Bob White

Sorry my mistake, I was in Star and Life mode.

Okay help me out where am I off on the understanding specifically. 1) These are scout camps owned by other councils. 2) You said they are three hundred miles away. 3) Tou feel your program and facilities are just are fine. 4) What is a Super-camp? 5) you believe these superior camps are being done to increase salararies for pros. Remember an echo is a reflection of the original sounds that degrades with each repetition.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No 4. Maybe, Depends I need more details. 5. Yes, From the time he began till the end of the service. To Eagle's 6. Yes 7. Yes 8. Yes

I must disagree with my esteemed brothers Trail Pounder and Yak Herder. While lengthy, his description is filled with error and personal opinion. For a shorter, more accurate, description please open your Boy Scout Handbooks to page 420. One thing that will help the Venture Patrol to succeed is for the SM to pick the right Assistant Scoutmaster to direct the Ventuire program. Best of luck. BW

Foto, Let me see if I understand what you are saying and please correct any errors I make here. Other councils own camps three hundred miles away from your councils camp and they are having greater success at drawing participants. You do not believe this is caused by program quality differences, but feel it is in some way connected to higher salaries for professionals. Is that correct?

Foto I checked my private messages and there is nothing there from you. Since you are still looking at this thread perhaps you will answer the question for me and for others. Are these camps owned by other councils or are they privately owned. Your posts are not clear on this. BW

1) Why Tiger, Wolf, Bear? They are not alphabetical either? It just is what it is. I don't kknow that there is any specific reason. I have been told that the first 5 were the originals and that the other 3 were added at later times. 2) Animals used in other countries are species indigenous to that area. Yes names change, Bobwhite used to be quail. BW

EagleinKY There is an option in the requirement to perform a Scoutmaster assigned project.

You will find a lot of great games and crafts for Cubs in the BSA's Program Helps magazine and the How To Book.

I am curious as to what "program material" he is refering to. Please keep us informed. BW

I look forward to a viable alternative energy solution being developed, but then I look forward to Backpacker answering those three questions I put before him...I wonder which will happen first. Bob White

So far everything you have heard regarding the camping committe is correct. Your DE should have a series of brochures that highlight the responsibilities of each district committee sub-committee.

Camp Massawepee owned by the Otetiana Council Is very cool. I always had a good time at Rotary Scout Reservation in meamemg's council of Twin Rivers.

You cannot really do justice to the relationship of values, goals, mission and vision in the text of a cyber forum. I highly recommend you read the leadership books of Kenneth Blanchard, and of course attend Wood Badge. The Vision statement of scouting is for the most part the Big Picture of what the BSA strives to be. The Mission is the specifc thing that the program does for the youth it serves, the Aims are how the Mission is accomplished, the Methods are the specific, unique, program elements that are what we do to accomplish the Aims. The Values and Goals mentioned by Eamonn and others refer to what you as a leader bring to the table. Based on your personal values, what goals are you setting and accomplishing to further your personal vision of what you want to accomplish within the framework of scouting. What legacy will you leave that will positively effect the youth of today, 10, 20 or thirty years from now? "A vision without a mission is just a dream... A mission without a vision is just passing time... A vision with action, can change the world."

BSA Vision Statement: The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to: Offer young people responsible fun and adventure Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program

What are you talking about?

When did I attack you? Lets look at the points I have raised and you tell me what points require validation. 1) The proposed drilling is neither in Philmont, or at Philmont, it is outside of Philmont. 2) Any drilling has to be done somewhere, and somebody will dislike that location. 3) SUVs are not the only thing that use petoleum based resources. 4) As our population and economy grow so does our need for energy and petroleum based fuels. 5) We are a free enterprise system of ecomomy. 6) Market changes are consumer driven. What do you find fault with in the accuracy of those statements. Here are four questions posed to you which you have totally avoided and I would still appeciate an answer to. 1) Where in the US would you approve drilling for new petroleum resources? 2) What other industrial nation, that produces as much as the US, and with the quality of life equal to the US, uses less fossil fuels? 3) What is your specific source of statistics that says "most people in the middle of winter have their furnaces going full blast, all the lights in the house are on"? 3) Where in any post in this thread did I attack you? Bob White

Somehow I do not see the DOE using a term so statistically void as "most". I welcome your evidience that I ever took a leave from this forum because of posters "ganging up on me". That never happened. "It seems you enjoy dishing it out but you can't take it." Please show me where in this thread I "dished it out" towards you. In fact I will offer the same question to the moderators. Did I in any way attack or insult backpacker? BW

All Wood Badge courses are open registrations. You do not have to be a memeber of the host council to attend. Visit this site for a pretty good list of courses across the country. http://www.woodbadge.org/WhereWhen/wbwhen.htm BW

OK givin that we have not gotten a response from foto I will adress the answer in either of the ways it could go. Yes the super camps are owned by other councils. So these camps are a 5 hour drive away from your camp and is getting better attendance. Why? Obviously for what ever reason they are better. is it your plan to ask the other councils to reduce the quality of their program or to reduce the quality of their facilities. Maybe you could get their communities to be less supportive of the scouting program so that the council couldn't spend so much money on their camps? Speaking of spending money.. how are dare they pay an SE who is able to raise so much money that they can operate such a great camp, and draw scouts from 300 miles away! OK Lets say its not owned by a council. Welcome to free enterprise. A private facility 300 miles away is drawing more scouts. How? You have made it quite clear that it isn't the quality of their program. Imagine the councils in the South East who have that super-camp run by a 5 ft tall mouse. How dare they compete for attendance at the local scout casmps. We are 900 miles awya and had two troops go there this summer instead of our local summer camp. Competition is everywhere. Quality facilities and program are the onle solution. Now explain to us how you figure SEs have this conspiracy to profit from spending money on better camps and programs. BW

Backpacker writes "The US consumption of fossil fuel is way above the average per capita than all the other industrialized nations of the world." So I have to ask...As compared to what other industrial nation that produces as much as the US, and with the quality of life equal to the US? "The government, especially under Bush, has done nothing to force industry to take measures so they consume less. Welcome to America and the free enterprise system. American like their cars. If the car industry is ever going to take fuel efficiecny seriously it is not going to come from the whitehouse no matter who the president is. Market changes are consumer driven. "Lets talk about homes, most people in the middle of winter have their furnaces going full blast, all the lights in the house are on, etc, wasting energy." You know this to be a current fact in most peoples homes? Please share your specific resource for that figure. "Do you think for a minute that most Americans are willing to make those sacrifices" I do not claim to know most Americans nor how they feel on all the on myriad of topics that adults are exposed to during the many stages of their lives. Again I am curious as to your source of information. "It is government and corporate officials who have this holier than thou attitude that because we are Americans we have a right to waste 2 to 3 times more fuel than all the other industrial nations that we have had no incentives for conservation or alternate fuels research or development. Bob, their attitude is remarkably similiar to your own. Backpacker if your knowledge of most Americans is as far a field from the facts as you total lack of knowledge about me and my views on alternative fuels, then you have a real problem with your "facts". If your rudeness to me is a sampling of what your posts will be like, you may have a real problem participating on this board. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Double Eagle, I don't think anyone has suggested that there is no room for humor in the BSa only that there is no humor in teasing other people especially adults teasing children. I do not see the parallel between your examples of joking about scouting being an hour a week or singing a silly song, with sending a boy running around looking for a smoke bender so that you can laugh at him at his expense.

I am not sure what your message is wesman. What does the "patrol method" mean to you? I get the impression that you misunderstand what the patrol method is. It sounds to me like you are giving advice on how to be a good patrol leader, and that is a different topic all together. BW

Backpacker. The drilling is not AT Philmont it is outside of Philmont. EVRYWHERE that isn't Philmont is outside of Philmont. EVRYWHERE is outside of somewhere. You cannot have an energy program based on NIMBY. WHERE in the U.S. do you feel is a good place to explore for more petroleum resources Backpacker? SUVs are not the only thing that use petroleum products. The nations energy demands grow daily as homes are built, businesses grow and develop. Energy is not just about cars and trucks. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Focus focus focus Foto, Are these camps you refer to owned by another BSA council or not?