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Aardvark, There are no ranks in the OA.There are 3 honors and rather than being a rank or award they are new levels of commitment that you make to the order and to scouting.

Has anyone had any success using the Unit Representative program? I had a lot of hope for the concept when it first came out and put quite a bit of effort in trying to promote it. I don't feel like we were very succesfull. I would love to hear from anyone whose Lodge or chapter has incorporated the program succesfully.Any tips on how you made it work would be great.

Optimists Club

In our district the OA chapter is in charge of planning and organiseing our camporee program.The commitee is aproved by our District outdoor chair.We don't restrict commitee positions to OA but it turns out that the involved people are arrowmen. We use other smaller event planning earlier in the program year to help train our youth for the big event planning.Our camporee has had 850 to 1000 participants over the past few years.We use the troops to run different game stations and the recruiting of these units and putting together of program is the prime duty of the chapter. So far we

Hi, I'm pretty new to this forum.I waded into one emotionally charged disscusion without awareness of what I was doing. I was strongly involved in cubscouts as youth and had a year or 2 of boyscouting before troop disintegrated. My involvement has been as an adult.3 yrs. as WEBELOS den Leader (last den had 6 of 9 members being ADD)Was den leader coach for 3 years and facilitator for pack programs.Last 2 years in pack I was also ASM in Oldest sons Troop, roundtable trainer for WEBELOS and on District training committee for WEBELOS outdoor training. Continued with ASM, Roundtabl

Hi, I'm pretty new to this forum.I waded into one emotionally charged disscusion without awareness of what I was doing. I was strongly involved in cubscouts as youth and had a year or 2 of boyscouting before troop disintegrated. My involvement has been as an adult.3 yrs. as WEBELOS den Leader (last den had 6 of 9 members being ADD)Was den leader coach for 3 years and facilitator for pack programs.Last 2 years in pack I was also ASM in Oldest sons Troop, roundtable trainer for WEBELOS and on District training committee for WEBELOS outdoor training. Continued with ASM, Roundtabl

Please tell me if I was wondering too far off thread. My point was we shouldn't need to look at senior or junior forum member status as a credential.

I'm pretty new to the Forum and probaly irritaed a few of you in a previous OA thread. Am I the only one who has problems setting up or looking at a users profile. I tried for the 5th. time a few minutes ago with no sucess. I think I may of been able to communicate better if I'd of known something of who I'm talking to. I've lurked some and have learned more on some people. But it would be nice to be able to take a peak at a profile before stepping into a controversial area. Also I'd of spent a little less time trying to qualify statements coming from me.

Ok.I'm going to stay out of the politics and philosphy I got a little carried away with that on the OA site that Eamonn spun from. But I wanted to share with you what can be done at Council level by Venture age youth.This took 3 years of the lead youth banging his head against the wall of a council that was still unsure about how to deal with Venture.This year Council let him promote at reasonable time and event filled up in less than 2 months.The Web site doesn't reflect changes in location and some program.But it's basically the same thing. Check it out http://www.joinventuring.com/

I'm going to be leaving the forum so I can get back to my duties.It's been interesting to be a ranting maverick.I don't and won't do that in my official position.I need to follow and support the Order as it is set up.I'm not in a position to make policy and I don't think I'd want to be the person dealing with this if it actually makes it to that level. Note where I've been coming from:I'm spoiled in my contact with Venture and the OA I work with the cream of the crop and it's hard to relate to them using the OA to boost their egos.Some of them participate in OA service projects even whe

True it is not a simple issue.The units I'm looking at are high adventure crews with a strong focus on camping.The only actual change I would like to see is changing the first class requirement to include a Venture equivilent.The OA has a strong focus on camping and should stay that way.OA would be part of path for a camping focus crew. I agree that this could be a logistical nightmare.I'd just like to see the deserving venturers have the opportunity.I beleive that throughout scouting we should emphasise more that OA is not an award but a camping focused service organization.I'm look

well we definitely are going to always dissagree.I see Venture as an extension of the boy scout program deserving to be included in the OA's Honor society . It seems to me you see it as something seperate and want to keep it so. I'm probably in the minority,but it's how I feel. Too tell you the truth I feel like we have been involved in 2 completely different disscussions.The answers you gave to me seemed to be totally irelevent to what I was talking about,and obviously you saw my side the same way. Oh by the way I didn't feel I was insulting you by reciting sons honors

FOG, I think I should apologise for the terminology stuff.You are right about the Venturer usage.I guess I'm just frustrated that this is the kind of thing that has become the bulk of feed back.there has been very little if any disscussion of what I thought was the meat of the subject.

FOG, My point was more that I may get my terminology wrong.But I'm in the middle of what is actually going on I live with youth who are working on the leading edge of a vibrant growing program.I also spend the bulk of my time supporting and working within the boundaries of the program that has my heart .The OA. I would like to see the 2 share in each others strengths. The odds are I will miss the details on patches or terminology. My focus lies in helping to support the youth leadership in my Chapter and Lodge, and I think I'm doing a pretty good job.Our chapter has put on merit ba

Eamonn, In response to your message about scout pay.Our council has some of the lowest pay you'll find anywhere.Most of our budget goes to maintaining some of the most amazing scout properties you'll ever see. Cascade Pacific Council is blessed with some great camps,every thing from cliffs at the Edge of the Pacific Ocean to 5000 feet up in the Cascade mountains on the Edge of the Jefferson Wilderness area. My oldest son has been approached from out of region and offered 3 times what he gets.But like I said our staffers work for the love of it.

Sorry I mistated something.The last I heard Venture is the fastest growing program in the BSA.You'd never know it the way they are treated by the rest of scouting.

FOG, you have a great knack for focusing on the nitpicky trivia I hear Venture Scout as often as I hear Venturer used.My sons are both involved in the Venture program ,OA and Boy scouts .My oldest was awarded the Venture leadership award(the Venturing equivelent of the Silver Beaver,but Youth can receive it).He also has the Founders Award, the OA's highest council award.His Venture crew is on the Wood Badge training staff for the council. My youngest is the Council cabinet's Administrative Vice President. Could you tell me what knowledge you have of The Venture program other than stat

Eamonn I don't think you get it.The point is that Venture scouts(and yes they are called scouts)as with other boy scouts are serving the scout program.I'm not trying to set up all Venture scouts as something special there is just as big a mix of slackers and hard workers as in any other part of scouting (or the world in general). I dissagree with you about not setting camp staff up as something special.Yea there are slackers as there are every where.But the people I was trying to point out are ones who go above and beyond their duties for scouting. I don't know how involved you have be

Eamonn I don't think you get it.The point is that Venture scouts(and yes they are called scouts)as with other boy scouts are serving the scout program.I'm not trying to set up all Venture scouts as something special there is just as big a mix of slackers and hard workers as in any other part of scouting (or the world in general). I dissagree with you about not setting camp staff up as something special.Yea there are slackers as there are every where.But the people I was trying to point out are ones who go above and beyond their duties for scouting. I don't know how involved you have be

I'm new to this medium for communicating.This may not work for communicating anything complex. But I think there are some missunderstandings going on. One concept I want clear OA is not an award it is a service organization and if I were to use the district "backdoor" to get an adult in it's not to honor them but to bring a valuable asset into the organization.My district units elected 125 new candidates this year following all the exact regulations.70% of these will make it to one of our lodge's 6 ordeals.Maybe 10 of them will be active in the Chapter or Lodge.Of the 4 people i

The ones that I use the district option for are all very active at the District level.One a year is not such a big deal in a chapter of 300 in a Lodge of 2000. The desire to see the inclusion of Venture stems from the fact that this is a valid Boyscout program serving the same age group as the OA and with very much the same structure. If your concerned about OA being opened up too much for it to feel special.You might want to look at the tendancy of Boy Scout troops to select every Youth who reaches first class. These Venture scouts that we are excluding are a large part of o

I feel the need to clarify something.Acco40's response took a couple of lines out of context from the entry he was responding to.Thus the impression is that many of us are not happy with the fact that the youth have control of youth elections.Not so at all. My frustraton had more to do with tweener youth (18 to 20) who may have entered scouts as Venture scouts,they can go to a troop where they are considered adults, become ASM's yet they are not able to be selected into the OA as adults,because in the eye of the OA,they are youth until 21.This means they must of earned First class whi

Actually scoutmaster can not veto election results. Scoutmaster aproval is one of the requirements for a person to be on the ballot.So I guess we do have some input but it's best that we not be to free with this veto.Mostly it's used if the SM feels that the possible candidate is too immature to handle the ordeal.It's rarely used,I saw 12 year olds on my candidate list and I doubt I will see any of them at a chapter or lodge event or meeting. (different rant) The point I was trying to make was in relation to the difficulty the female Venture youth would have getting into the OA.There

AS a very active chapter Advisor and the father of a youth member of the lodge leadership,I'm invited to Eagle COH's through out the Council.I carry my sash with me and wear it if this is what this unit does.My feeling is that if the unit wants to display their OA participation , I will respect it. It may not be the official uniform code.But this is a special event and I refuse to be nitpicky about such an irrelevent thing. The spirit of the OA is in the heart not the symbols.

There are many people who have duel registrations.I'm an OA chapter Advisor and deal with unique election and selection situations.With adults There are more options we can use.The real impediment to Venture Female youths is that to be elected you need to have achieved first Class.It doesn't allow for the fact that Venturing ranks require First Class skills and above.It's more a matter of wording. Once the potential candidate reaches 21,then we have more leeway.The focus is more on whether the person will be an asset to the order.Adults are selcted by either a troop or Varsity team.T