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ScouterPaul You have described 95% of the 11 year olds I have met. Gee... All this time I thought the discussion about the True Religion was about Islam. Boy, was I surprised when the discussion turned to Christianity. I thought BSA was supposed to be INCLUSIVE. I respect the religious fervor of some on this thread and would never try to dissuade them from their beliefs. Too bad they couldn't respect mine (regardless of what it is), because if mine isn't theirs, then apparently mine is WRONG. The Christian fanatic is no different than the Muslim fanatic is no different than

Jason OK But BSA is changing. There are women Scoutmasters. The uniform has changed. The requirements have changed... When the membership has dwindled and we can't attract the numbers, it will change again. So your point is...? BadenP, I earned Eagle in 1969. I was a Cubmaster, ASM, Troop MC and now a Venture Advisor. I am a District Chairman and our district got Quality District 4 years in a row, thanks mostly to the hard work of our DE and a terrific District Committee. I am a James West Fellow. I have learned a tremendous amount from the forums. I disagree a lot w

FB You hit it right on the head. Instead of saying Baal, the Scout need only substitute the word God. He would successfully answer every question posed concerning duty to God and reverence (unless this religion did not allow for the respect of the beliefs of others). No one would know the difference and he would complete the requirements for his Oath and Law. The real problem is when the True Believers view all other religions as just another Baalism (?) and then have a problem with the Scout's duty to God.

The Morman families I know (of which I am not one) are very cohesive and goal oriented. I think the rapid advancement that is seen in their units is not because they make it easier for the youth, but because they encourage it and promote it. A good friend of mine has 5 boys, all of whom are Eagle Scouts. I believe each of these boys earned the rank without question.

On page 13 of the BSHB it says, "for outdoor activities, Scouts may wear troop or camp T-shirts with the Scout pants or shorts". This is what most scouters call a class B uniform. It is simply easier to have a name for it Bob.

An organization that does not evolve with changing times will fail to survive.

Nice post. My son gets his driver permit next month too. He and I have been accepted as Sub-camp staff at the National Jamboree next year- medical. He has lost interest in regular troop meetings and activities and moved on to Venturing. He is not going to Scout camp this year, but he did go to a tennis camp and is on a swim team now. I was very pleased that he did well in Scouting while he was active.

I am surprised this thread has not invited comment about not wearing full uniforms. Although true it is not "required", it is implied that scouts should were the official full uniform. On page 12 and 13 of the BSHB, it describes the complete official uniform and says "wear full uniforms for all ceremonial and indoor activities, such as troop meetings, courts of honor, and most other indoor functions." It doesn't seem to mention blue jeans anywhere. Our troop bylaws require that the boys wear their full uniforms. When first passed, there was no enforcement. This sent a message to the b

"Why would a parent do that to their child?" Do what? Allow their child to join an organization that the child wants to join? Gee, I don't know. Maybe because it is for the child and not the adult. My dad could have cared less that I was a Boy Scout. But I sure enjoyed it. It helped to define me and I am a better man because of it. "an organization that defines itself largely by its insistence on duty to God" Really? Most 11 year olds think it is defined largely by outdoor skills and having fun. I think the organization is defined by the Scout Law of which reverence is a relativel

"but don't apply for membership in the BSA" "there is no benefit to either." Hardly a realistic attitude. I don't recall your criteria in the joining requirements. BSA is lucky they don't think like you do or the ranks of Scouting will be depleted. Oh, but they will certainly have a higher quality of Scout! The kid may want to join because of his interest in the activities. He went to his first meeting and it seemed like a lot of fun. Most 11 year old boys are far from understanding or attaining the values and behavior that BSA espouses. The influence of and exposure to these value

It doesn't really matter. Baden-Powell set it up this way. National supports it this way. The thread on dissent discusses trying to change it, but that is unlikely for the forseeable future. The values of Scouting ARE noble. You can argue that Change in an organization like BSA SHOULD be slow and difficult. The atheist or agnostic who recognizes the values of the organization and want their boys to benefit from it may be willing to compromise and allow them to participate over some of their objections to the religious aspects of scouting. Hypocrisy? Maybe their boys just want to g

Each religion that claims to be the only way to God is mutually exclusive of every other religion. This shows an arrogance that says "only I can be right." There is only one Supreme Being and God is the same for all. Too bad the true believers don't recognize or accept this. Maybe the atheist can do better than much of the hypocritical behavior of many true believers, but this is irrelevant. BSA requires duty to God and reverence which still excludes the atheist.

Achilleez You have opened yourself to the argument of all TRUE believers, whether Christian, Muslim or whatever that God HAS done a good job of telling us what to do... You just have to read the right book and follow the right rules. Gnos- to know. A- not. An agnostic may believe in God but not be willing to commit to an acceptance of the religions that have "the answers," since the agnostic cannot know. But to get back to Scouting, the Scout has to do his duty to God (as he has been taught or believes) and be reverent which includes respecting the beliefs of others. The Hindu Sc

Touche' scoutldr. Furthermore, scout leaders don't get it if they are willing to take the risk of liablility for the care of these kids by dispensing their medications or allowing the kids to take them (or not) themselves. As most summer camps require, give the medications to the Camp Health Lodge and let them deal with it.

Perhaps the mention of Bob White has something to do with his 4,878 posts to the Forum.

Bob White said, "Our junior leaders are trained to do two to a tent regardless of the capacity". OK, so you train them that there should only be 2 to a tent. Is it then alright when they decide 3 or 4 to a tent is ok? I see all the reasons to limit the number of kids in a tent, but don't see it as a major issue.

It is fairly clear from the Forum that MANY scouters fail to follow the rules of BSA, either through ignorance or intent. A SM not allowing advancement for arbitrary reasons-"your son is not assertive enough", comes to mind in a recent thread. Or maybe a Scoutmaster saying "in our troop the official uniform is a pair of blue jeans for the pants". It would seem to be a rare event that a Scouter is dismissed from BSA, unless a truly egregious violation occurs.

Yeah I got that. "Run" the program = adults. "Lead" the troop = scouts. Sorry, but I still don't get the reason for limiting to 2 in a tent. Why should the adults dictate this to the troop? If there is a lights out and all quiet at 10 "rule", what's the difference between 2 staying up late and talking vs. 3 or 4 in a tent. If they stay up all night because the boy leaders don't enforce the rule- their problem. The boys will learn soon enough if they are tired the next day. What bugs me is when they are suddenly sick and unable to go on that 5 mile hike because they were up late.

Fast Track usually means the program will comprehensively cover almost all of the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and First Class requirements during the week. It usually requires attendance at all classes. Orienteering can be very hard to get for 1st Class but is usually offered during this program. Hence, Fast Track or FCAP- First Class Advancement Program.

On a recent thread, many criticised trying to prevent scouts from having cell phones at summer camp. Now we are telling them which tent they can bring. I thought that if it wasn't dangerous or illegal, then we are supposed to let the boys run the program. If the kids are roudy all night, the SM should take the SPL aside and ask him to handle it.

How about the IRS?- the irritable raccoons of siberia.

I encourage all in this thread to read "SCOUT'S HONOR a father's unlikely foray into the woods" by Peter Applebome. This is a well researched book by a non-scouter whose son liked Scouts better than sports. It was written in 2003. Part of the book addresses many of the inflated numbers that were used by National in the 80's. I am very active at District and Council levels. I see some attempts to activate new units before they are ready by the DE. But the number of scouts registered seems to be very accurate. I don't think the professional side should be criticised for trying to fund

Rooster says: To me, the Scout that stands up and confidently says, I know the one and only true God - is demonstrating a STRONG faith. I am curious as to how you would deal with the Eagle Scout candidate at his BOR who is Hindu. Since this religion clearly violates your idea of an acceptable belief (as determined by your previous posts), does this Scout's duty to God pass your muster?

On Eagle Boards, when the candidate is asked, "which point of the Scout Law would you eliminate if you could only have 11?", the scouts most frequent response that I hear is Reverent. The most common answer as to why is that it is already covered in the Oath- do duty to God. Requiring a Religious Life merit badge for Eagle is about the most redundant thing I have seen you guys suggest so far. It is already covered in the Oath and Law. It is available in the Religious Award. The determination of satisfactory duty to God is very subjective and should be a personal issue between the Scout a

I am amazed at how much I learn reading the forum. In our troop, we elect the CC and SM every year. I agree with Bob White that the COR secures a CC. However, that might mean he allows the troop committee to have an election to choose a member of the committee who wishes to do the job as is done in this troop. I think if the COR suddenly yanked the CC (which seems to be his right to do so), you might have a very upset group of committee members and parents, especially if the election has been allowed before.