Bob White

NIMBY Is there anyplace that the US can explore for oil that isn't in, or next-to, someplace somebody doesn't want them? You cannot have independence from foreign oil production AND not look for ways to increase domestic oil production. It really is just that simple. Bob White

Hunt, All ranks listed for Star are applicable to Life including bugler. Go by the the information in the Boy Scout handbook, web sites are often wrong about a lot of things. bikerferg, The SM and committee do not have the authority to alter the advancement requirements no matter how noble they feel they are being. Any Scout who has been turned down for advancement after actively serving in a designated office should be informed that they have the right to appeal the decision to the Council and even national advancement committee, which I guarantee will overturn the decision of the SM.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

That's a whole lot different than dropping them! I have no problem with an ongoing demonstration and instruction. My concern is that the staff is qualified to teach the skill, The counselor is the one to test the scout individually and that he/she is 18 or older, that the scout is required to do what the handbook requirement states, that accurate records are kept, and most importantly the scout chooses what to do not the scout leader.

"By the way, Bob, I think your observations about summer camp programs are interesting. But can you imagine what Scout camps would be like if all merit badge classes were dropped?" No Twocubdad I can't. But then I am not aware of anyone in this thread making such a suggestion. I know I certainly did not.

"*Since DEs live and die by the number of units in their district, I would think you should have no problem getting him to attend this meeting." Growth in the number of units is just one element that a DE is evaluated on and is by no means a live or die factor.

Are they owned by other councils?

I still don't understand. Are these Scout camps? If so are they operated by your council?

Lets try agian with spell check... Hi Don, Here's the thing. I do not disagree that the scout should do what the requirements say. Nor do I disagree that that the counselor should almost religiously follow the requirements. Here is where I am coming from, I can tell you from experience with the National BSA Scout Advancement Division, It is the responsibility of adults to make sure that the adult counselor is qualified and does their job correctly. The adult that recruits them, the one that trains them, the one that approves them, the ones that send the scouts to them, all have a share in making sure that the counselor does the job correctly. If the counselor does not do his/her job, then punish an adult....not the Scout BW

Hi Don, Here's the thing. I do not disagree that the scout should do what the requirements say. nor do I disagree that that the counselor should almost religiously follow the requirements. Here is where I am comming from, I can tell you from experience with the National BSA Scout Advancement Division, It is the responsibility of adults to nake sure that the adult counselor is qualified and does their job correctly. the adult that recruits them, the one that trains them, the one that approves them, the ones that send the scouts to them, all have a share in making sure that the counselor does the job correctly. If the counselor does not do his/her job, then punish an adult....not the Scout. BW

Failing units should be everyone's concern. Scouts who leave the program with bad memories affect the next generation of kids as well. There are many layers of support and assistance available to a failing unit. But helping a an indanger unit to recover is no different than helping an alcoholic or drug addict to recover. The very first thing that has to happen is that a key member of the unit must first realize that things are in trouble and that they need help to recover. Then they have to be willing to change. Its sad to see a unit get down to as few as 7 boys and still have key (often trained and experienced) leaders continue to say "it's not our program it's __________"(fill in the blank with the excuse of your choice). Once the unit or key individual acknowledges the problem, and is will to accept help, then the district can bring in its resources, commissioners, training, membership committees, financial advice, activities advice etc. You can help by being like Marley's ghost. Get them to see that if they do not change their ways that the shadows of things to come will be grave for the unit. No unit has to fail, they choose to, and that is indeed unfortunate.

The Owl is in the wrong order it goes after Fox and before Bear.

Who's owned the tent? Who was in charge of the activity?

"Can I trust that there are consistencies amongst the programs, or do I need to focus on and be familiar with each program's uniqueness??" You need to understand that the BSA has no control over the content of the manuals or the requirements of the individaul programs. These are not scouting awards. These are awards created by and presented by the individual religion and approved for wear on the official BSA uniform by the BSA. So the only thing you can be sure is that each is consistant with the specifc religion it represents. I have served on two different Catholic Committees for Scouting and both promoted all religious programs among scouts. I would not be surprised if all others did as well. My recommendation would be to talk to whoever you invite ahead of time and make sure they understand they are there to promote the activity of being active in your faith and the recognition programs offered by many religions. BW

Check with your council to see if there is a Catholic Committee on Scouting in your area. They could help connect units and scouts looking to earn this recognition to you. If there is't one consider starting one. BW

"and back then it was harmless" NO, back then it was allowed. Less outing in scouting???? Since when is teasing and hazing considered an outdoor activity? Here I always thought it was the swimming, skiing, caving, camping, canoeing, hiking, climbing, rappelling,and service projects that we do every month that made scouting an outdoor program. Now we are told by Skyhook that if we aren't hazing children that we have lost the outing in scouting!

Same as OGE We spend time teaching what to bring, and why, rather than what not to. BW

Greetings I have been asked by a couple posters to give a follow up on what ideas we used for the event. First let me thank everyone for your ideas and input. All suggestions were considered and many accepted. Unfortunately.... the event did not take place. A number of elements contributed to its cancellation (a word and anaction I hate to hear) not the least of which was lack of pre-registration. But thankfully ideas have a durable shelf life and I will look for oher opportunities to make use of them. Thanks again, Bob White

After re-reading kenk's post I would like to retract my previous post and give a somewhat different answer. Kenk I think you misunderstand the terms being used. When the BSA says "guardian" in this case they are not refering to the supervising adult but to a legally confirmed guardian. As in a person who by a legal decision or law, is given responsibility for a minor that they are not the birth parent of. A webelos may camp without a parent or guardian if they under the direct supervision or another adult other than the den leader. That "suoervising authority" however cannot share a tent with that scout since he or she is not the parent or guardian of the boy. So the answer is still No, the three cannot tent together. Two deep leadersip is a separate issue and a separate policy. Two deep leadership says that on trips and outings (with one exception)units must have Two registered adult leaders, or one registered adult and a parent of a participating Scout, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older. Do not confuse sleeping arrangements with two deep leadership requirements. They are unrelated. BW

Fotoscout's sscenario would not be allowed in any council I know of. An adult cannot be in a tent with a youth for whom they are not the parent or guardian. So for kenk's question: "Can the two boys and their adult/guardian sleep in the same tent? Does that violate the two-deep leadership?" Unless something has changed in the YP policies, No they can't, yes it does. BW

The YP policies and the G2SS state that the use of alcohol at a scout activity is forbidden. The Council Scout Executive must be informed of this situation.

First crude jokes do not have a place in Scouting. As you pointed out the Scout has done this before and whatever actions the program leaders took it obviously has not taken hold yet. If a Committee member chooses to call the boy's parents I have no problem with that I don't believe you will find that the BSA program has a problem with it either. So I would let go of that one. As far as not following the rules, consider some quite counseling. "Mr. Smith, one of the things I enjoyed most about working with you when I was a Den chief is that it seemed you always tried to set a good example for the boys. What kind of an example do you feel you set when you do not follow the same rules we ask of the scouts, in the same cheerful and obedient manner we expect of them?" I'll bet that would give him pause to think.

Step 1) A chartering organization (CO) determines to use the scouting methods as a youth outreach program to help teach, practice, and strengthen the shared vales of the organization and the BSA Step 2) The Institutional Head (IH) of the organization selects a Charter Organization Representative (CR) to act as the CEO of scouting for the organization. Step 3) the CR and IH select a Committee Chair (CC) and at least two committee members (MC) to help select other program leaders, beginning with the Cubmaster (CM), and offer program support to the unit. (the next several steps happen somewhat simultaneously) Step 4) The CR and CC approve all other required adult volunteers. Step 5) All Adults attend BSA training for their role in the unit Step 6) The CC and CM develop an program plan to take the pack through the next 12-months Step 7) The CC and CM identify, select, and recruit Den leaders and Assistant Scoutmasters. Step 8) Families are recruited to join Step 9) as Cub Scouts and adult volunteers are registered, BSA membership applications are filled out and collected. Once the first five youth are signed up their applications along with the applications for the CR,CC,(2) Mcs, CM, Den lEADER (DL), and a signed Shared Responsibilites Agreement is turned into the4 local District executive with the needed application fees. Step 10) These forms will be processed by the Council Office into the unit's first Charter. Step 11) The Unit can begin meeting. Depending on the individual unit, some steps may happen in a slightly different order but all will need to happen at some time in the organizational process for the unit to succeed. Good Luck, BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I would recommend that you 1) disassociate yourselves from the "recruiter". He messed up and his continued participation will only cause more problems. (families should not have been enrolled before the needed church signatures were gathered and a committee was in place.) 2) Have the pastor of the church select a spokesperson who is a member of the church and who will join the Pack as the Charter Organization Representative (CR), 3) Have the CR contact your local District Executive and rquest that either the DE or an assigned Unit Commissioner, help to complete the unit charter according to the council's process as soon as possible. 4) Get everyone in a program leadership role and Pack committee role through training. Your council website will have links to Fast Start and Youth Protection. Have the CR contact the District Training chair and arrange for New Leader Essentials and Cub Leader Job Specific Training for all the Pack positions. These 4 steps will get you firmly placed on the right road to provide a solid program for the boys and their families. Best of Luck, Have fun, Bob White

The reply link on my private messaging is not working so I will respond here to a message I recieved. The quote is from the Scoutmaster Lader Specific Training Syllabus.

Twocubdad is right on the money.