Twocubdad

Here's another thought.... We have a few troops in the district which use firm percentages for determining active participation. No exceptions. 49.99%? Sorry, kid, come back when you meet the standard. Council has full knowledge of these units and their policies. Generally, the troop leaders are decades-long Scouters and carry and lot of weight in the council. I wonder if the council advancement committee will enforce the new clarification?

T-2-1 we track individual requirements closely. The ASPL for the new Scout patrols uses the "target first class" reports to help plan programs and to make sure no one is falling too far behind. The dad who tracks that for us usually sets up shop in a back corner of troop meetings and asks the boys to bring him their handbooks from time to time. That's the real weak link in the system -- when the boys don't submit their books. We don't have any sort of back channel to track those requirements otherwise. Beyond 1C we really don't worry about tracking individual requirements in real time. The advancement chairman, who runs boards of review, collects the data during the BOR and updates TroopMaster then. Financial information is completely separate for us. We collect dues from parents annually, do no fundraising and don't use scout accounts. Paying for food for campouts his handled within the patrol. The couple times per year we have extra fees for activities (I can think of two times in the past year) it is collected by the troop treasurer.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

The kid is a genius! What a great way to meet girls. The only thing better would be to volunteer to work at the waterfront at a Girl Scout camp!

Makes sense, if your objective is to avoid prosecution. Questionable if you're trying to teach citizenship, ethics, and responsibility. From a PR standpoint, it may fly with some two-bit weekly, but I wouldn't want to go on 60 Minutes with that line.

Really? www.ncdot.org is probably a more appropriate site.

Well, that's sort of what I was wondering. If you will recall, part of the story here was that the Scoutmaster was a long-time district/council volunteer and (if I'm remembering correctly, I ain't re-reading all this) was fairly tight with the folks on the advancement committee who heard the appeal. So what is the possibility that the folks in Irving would, as a professional courtesy, give the professionals in the council a heads-up as to the outcome? Is there any sort of back-and-forth that goes on between national and the council? Does national only look at the written submissions, or would they call the SE or program director and ask for additional info? I'm not suggesting this would be inappropriate, just wondering if there is more to the process than just waiting for a letter.

We are/are becoming a fairly large troop (60+ after crossover) and have the Troopmaster record keeping functions divided by program area. We have an "IT manager" who oversees the whole thing, initially enter new Scouts into the system and keeps us current on the tech side. We also have a ScoutTrak account we use for calendar and email management and she manages that system too. She's a high-end database manager for a big corporation, so this is small potatoes for her. A dad who works with the new scout patrols handles all the T-2-1 requirements. We have a merit badge coordinator who enters the merit badges, uploads completions to ScoutNet and tracks partials. (Generally, we only track partials which come back from summer camp. Occasionally, if the troop goes climbing, canoeing or something similar we will enter those activities as MB partials even though the boy hasn't officially begun that MB, just so we don't loose the data). Our Advancement Chairman handles all rank advancements, including ScoutNet reports. We don't usually enter S-L-E requirements until the board of review for those ranks. The Troop Scribe (youth) enters attendance info. Occasionally we discover a few holes in the system, like OA records and troop leadership positions. Either myself or the IT person tries to keep up with that. This really makes is sound much more complicated than it is -- sort of a divide and conquer approach. This way it's a fairly small part of any one person's responsibility.

I would only allow skipping the second part of Webelos under rather clear extenuating circumstances. In my time as Scoutmaster, I've had a couple parents ask to skip Webelos II and join the troop. To date, I've not had one where I thought it was a good idea. But it sounds to me that this situation qualifies. My best advice to you would be to tell the mom the boy is certainly eligible to join the troop and is welcome to do so. If he submits an application to the troop, the Den Leader/Cub Master has no role in the situation. (Maybe this is why its generally a bad idea to be both DL and CM.) On the other hand, you have no role in whether or not the boy earns his Arrow of Light. I envision only bad things if you get in the middle of that. I would make that clear to the mom and that she has to work that out with the pack. Unfortunately it may mean a choice for them between moving on to the troop and finishing the AoL. Their call.

We don't really do bylaws. I can envision extreme problems for which bylaws may be useful, but honestly when we get to that point a lack of bylaws isn't won't be our biggest problem. Much to my embarassment, our "Troop Handbook" is now up to about 25 pages. The good news is the first 20 pages are really more of an orientation to troop operations directed more at new parents than scouts. It's built around the eight methods and ends up being a 90 minute version of Scoutmaster training. It began as an outline for the new parent orientation session we do with the parents while the Scouts have the Webelos off on a tour of the camp. One year one of the Webelos parents noted that we all seemed to have a printed set of note we were using to conduct the session and asked for a copy. Made sense to me.... Of the remaining five pages, three are the troop's expectations for behavior which begins with the Oath and Law. It includes a list of postive behaviors we want to encourage and one section lists the obvious dumb stuff you can't do. It provides for consequences for bad behaviors and basically says the troop leaders are free to do just about anything they feel is appropriate to the situation. The in the event of suspension or expulsion, the SM makes a recommedation to the troop committee which must be approved by the COR as well. That's about as close to a bylaw as we get. The remaining two pages includes our attendance expectations and a list of SOPs we thought enough of to write down: we expect every one to wear a full uniform, rules regarding the use of fires and gas appliances (basically G2SS stuff) and electronics. Oh, the last page list all the troop's Eagle Scouts through the years.

I grew up with the collarless shirts in the 70s and never really cared for them. But then, I don't particularly care for t-shirts either. Looking back a my old Philmont photos from '74 everyone is wearing t-shirts AND has a bandana tied around his neck. Living in the south and working out doors most of the year, I always wear collared shirts. I can roll up collar to keep the sun off my neck. I soaks up sweat. I also wear undershirts and long pants most of the summer for much the same reasons. I don't find the extra fabric to be any warmer (I could make an argument that the extra insulation keeps you cooler) and I'm much more comfortable by keeping the sun and sweat off me. I also like wearing a necker rolled under the collar on my Scout shirt. I keeps in neat and in place. Frankly, I like the look, too. By the way, all my old short-sleeved shirts are collarless and the long-sleeved shirts have collars. I thought that was the only option. Were other permutations available?

The absurdity, fish, is in national's stance that holding a position (or series of positions) for six months satisfies the requirement. Beavah explaination of the policy is, unfortunately, correct.

Where's the market for all this stuff? Does anybody really care? Or is like the post office issuing commemorative stamps knowing collectors will buy a bunch of them and never use the stamp to mail anything. Are they counting on collectors buying up sets of this stuff? I can understand hats and t-shirts and stuff people will buy as a commemorative of the centennial, but what's with monkeying with the insignia? If you earn second class this year, are you really going to stock up on patches just because there is a centennial version? I know it isn't enforced, but it's rather unseemly to me to be buying up earned insignia, even if it isn't technically restricted. What do you bet this time next year the Scout Shops are piled high with this junk on the discount table? Skeptic -- what would be the application of the jamboree POR patches? You should be wearing the patch for your current POR. If you're a jamboree patrol leader, you shouldn't be wearing the PL patch after you return from jambo. In years past, the rule was jamboree contingent stuff (like unit numerals) could be worn only six months after a jamboree.

This is still bull. Their underlying definition of "active" has not changed and still contradicts any reasonably common usage of the word "active." All this does is clarify the role of the unit leader in dealing with an inactive Scout. Oops, sorry, the Scout is still active, he just been in "nonparticipation" status. And please correct me if I am wrong, but does an unit/chartered organization not have the right to drop a member at any time for any reason? If our unit/CO adopts a policy that the membership of an individual who fails to attend X percent of meetings and activities will be immediately dropped from the roster, how does national have the authority to dictate otherwise? Quit playing word games. National should collectively grow a pair and drop the "Be active..." requirement from all the ranks.

Yes sir, that's it. Good work.

In the years since this thread started, I've met one of the directors of Clan MacLauren. They are very aware of their Scouting heritage and are very welcoming to Wood Badgers. They have a special membership class for Wood Badgers. They also have a program to assist scout groups acquire kilts. http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/

Neckerchiefs for world jamboree came with instructions for a "friendship knot" which I never mastered. The knot allowed you to go sans slide. The knot allowed the ends of the necker to hang straight down. I hate it when our guys tie a plain square knot in their necker so the end poke out left and right -- they look like Chef Boyardee. I'll see if I can find a copy of the instructions. Don't bother googling -- what comes up as a friendship knot is something different.

Enjoy it now, Aint's fans, but keep those paper bags handy!

BP called Scouting a game with a purpose. Frankly, if the point of your campout is "pointless fun" I don't particularly care to invest my volunteer time toward that end. Sounds like babysitting. I'm sure everyone will have a good time, but Scouting is more than that. The key to good programming is finding activities which are fun AND support the underlying values of Scouting. This is what separates Scouting from a day of grab-ass at the park. At camp school, we stress the 12 core values of Cub Scouting and teach camp directors to develop fun programs around those values. Does a three-legged race support those values? Absolutely! Health & fitness and cooperation are two of the values. Pie eating and transgender beauty contests I'm not so sure about. While I really appreciate and encourage your enthusiasm, Scoutfish, you really need a solid grounding in the program basics. I know you're signed up for training, which is great. Until then, focus on the BSA literature, especially the leader and Scout handbooks. USScouts has a lot of old program material, like old POW WOW books posted on line. Look for Baloo's Bugle there. I have a lot of the old CS leader how-to books which are great, timeless resources. The activities there are fun AND developed with the purpose of Scouting in mind.

It's called a free market. Enjoy it while it still exists.

Since the CM is the one who asked you to get involved on his behalf, it is perfectly reasonable for you to go to him privately and say something along the lines of, "I've done what you asked and re-read the Webelos requirements. The way I read it the boys only need to explain the stuff not recite it. I think OUR best course would be if WE backed off and let the WDLs handle it. Seems like they have in under control." Just becasuse the CM asked you to doesn't mean you have to hold hands and jump off this cliff with him. Hopefully he understand that it's your best friends who will tell you when your fly is unzipped.

You're relly taking the fun out of this. I'm with Eamonn. (he wrote, working on a very nice MacAllan 12 ... frutty and slightly sweet, cinnamon, with a peppery finish.)

You don't say how many boys total you have in your troop beyond he five Webelos. Assuming you have other "regular" (that is, non-NSP patrols) I would suggest that at the end of the first year the NSP be integrated into the other regular patrols. My experience is that trying to keep same-aged patrols together is very difficult. At some point these patrols will be decimated by Scouts serving in troop leadership positions such as Senior Patrol Leader and Troop Guide, and by the normal attrition that occurs over years. If the troop is committed to running a New Scout program, you need to do what you can to keep the NSP intact, even with three boys. Much will depend on how active these three are. Three solid new Scouts and a good Troop Guide has the makings of a great situation. On the other hand, if one or two of the three are not terribly active or commited to the program, campouts with only one or two guys in a patrol makes it difficult to run a real patrol program.

Bottom line, Snow White, is that the parent is Akela in this situation so if they sign-off on the award you need to go with that. But I would have a conversation with them about the spirit and purpose of the program. For mom or dad to sit down with a notepad and try and figure out if and when the Scout completed the requirements is useless. The purpose is to give the Scout and his family an opportunity and program to get out and do things. I always felt a side benefit of the belt loop program was to fill in the long months between rank awards. A belt loop or pin or two at most pack meetings give the Scout a sense of accomplishment and little recognition.

I think you have to ajust your idea of "active" for the oldest Scouts. It's not going to be the same as with an enthusiastic 11-year-old who attends every meeting, campout and activity. In the troop I serve, most boys are taking very rigorous high school classes. For the guys who are junior or senior, classes and college plans rightly take priority. For my own son, a HS junior, it taken several years for him to learn to look at his school work and make the call not to go to Scouts, or band practice, or the movies with his mates. He's missing very popular ski trip this weekend to put in some last-minute prep work for the SAT the following weekend. He gets a big attaboy from the old man for that. The older guys tend to take somewhat of an "emertius" status. They'll cherry pick the activities they like and attend troop meetings to just hang out with their mates. I'm okay with that. Generally these guys have earned it. They are typically Eagle or close to it and have served mutiple terms in top leadership positions. A couple are planing to attend Jamboree this sumer and/or Philmont next year. I'm glad to have them.

Big fan of Gold Bond. We buy the mega size at BJ and leave it by the latrine at summer camp. A word of caution, however. DO NOT use the Gold Bond foot powder on the giblets. It's extra-extra strength.