blw2

I like the idea of training @@Stosh Personally, i wish that I had had the opportunity as a younger man to have some real hands on experience in true adventure camping.... not just the exercises and demos a lot of scouts get.... emulate something like these survival camping schools that folks pay money to attend http://beargryllssurvivalacademy.com/ or http://www.truenature.org/earth-living-skills-course2.html or similar A week at a BSA camp for some real learning to prepare them for some real adventure..... I'm in!.... but it's gotta be hands on and full immersion doing, not just demonstrations and lectures.....

Hey, in a way I see no problem with the jar of PB simple, cheap, and you can do a lot with it.... My brother in law tells stories about his father taking him and his brother out for a weekend in the mountains with nothing more than maybe a jar of PB and a few crackers, something like that..... or maybe just a loaf of bread.... or 1 can of beans.... something like that His father grew up in Holland during WW2, and had experienced getting by with far less than that.... I kinda think it was an interesting lesson of getting by, but also in appreciation for better things. So, if you let the boys plan PB sandwiches all weekend, they might get creative and think of new ways of using it.... or they might tire of it and plan better next time.... especially when they smell my steak or burger or whatever form 300 Ft away.... or not. Regardless, They'll remember it, they'll appreciate the freedom, & they'll learn one or more things along the way.... one thing is for sure, one or two days of it won't hurt them! What's wrong with that? am I missing something?

I was having a conversation with my son's DL recently, doing some planning..... drifted into sort of a what-if.... suggesting in "hind site" that we could have done the WEBELOS experience much more as a boy-led patrol. which drifted into a discussion of how nice troop life would be.... Anyway, I was discussing the concept or truly boy led, that is often discussed.... I told him the story that one of you posted, i forget who.... about when you go on a backpacking trip or a hike..... the boys have the map and compass and you are only bringing up the rear.... He made some comment like, oh boy, you hope they don't go the wrong direction.... I said so what if they do? teaching moment.... More or less said that you hope through pre-planning and pre-coaching that they will have a good plan and follow it but you're not letting them march off a cliff, and so you set up camp in the new place called "lost", regroup, learn, and have adventure... I'm not sure if he thought I was crazy or if it was an eye opener to boy led.... both have the same look

I'm no venturing expert, by any stretch..... but i'll brainstorm I'm thinking excursions away from the camp facility.... perhaps using the BSA camp as a base. Is the lake large enough for overnight canoe options?.... maybe 1 or more nights camping on sandbars out at the lake? Scuba in the lake? Mountain setting, so what sorts of trails or off trail multi-night backpacking might be done?.... maybe some off grid rappelling, Bear Grylls inspired stuff?

But my kids attend on Wednesday! I was raised protestant, and this practice of not holding it Sunday in conjunction with church service has always seemed weird to me.... But it's big business in our parish. We have a church school on site, but for kids like mine that attend government school or I suppose homeschoolers too, there are a lot.... they basically fill up the entire school on Wednesday late PM, and again later in the evening on Wednesday.... then they have another session or two on Sunday afternoon. I agree with you, except to say generally in observation from the outside that the "sporty people" tend to be better situated socially. It could be a "grass is always greener" thing, but it seems that generally they have more friends, are more popular, etc... I'm not a sporty person, and in fact I find that they can also be a bit offensive. Many times I have been having a conversation about something with a person, only for that conversation to be completely hijacked by some sporty person approaching us & rambling on & on about the "game"..... some stats, predictions, etc.... Doesn't take long for my eyes to gloss over and then I either fall asleep or walk away..... BUT I have tried hard to not model, or push my non-sportiness onto my son, but he's the same way..... I honestly think it's genetic as much as anything... Yes, band has pushed to almost the same level. My son is just starting so it's not hard core yet, but there are indications that it will be for sure! In fact I have had the thought that that I would be ok for my son to focus his energy more in band if he so chose to.... Since scouting can be such a mess, with all the adult interference and so on.... and from what I can tell none of his troop choices really approach the ideal that it could be. And one troop option has such un-scoutlike scouters "at the helm" that I would discourage my son from going there.... So band is a potential option for personal growth, friendship, etc.... and I think most band kids are likely to be intelligent peers which ain't all bad....

off topic, but Holy Smokes! from my perspective that is one huge pack! I had my hands full as CM in a lot smaller pack than that...... but then I couldn't get any help, either.... sorry, back to the topic of Blue Cards....

I strive to encourage complete and full uniform wear, but I'm not one to call folks out on it.... So maybe I'm a "police explorer" rather than the "uniform police" For what it's worth, IMHO I lean towards this thinking, like CalicoPenn & scoutldr..... EXCEPT to say in the case of a mentor pin..... I can imagine if such a pin is ever given to me by my son or another boy as a way of saying thank you for what I have done as a scout leader or other envolved adult role... then that I would consider as something that I HAVE DONE. I did earn something, their thanks. Personally, I would wear it with pride, regulation or not. Some random pin given out to everyone attending some meeting, probably not.... because it wouldn't mean much to me. So my litmus would be.... does it mean something to you? is it something you treasure? If so, wear it!

That Handyhammock thing looks a whole lot better than the homemade rigs I've seen. I'd love to try tarp camping, or these open hammocks under a tarp.... but there's just way to many bugs here in FL for my liking, and the thought of waking up cuddling a snake or some other reptile.... no thanks.... so I keep leaning back to full tents. I think that's' why the hennesy hammocks are more appealing to me.... the integral bug netting.

This Hedgehog/Stosh script is exactly the sort of thing I imagine as the basis for the "One Program" orientation. It really strikes me that all of these questions.... and even the concept "Adult Led" could have been squashed early on if only for some basic orientation. In just a couple minutes reading, it's pretty clear what the goal should be. Put that into one of those 5 minute online training videos for every scout parent to watch. Boom, you have your basis for the solution to the OP's question. A couple hours of walking through a few more scenarios as part of training for SM and ASM so that they have a better focus on it from a few other angles.... different situations, meetings vs trips, How to make those various SUGGESTIONS to the Boy leadership, etc.... And maybe another training video for every new scout to watch, from their perspective.... perhaps with a bit on how they might handle the Adult who is starting to stray.... And it really doesn't seem that hard, on the surface at least, for us t all be singing from the same hymnal! One Program

true, but you'd hope that you'd not be run off from the campfire discussion with other scouters before you end your scouting "career"

I've never tried it, but I have wondered about it since seeing something about Hennessy Hammocks a few years back. I have hoped to have an opportunity to try one out, but so far have never found a display in a store or anywhere to try. They're just too expensive to order just to try.... As a side sleeper, i'm not so sure..... but I have talked with several folks that claim to be side sleepers and they love it. I took a course at our U of Scouting last year on the idea, hoping to get a try. He was an Eno user, as were some of the students...... but I didn't get to try it. One point of discussion was using a bipod setup and ground stakes when trees were not available....

This one line points me back again to my thought that what BSA needs in one program, clearly and very simply defined.... It's not where you or me wants it to be.... isn't it where it should be? It really seems like we all tend to lean to the same ideal for this..... but yet there are so many different variation on the theme, and it seems to me that it should not be this way.

oh, I hate to see him go.... he was positive contributor and a real loss there from the discussion..... I wonder what set him off. Very true.... but it's the very active ones that don't insult others that tend to be missed. I took a break a few months ago, but that was driven by unit politics and my need to get my mind out of scouting a while, not by taking offense to something here.....

interesting points @@Eagledad. When i wrote what I did about sticking with his best Buddy..... I was thinking more on the micro-level.... a scout's best friend..... not from the high altitude macro level of the troop's perspective re. the whole den. I suspect that you are spot on..... there's always a high probability that at least some don't care to stick with the entire den. I would expect it unless the den was very small to begin with.... Or maybe from a pack with multiple dens where they are selected more like a boy led patrol is.... with only buddies together in each den. Our den certainly fits your model. My son has two other boys in the den he considers friends..... the rest he could care less about. No common interests, different demeanors, etc.... Sadly, one of those boys will likely go to another troop because of an older brother and dad's involvement in another troop.... Honestly, as a dad, I would almost prefer he get put in different patrols from his buds so that he could expand his friend base more.... but I know better.... and that would be adult stuff getting in the way....

Very similar situation in my Den, and I asked a similar question a few weeks back.... Most of our boys are done with the (old program) AOL requirements except the troop visits and the time active since finishing 4th grade.... My understanding is the adventures in the new program are each designed to take a month of den meetings, etc.... and since your den plan for the other boys is probably like ours.... not focussing so much on the achievements as we are focused on having fun in constructive ways for the remaining short time we have.... (we're crossing over in January) So, I'm guessing there will be a lot of homework necessary.... but by March I'd guess it wouldn't be that difficult.... The alternative is, the new boy, joins the den, gets to know the boys, has fun, and does what he can.... then joins a troop like any other non-cub scout boy would.

who was the other recent drop.... I missed it?

@@Stosh, I know your troop is very small now, so this doesn't really apply now..... but just to clarify..... if your troop was bigger, are you saying that you would select patrols, but not vary them by more than a year or two in age? Your next post seems to indicate that you leave the boys totally to their own devices to figure out patrol structure.... so i'm confused.... As I mentioned before, the troop my son will likely go to, has the NSP setup I think..... so at least there's some comfort in knowing that I won't be dealing with a disappointed son who has to deal with his best bud and him getting split off into different patrols right away after they cross over.... I'm not so sure the NSP is the best.... but at least there's that! I'm not sure where I'll land.... or if I even will.... Writing back around to the subject of this post, getting adults up to speed.... I'm at least as energetic about scouting, if not more so than most (based on my willingness to spend time here, attendance record at round Tables, the cumulative time I have invested in the pack, etc...) ..... & I'm probably at least as up to speed with the patrol and boy lead concepts as most of the current committee and leaders are..... many probably aren't nearly so with a few more...... but they have a well staffed corps on the committee and a well staffed ASM corp too..... So while i'm energetic about scouting, and want to help in some way.... and my son wants me to stay involved too.... I'm not sure if I'll land in a spot beyond merit badge counselor or some such thing because they already seem to have enough adult involvement.....

Unfortunately, My CO's troop.... the one my son will likely go to.... recently instituted a NSP I think On one hand, i can see a benefit though.... having listened to an interview of Green Bar Bill a while back, and he was talking about patrols and the idea is that it should be a natural group of boys that would want to run and hang together anyway.... a group of buds, the Kind Baden Powell found using his book camping and doing Scouting Adventures on their own at the start of the scouting movement... Extending that logic, I can't imagine there are too many 16-17 year olds that would choose to hang with a bunch of 10 year WEB crossovers... or visa versa.... So i'd imagine that natural selection would place the younger boys together and the older boys together if left purely to the boys to team up But the lack of older boys to mentor, teach, and guide is a concern I naturally had when i first heard they made that move.... We'll see.

I just listened to a podcast yesterday, that kinda sorta indirectly relates to this thread.... http://scoutmastercg.com/podcast-284-assistant-scoutmasters/ The question was about what is the ASM's job, really? In his reply, he suggests that a good number of Assistant SM's is two. The 1st ASM is in line to takeover, and the 2nd is next in line Anyone else that wants to help the troop joins the committee. I think this premise makes sense..... greatly reduces the excessive parent involvement But I also imagine that a lot of good "geiser-talent" goes to waste.... an example.... the troop my son will likely go to I think has 4 assistant SM's and a lot of committee members. My son wants me to stay involved. I would like very much to stay involved too.... at least at some level.... I bring some outdoors skill to the party, along with much excitement for the game of scouting....but if there isn't a place for me??? I would very much like to help out on many of the camping and other outdoor adventures, but the last thing I want to do is my part in making the adult:scout ratio 1:1 or more!

I haven't tried it, but I have a friend that does it. I used to kayak, but have little interest in the paddle board, but it does seem maybe just a tiny bit simpler (less stuff) than a kayak.... It looks to me like more of a novelty because the folks I have seen doing it are going no place in a hurry. Probably a great balance workout though..... something most of us could use for sure.... I can think of another possible advantage over a kayak ..... and that is the higher perspective. Might be better for wildlife viewing.... paddling along the shore quietly.

I'm not in college and I don't have tons of time.... but I've caught myself going on far too long with folks about scouting, mostly my friends who are scouters in the pack..... Some of us have passion about it, and some not so much..... I'm probably the longest winded about scouting of the scouters I know.... I can't speak for the others.... but when i suggested limiting the meeting.... if 15 minutes or whatever..... it's not to say that I wouldn't end up talking with them for longer either at that time, or as a follow-up on a later date.... if it was warranted... I just feel that we as volunteers need to value our time.... and if we don't they sure won't. By my thinking, and initial shorter meeting might help to cut through the "fluff" and cut to the chase...

At Kennedy SC, some folks had egg crates or thin foam pads.... didn't work out so well for those poor souls. They did allow air mattresses but I used my TrailPro thermarest, and my son was on his thermarest pad. It amazes me that these thin little things can be comfortable on a hard concrete slab. they turned the AC way down at lights out, so it got cold in there under the shuttle, and I slept great with my ear plugs! My son still talks about how the night seemed like 2 minutes. I think his being worn out had a little something to do with that....

I've heard of some that would refuse to meet. They would take the hard line. To me, i think that is too harsh, and would tick me off as a parent. They would say, ok. I think not ok. I'm a Cub Scouter and inexperienced with troop level stuff.... but Personally, I would not agree to an hour meeting. I would really push hard to keep the meeting short.... maybe I'd tell them I don't have an hour but would be happy to talk with them 5-10 minutes after the meeting, but WITH their son....i would listen to the parent, with very little comment (trying anyway)..... and focus most all answers or questions to the scout, and not the parent.... maybe even asking the boy why he isn't asking the questions....somewhere in there explaining to the parent briefly about the idea that the scout is missing a growth experience here.... My thinking is that this way, the parent doesn't feel ignored or blown off..... but gets to see a demonstration of how it should work, kind of at least.... I'm reminded of a podcast, let me see if I can find it.... Here it is... doesn't directly apply, but there are some close parallels i think... http://scoutmastercg.com/scoutmaster-podcast-193/ I liked his analogy.... the parent wouldn't run out onto the field during their son's soccer game and kick the ball for him, would they?....

I agree if most or all 14 stay,. and most or all 14 are active Fairly safe bet though that a couple will drop, and a few others won't be overly active My son's den has always had more than 10 on the roster.... a few years routinely 10 or more active. Some come, some go.... It functions ok as is, last year I suggested to the DL that he might want to split the den after we had several new boys join, but he held out ok. Personally, i think 10 or more active ones are too many.... but if you split 14 into two 7 boy dens, then IF several in a den are not at all active, there's not enough energy in the den for it to be fun. based on my experience, you need at least 5 or 6 for the meeting to feel right.....

wonder why the post I entered here yesterday is gone?