scouts -- needs to be passed on to a new generation.

I would hope that when I reach that point I will have the good sense to realize that the unit needs to be passed on to someone to do what I can no longer do. @@Stosh gives good advice.

I would think the role of the Pack Committee would be spelled out here with supporting detail here and here. Not sure of Cubs have a document like this for Troop Committees, but if they do I suspect a few folks here will know where it is.

Well, our guys have one pair of uniform shorts they bring for arrival day, pictures, etc. Uniform shirts and pants get stowed while on the trail. We weare crew shirts and other BSA (casual) gear on the trail. Once at Philmont you don't need to stay in BSA uniform. Our guys try to stay ultra-light, so there's not a whole lot of clothing changes on the trail. If going over 7 days we arrange for a re-supply with Philmonth staff. Our guys swear by the Magellan hiking, cargo and switchbacks. You can find a few pairs in olive green...pretty darn close to the BSA green.