blw2

Good idea, but I'm comfortable that this change will happen. I have a feeling that these docs we are looking at are still rather preliminary..... just based solely on what is maybe a bad assumption, but it makes zero sense to not finish in the way one starts. My assumption being that "they" think logically. I'm comfortable that there will be a provision written in someplace, or else the new requirements will in someway mirror the old so that these boys caught in the middle won't be affected. Regardless, I can't imagine that there are very many leaders that would do nothing but continue marching on with the books they started anyway, and they will just jam it down council's & national's throats so to speak. As I see it, the den of WEBELOS is really like one grade or rank really.... not WEB1 and WEB2..... (I don't really know where that came form anyway)....and this "class" happens to run for 1-1/2 years or whatever it is..... August 2014 through February 2016..... so even if a boy joins this den later.... say January 2015 and can some how manage meeting all the requirements..... he would still be working the same program as the rest of this den. On another note, I personally sort of wish or hope that they'll change the AOL patch slightly, so that the last class of the old school AOL, WEBELOS class of 2014-2016, and all those that came before it can be recognized. Not saying that one way is better than the other.... I really have no idea about that...... it's just different.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a boy do that. I have never seen a boy ask another about a belt loop he was wearing. They receive them, and that's that. My son has a belt almost full from his Tiger and Wolf years. Don't think he earned a single one his bear year...... well he probably earned a few by default, but had zero interest in sitting down to run through requirements to see if he did. Yes, through the belt loops works quite nicely. I always thought the belt full of bling, while busy, made his uniform look like a boy that was active in scouting. Sadly, he has finally outgrown the blues he has worn since tiger year, and will start WEBELOS with his tan shirt and green pants. Now that would just look goofy I think with the blue belt and loops. I wish that he could wear his blues through his 1st WEBELOS year to have some more time wearing his full diamond of tiger, wolf, bear, and bobcat

True, council doesn't have say over your rules..... BUT.... they have a set of rules they use for the council race. In my neck of the woods, the district race also uses those rules...... so to fit in, so do we. Actually, the council rules are written more like a guideline to how to make rules..... but everyone just points to them as "The Rules" For us, we look for a parent volunteer form the WEBELOS 1 den every year to chair the derby. That person pulls together a team, or can do it all themselves if they want coordinates buying the trophies coordinates set up and decorations we have a cash sale of food, something like pizza and drinks, so the chair will coordinate that he'll line up an MC, or just do it himself and someone to run the timing software car runners & track operation we don't have pack level workshops, but sometimes the DL's will have one. think it's a good idea and might help to encourage boy participation and help to reduce the store bought ready made kits that I think should be completely outlawed...... when I see one,. i'll ask boy or dad, did you make that? answer is always the same..... "Yes" Scouts Honor and Do Your Best! Sometimes I agree with Sidney Porter. The grey line between dad made and boy made is to fuzzy, and to be competitive at the district ad council levels is way out of reach for most all the boys. I think it's good to help your boy engineer a winner and to do your best together as a team, so I'm always torn....... sometimes I think it would be better if all cars were made by the boys at a workshop or two in a group setting with limited hand tools..... so that it's an even playing filed.

wow, interesting thread. The numbers here are all over the map We were $60 annually since before my time. Increased to $70 last year with the national dues increase WEBELOS 2 pay a partial, $50 I think it was..... along with 1 popcorn fundraising per year, it seems to work ok. national dues boys life book awards pinewood kit pinewood trophies, decorations, etc.... B&G costs leaders dues and basically everything misc..... except for the camping trips and food during the trips popcorn is so sketchy though, in that some boys sell a lot and others none..... and our huge seller just crossed over so I'm not thinking that our popcorn take will be very high next year. May need to adjust.

My thought is this.... If the district is telling you that you can't offer bb shooting this year, don't offer it. But, I would send out notice to all packs in the council right now, and bring it up at Round Tables, and make sure every Round Table Chair Person is aware. Just a short and sweet thing. Attention: BB shooting will not be available at the next XYZ weekend. Council has determined that it's not allowed since it's not a council event. Please call your DE for further information. I'll bet every pack that has an interest in attending will get on the horn to their DE's and to Council..... and this stupid ruling will get changed pronto.

We have one of those yellow plastic tracks (derby magic) Bought it before my time, but I think it was a donation form a wealthy parent at the time. It's not without flaws, but I like it well enough and it's very light and easy to manage. My son raced the council race and it was on one of those metal tracks. I didn't like it nearly as well. You don't say how big your pack is, but for my money I would get a few dads together and build one.,,,, unless you have a mega huge pack and need many lanes and a well designed system. the old fashioned homemade wooded tracks work just fine. I made a 16ft test lane for my son a few years back. Splurged at lowes and bought some of that PVC trim lumber. I made a single lane used a 1x4 (or maybe it was a 1x6) with some matching PVC lattice strips as a lane guide, face screwed and glued with plumbing PVC solvent. But jointed two 8ft lengths of this together with a couple pocket screws, and overlapped the lattice so that the lattice joint didn't fall on top of the 1x joint. It would be super easy to expand it to multiple lanes and make it long enough for racing. I just elevated one end but a support stand wouldn't be all that complicated either. A starting gate would be easy enough to make too, even if you were going to incorporate a limit switch for a store bought timer. I've gotta say that the timer and software is very nice. I would say for a smaller pack... like maybe 20 boys or less it's not likely worth it though. As someone else suggested, a lane judge works fine, but the software is nice so you don't have manually work your ladders to make sure every car runs on every lane. So, my 2 cents.... homemade is fine, if you don't have extra money you don't need store bought!... and if your pack is of any size, I'd spend money first on the timer and software and add it to a homemade track. Then, if I still had money I'd look at store bought tracks.....

ALCubmom, tag, you're it! I'm in exactly the same situation. Can't get any energy behind volunteers. I'd prefer to stay as a behind the scenes support, but nobody else is going to do it. We've asked the group we've asked individuals..... all we here is, "well I work, so..."

well put

good point papadaddy..... I wouldn't support it if it looks like its skirting the rules. I'd have to read them to know for sure...... but wouldn't the intention of such a rule or guidline be to get the kids out of the house? Was this kid sleeping in the security of a house? Intuitively, i would say that a lot of cabins are basically a not-very-nice bedroom, sort of like having a sleepover at a buddy's house that lives on the wrong side of the tracks maybe.... But what I'm picturing is sleeping open air, certianly would = out of the house by my read. Not if there's a requirement for the scout to have pitched it himself though....

gasp! "Is that a kitchen knife or a sword?" said, as he bites his finger nails.....

I'm not so sure if that's their motivation exactly..... no matter if one is more harried than the other, I think their point is more that the parents set the family's schedule, not the other way around......

one of our ASM's fabed up something out of PVC. I think it was 2inch schedule 40 stuff. He painted it and it looked a lot better than if left raw. I thought it might be too flimsy when he showed it too me, but it's not very tall and works well enough Might be lighter than closet dowels as koolaidmad described..... but I'm thinking not.

So I'm not all wet with my thinking then! I agree, I see no reason the committee is involved with scheduling. That's why I'm troubled enough to post about it We need to schedule our own meetings..... sure We might to get involved to steer them to when rooms are available at the church, but really not even then. The boys can look at the church calendar as can the SM. Otherwise, we can reserve the room for them when they "ask" for it, right? I was taken aback by the SM with all of this...... very surprised actually I get that he thinks "The Boys aren't there yet" in regard to the effort to transition to boy lead..... BUT This doesn't seem like it's helping to get them there either..... I can't really say where the boys "are" in terms of readiness, since I don't know them like the SM does. It's a young troop, so maybe we do need to continue being Cub Scout Leaders a little while longer....... So my conundrum - how to get the SM to realize how this could be torpedoing the BL program.

new post to avoid hijacking another thread....

Stosh I've gotta say..... I'd like to attend a camp cooking school taught by you. I'm glad this thread popped back up today. I was planning to bring up a very related point at our troop committee meeting tonight. An ASM added to the agenda a point to discuss about needing a second patrol box. Not that I have any designs on changing the plan or direction, I do still want to put a bug in the ear of the SM and ASMs..... I've often felt that it would be good in many ways for the boys to kit up as if every camping trip is a back country camp (hiking, canoeing, etc.). All the big stoves, table, canopies, and other equipment certainly has a place and is needed.... but I think the boys would be much better equipped if cooking and camping as you are describing was better practiced. I know I wish I had more experience doing it for one!

Well... in principle maybe, but really.... why must we? Is it written into our charter someplace that we must support them financially? I personally see very little benefit from council. Granted my view is limited, but I just don't see it. Sure, they process my unit's applications..... but that is really more of a service to the BSA, right? They operate a store so we can buy all the uniforms and trinkets.... but then we pay for all that stuff, and I'm sure there are profits made there going in some direction other than mine. They own the camps, but then I pay every time I go to use them. Any training I get is put on by volunteers..... It seems like the roundup staff has a small budget for incidental supplies, but that's certainly not much.....

Now that assumes that there's a yearly schedule. What a great goal, for a personality type like mine anyway...... but for some folks that's too hard and might be a drag! My son's DL is probably the best we have, but he only plans out a months worth of meetings at a time We have run into this exact issue more than a couple times, and I gotta admit it frustrates me to have worked on something at home, then to take an evening to go do it again........... and I've corrected my son a couple times for blurting out and repeating over and over that "I already knew that...." or "I already did that....". I've been trying to teach him humbleness and being polite.... but now that I'm typing this maybe I should have let him go on and on to make the point. As mentioned before though, I'm not clear on how this could happen in WEBELOS, unless the pin was done at a camp or other council event where they do that stuff....

good for you! I've never heard of a spring roundup. Good idea though if you have a summer program. I would like to do some sort of reach out to the kindergartners for next year though....

on a similar vain, I'm trying to figure out why my district and council doesn't offer an OWL course by itself. (or WELOT, or whatever it's called). In the rare even that it's offered it's coupled with IOLS. Just like the BALOO requirement is different, these are too, right? Different topics, different purposes..... why confuse the issue?

~~JasonG172, my son and & I will join your pack! For us it's a lack of volunteer energy, and some of the families just aren't campers or outdoors type people (well, if it's not on a soccer field) I would love to do half of what you are doing. Historically, we did maybe 3 or 4 camps or trips.... usually one is a big thing like a trip to sleep on the USS Yorktown, Seaworld, or the like. Maybe 1 or 2 state park for car camping/ RV camping, 1 council camp such as Cub O Ree..... More lately we are suffering form a lack of volunteer energy, and so we have done less. We did one car camping trip this year and one overnighter at Kennedy Space Center (recommended). I tried to push for participation at a council camp, and for the Bears and WEBELOS at the WEBELOS Akela weekend. No interest. Next year might be even less from the looks of it.

In Florida I would disagree that summer is the best time to camp...... but that's just me. Our pack traditionally does nothing in the summer. It seems that it's time for the leaders who are burned out to step away form it for a while..... and the parents and boys get into family trips, sports, etc.... If we had more volunteer energy, I would certainly be pushing for something in the summer. I think 1 good pack gathering, maybe a potluck picnic with games..... or perhaps a camping trip or a push for the group to go to an organized summer camp...... just one thing would be great. As it is, that's not happening for us any time soon..... To the OP, I agree with the others re. stepping up.... as Stosh said though, only if it's in the cards for you .... Otherwise, I wouldn't wait until September even if your chosen target pack doesn't meet in the summer. I would make contact now to let them know you're coming. Might be easier to fill out the app and get the ball rolling before the September rush. Another idea might be to attend the district summer activities. Might be an opportunity to get to know the other packs better.

Great advice I think, but that's just theory on my part.....when I started taking on more as ACM/CM.... I signed up for "live training" thinking that I could certainly benefit from those things. I was already fully "trained" from the online stuff, and have done more reading that most of our leaders..... and of course spend time here. I was looking forward to the group discussions and questions. Showed up, and there myself, and another scouter fully trained with several years experience, but taking on a new role as pack trainer. exactly two students. I think there were 3 instructors, so the ratio was great! Unfortunately, they had "stick-to-the-script-itis" so I wasn't able to really benefit much from it. Based on my limited experience..... the only thing I can add is to keep reminding yourself to keep it fun..... get the boys up out of their chairs at the pack meetings with skits, games, activities....... and talk to the boys, not to the parents. Oh, and be stingy with your time. I have found that it's easy to take those multiple hats, but as CM you really shouldn't. It'll get to be too much. You really have to lean on the CC, den leaders, committee members, and other parents to do their parts.