Tampa Turtle

4 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I think so as well. Many online journalistic outlets will use "unnamed sources" when they are talking about stuff they saw on Reddit, Facebook, Twitter or other message boards. If there is an email how come Miss Nashrulla did not quote it in it's entirety in her article?

We will find out one way or another. The employee videos and upper level discussions eventually made their way here. I would think some more disclosures are inevitable as BSA has to move forward with planning and dissemination. It will take a lot of organizational discipline to control the pacing of information because of social media. I think for example in the case of a retro-active approval of girls prior service (ala Ms. Ireland) folks wanting to take credit for that 'victory' will outrace BSA National and, possibly, once again force them to make a PR announcement before prepping the rank and file. That's my speculation.

After reading the articles some of the comments seem like it was paraphrased from discourse on Scouter.com. That said I suspect IF there is a 'rambling' email it WILL get out. (I doubt anyone outside this Forum will care that much) The President of the United States cannot stop leaks so why the BSA CSE. 

I agree that Surbaugh keeps trying to please all people...not possible. It is (predictably) becoming a mess and a preventable one at that.

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

As the captain on the Titanic said...the ship is sinking, time to go

Ah so dark. Play on band play on. With Scout Sunday around the corner perhaps "Nearer My God to Thee".

And I thought the captain stayed.

I will tell Mrs Turtle to save the money and find a Wolf Den (now easily recognizable by the red kerchiefs) to just make one out of paper mache.

The more I think about it the more I like it! How about a tiny one for the mantle holding the ashes of dear old Mr Turtle. (or maybe a little backpack)  It can join my wives collection of the ashes of 3 Sheppard's and 5 Cats. 

14 hours ago, perdidochas said:

That's what my son chose to do. We gave him his choice whether to to Bears twice (with me as the Den Leader), or go ahead and go to Webelos. He chose to stay in Bears twice--for him, it was less of an ego blow to be in a den with his current classmates, rather than the ones in the grade ahead of him.  I think this should be done based on the individual scout. A blanket rule doesn't really work, IMHO.  

I discussed this with Mrs Turtle and she wished she had one boy stay back a year in scouts so he would be more socially in sync with his contemporaries. So "we don't repeat" is not an iron clad rule...I will eat my words. (crow over a campfire...does this count for cooking MB somewhere?)

We must strive when we disagree not to be disagreeable. (working on that...)

14 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

I suspect the increase "skin in the game" will go something like this:

• Scouting has been playing up the "family Scouting" angle.
• Units that have a more traditional Scouting program will feel pressure to have more "inclusive" programs and events. Simply said, less backpacking, more plop camping.
• Parents may treat troop committee meetings more like pack committee meetings, where they (mistakenly) think that the committee drives what the boys (troop) do.
• The parents will push their kids to have their (family Scouting) voice heard, or will volunteer as leaders and attempt to take over boy-led programs and activities.

While I could see this happening, it is already happening when some parents join, so not a new issue. Will it increase? Who knows. As @Eagledad said, some parents think the amount of clout they have is related to the number of kids they have in the program, or how many WB beads they have, or how long they've been a volunteer.

I actually think what will happen will be the drop-n-dash, leaving their sons (and now, daughters) at the new BSA one-stop-shop for youth activities. What impact THAT has on an outdoor program is anyone's guess.

I think that is what is happening in our Troop now; thank you for articulating that.

3 minutes ago, CherokeeScouter said:

You people obviously have some time on your hands. Why don't you spend some of that time to help me in my crusade to revamp the Eagle Project Workbook. 

I'm pretty stupid I am sure I could beta test. 1st someone needs to break it open.*

* now @Sentinel947 I accept this as a spin off for a new topic.  I think we need the flashing "segue way" signs like I saw on a Monty Python episode.

2 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I appreciate the feedback Turtle. The Moderator team is having a conversation about this at the moment, and once we build a little consensus regarding it, we'll make a thread to get feedback. 

No one loves the cat herder especially the cats.

I think the thread manipulation (spin offs, close outs, deletions) seem to be getting out of hand. I know things meander off course but now things read more fragmented than before...natural conversations seem to wander off course. I can see Moderator intervention if folks are getting kinda rude but is kinda taking the fun of the forum...you know the whole Campfire metaphor. That is my two cents. 

I did not get a survey this time, alas.

@Eagle94-A1 it is eerie (or more likely a sign of the times) that we are having similar issues. 

All the way up to the time they age out of Boy Scouts any given 'age' or 'grade' group vary in physical, emotional, and mental maturity. Scouts is where those differences can be accommodated easier than in a school environment.

Ah but the down arrow gives the user that little shot of endorphin-vengeance for a split second. Hard to give that up!

To follow up on the less satisfying metaphorical super soakers on the Forum does that mean I can go back to singing the 'little teapot song' again?

I looked at a couple areas with known 'rogue' units...I didn't see anything there either. It has never been the perfect tool.

28 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

One quick update that I’m not sure if anyone else noticed. The Be A Scout search now shows if packs are Boy only, Girl Only or mixed.  I haven’t found any that are listed as anything but Boy Only but something to watch for as this ramps up...

Well it may default to 'Boy' pack until told otherwise.

14 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

But you should only be stored in there after being cleaned via the 3 pot method...

I love the Patrol Box casket! Sometimes I think that would be the best use of them...but I am sure once my scouts got me fit in there they would later realize they forgot to pack something and ask someone to run to Walmart or somewhere to get another hand or something.

The last thing you want is a Boy Scout parent who has never camped at least once because they will have a lot of misconceptions, fear, and embarrassment of an area they know little. It often influences the boy.

I think this is where some Cub Scout packs make a mistake by doing almost no Family camping at all. As a slightly older parent of my peers I found a whole generation of parents who had never really camped at all and were quite skittish about it. We did a lot of 'introductory' cub and parent games (set up a tent, sleeping bag packing competitions, candy fire instruction, packing list skits) that were aimed at the parents as much as the kids. Tried to get the fear factor down. I also organized the older Webelos and some Boy Scouts to be on the look out for families that might need help setting up.

Since I had never camped until my Tiger Cubs made me do it (I am naturally a bit of a bookworm) I was introduced to outdoor adventure late (fortunately some scouters took me under their wing) so I tried to translate between the two worlds. (That is why I always end up being the new parent instructor in the Troop.)

I think @Cambridgeskip's pictures are brilliant. Not only do they convey that the kids are having fun but that the parents feel more involved. I knew a troop where a dad was a professional photographer...not much of a camper...but his big contribution was taking a lot of candid action shots from a distance. They are some of my favorites of my son. I have tried to recruit a parent to do that at campouts but a big fail is they never upload the photos in a timely manner. Likewise I wish I could make this a primary role of the Troop historian...seems a natural fit doesn't it?

On Scout Sundays our Troop used to set up a 'sample campsite' complete with lashed bamboo gateway and 1920's canvas tent with a fire and dutch oven troop at our Sponsoring church. Naturally the older parishioners loved it which went a long way in smoothing over the latest damage we had inflicted in the church BUT an unseen benefit was some of our scout parents saw it and really started digging the outdoor method.  Sometimes it was enough to 'satisfy' the more potentially disruptive over-protective parents from coming out to inspect a trip and got some of the younger new scouts excited about camping. It was a win-win.

I think that after a while the younger parents have an appreciation for exposing their boys to the 'big trips' (Appalachian Trail week long section hikes, Seabase, Philmont) when they see those pictures but the monthly campouts are a tougher sell. Sometimes we have turned a parent around by trying to link campout skills to things a boy can do it at home....a boy that suddenly starts cooking at home, using a knot to solve a problem, or knows how to pack for an over nighter and says he learned it in scouts can spark that outdoor program enthusiasm. 

I guess when in doubt throw in that "unplug the electronics and get in touch with the real world" speech.

My 5 cents.

Thank you, on this morning of merit badge mill melancholy I open my browser to a big bowl of Green Bar Bill awesome.  Warms the soul. 

If they get held back it is still a blow to their ego, making them 'repeat' a year in Cubs makes no sense.

3 minutes ago, gblotter said:

From your description, the problem seems to be the lack of a robust outdoor program - not the focus on advancement. In our troop, we seem to find room for a balanced mix of both.

*sigh* We HAD a robust outdoor program but the youth (influenced by their parents) CHOSE to abandon it. We used to find room for both but after the wheels fall off this year will have to start rebuilding again (...and this was suppose to be a rebuilding year.) Anyway next topic.

@gblotter Of course, I do not look at advancement begrudgingly...but it is the natural byproduct of having fun in the scout program...it is not the object of it. That point has been discussed, ad nauseum, on this forum for years. I have nothing wrong with having adventures and helping the boys organize themselves to get credit for what they do. And I have seen PLC's come and PLC's go, and good SPL's and not so good ones. But the first time I have ever seen this many months of sitting around (actually canceling outdoor activities to sit around). In working with youth led I certainly am willing to be proved wrong but with so many scouts moving down the road to another troop it is killing me. (but maybe I should just move down the road with them...that Troop actually is doing a traditional program.)

11 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Perhaps where we disagree is that I believe working on advancement and merit badges (in addition to camping, patrols, and skills) is also a valid part of a traditional Scouting program ... especially if the boys are voting for that.

Not 'also' but 'instead'. Only one actual camping trip this year...typically we would be on #5, no patrol meeting time or activities, minimal skills. I guess your position is if the boys voted to turn themselves into an Eagle Mill you would be OK with that. And did you note that I mentioned attendance has dropped in half?

@gblotter

I have been the rodeo more than once. I am a big big proponent of boy led. But this leadership, heavily influenced by their parents, has abandoned almost all the traditional program and turned over almost every meeting to adults talking and scouts sitting. The boys in charge really just want to fast track advancement. But camping, not so much. I really think it was a coup orchestrated by the parents.

Since this changed 1/2 the boys stopped showing up, the oldest left, and merit badge completion has slowed. I do not see any positive results. I do support them at the meetings, offer my opinion if asked, and the Scoutmaster and I have talked about it.

If speaking on a Scouter forum in support of the traditional program of camping, patrol work, and actually learning scout skills by doing is denigration by all means tie me to the stake and light the fire. 

On 1/13/2018 at 6:26 AM, qwazse said:

Thanks for the idea. I've been of the mind to make my own casket. Given plans for cremation, maybe I could start with my own urn. Maybe in the shape of a PWD car 5x scale? It would hold patches and neckers until I die ... to hand out to my mourners.

i probably wouldn't put a BSA logo on it ... No point in leaving my estate with hassles from BSA licensing.

Carpentry Merit Badge-

(a) "make, with your leaders permission, a casket for your Scoutmaster or other adult leader. Demonstrate how you measured leader and planned dimensions to fit. If appropriate use hand tools to avoid violating Guide to Safe Scouting guidelines."

(b) If appropriate if hunting a white whale casket may be nailed and sealed with pitch for emergency flotation device"