Tampa Turtle

@Col. Flagg

How would they 'fold' Venturing? Allow Scouts to go past 18?

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have no doubt most positions will be filled.  I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary.

My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits.  My wife’s food pantry is prime example.  They found a guy.  He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc.  However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past).  They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage.   

Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

 

I use to run a non-profit (don't ask) and it is true...if someone believes in the mission you can some great folks...for a while. But eventually realities like spouses, kids, retirement make them start looking however reluctantly. Occasionally you can luck put and get someone who doesn't need the money as much. I always found it cheaper to give a couple nice benefits (as well as freedom) than straight salary. Even a minimal pension can seem pretty attractive these days.

Regardless as folks said earlier I will not be surprised if in a few years we will start reading about BSA's 'looming financial crisis'. In the interim all the proposed cuts will be spun as "right-sizing" and "streaming delivery". For me the only real question is who will cry uncle first BSA or GSUSA? Some sort of Scouting program will survive in the U.S.; it is just too good an idea. 

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Hard to know with her father. He may be quoted out of context, frustrated with the response or lack of response from National,  being a Dad, or being a jerk.

 

If he is a corporate lawyer I think he is quite aware of what he says and how he says it. 

...but philosophically I am with Flagg. 

Sadly I suspect if her she did not look like an all-american girl than this would not even got this far. It helps her case that she is photogenic. 

I think DE's are like many church Youth Ministers; a very important job that is chronically underpaid so that even the most dedicated will tend to be driven from it out of necessity. 

I think She has been courteous and respectful the dad less so. At least that is what it reads like. 

2 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Our Crew does this now. It has become so popular that Scouts who have left the troop (and crew) have come back to attend. 

We had a very active Patrol frustrated by the lack of backpacking plan a 3-day trip on their own (a good sign). They were actively discouraged by a worried CC who said it looked like they were being 'exclusionary'. So they didn't go on their backpacking trip and the Troop didn't either. That was last year. This year I would just scrounge up the two adults, fire up the minivan and go.

We had an engineer whose all 3 boys had the same exact refined car design, year after year. He was WAY too much invested in it. I once had to bounce his his kids car because of aftermarket axles and tires. I loved the year a Tiger came in 3rd out of 100+ cars in our Pack and all he did was push in the nails with the tires and crayoned the heck out of it. (it was a nice ending because mom called me the night before with him crying in the background because divorced dad blew off the last minute work session.) He would won 2nd place too if a wheel hadn't flown off. But yeah the parents ruined the speed category.

Our Pack had a lot of design categories and weighted evidence of a boys actually handiwork heavily. Some of them like the sailing ships were beautiful creations but terrible racers.

I have a big issue with 3-D printing; make it a STEM thing.

@Col. Flagg Exactly. I say that and folks look like I am crazy.  I stopped attending the Committees due to a work conflict and missed 2 PLC's and 'WHAM". I am still hanging out enough to help out a few of 'my' older scouts but I think I will just adopt a policy of avoiding events that will just irritate me. That includes a lot of the neighboring Council Boy Scout events that sure feel like cub-scouting. I think that may be because if you have a Council event and a lot of people show up then it is a success regardless if it really reinforces the principles of the traditional Boy Scout program (see ref: Merit Badge Academies, Museum MB classes)

An older wiser Scouter reminded me there was nothing keeping me from planning my own camps and hikes with my family and a few friends the 'old school way'. If I can talk Mrs Turtle into it she might go though I think she does not see the thrill in too much deprivation. She does think camping means cooking meals on site and not catering; however, "camp cooking" means the man does everything. 

I think we get a bit cynical between the Talmudic reasoning on requirements on this forum and our experience with parental lawyering on advancement on the local level.

Our unit has, suddenly...really like in 3 months, de-evolved into Family Camping with lots of mom's and dad's coming to events, talking down more strenuous events, talking up other that are easy, etc...influencing the PLC on where they will spend their dollars. The mood seems to be "females are welcome so we girls can go camping". The boys do their meal planning and patrol box thing and a bunch of well meaning moms -and they are real nice God bless'em- talk about "getting enough (donuts, pizza, etc) for the whole Troop--don't worry we will pay for it". Some of the hard core boys are having nothing to do with it, they are conspicuous in their absence and some of 'middle aged' boys are OK with it because, well the catered campout makes the quick trip o Eagle that much easier. Frankly I was shocked out quick this change took place...I really cannot blame National. But I do not see it as a good sign. (I see the same thing in some other youth groups)

But a lot of parents are happy --reminds me when you have a good group of den parents who like to get together-- so O do not think the SM or CC will push it too far. I think they are gonna help their boys get Eagle quick and bail. 

'

Indeed the focus on the project should be what you actually are going to do and how to do it NOT the awkward BSA PDF. (I have had some success with boys writing it all out brainstorm style on a white board and taking pictures of it).

A recurring issue with the PDF seems to be the fact that you need actual, not digital, signatures while working and reworking in a (buggy) digital document. Sometimes our District contact has wanted the digital package emailed to him for approval (or other times physical notebook) which requires scanning the physical pages and then splicing and combining into a new PDF a document that is 'locked' by BSA (I have since learned work-arounds). Fortunately my work place gives me a licensed version of the latest Adobe Pro so I can help folks 'slice and dice' if they want. But while it produces a decent consistent product for review the BSA PDF adds new distractions and obstacles--almost every scout I know who used it hates and I get frustrated communications from supporting parents.

I think it represents a solution that was not adequately beta tested by actual users (boys) and when the flaws were found (unsaved data, signatures) no updates were ever issued. Maybe the BSA board should be required to do one themselves.

Yes I have encouraged lads to 'tough it out' as it is the first of frustrating forms in their life (college applications, loans, taxes) that they will have to deal with. While that is true the frustrations of this poor 'tool' often adds a sour note to what should be the documentation of a victory lap IMHO. If this was a poorly designed official BSA flint and steel that frustrated young scouts and failed to reliably make sparks than I suspect National would have improved it by now. But BSA seem institutionally to struggle with adopting electronic solutions...making some progress...but always a step behind.

I'm half out already...I seem to be on another cultural planet then so many of the parents 40 and under...and the boys are changing as well. Still trying to find a productive role...maybe just another Troop.

Stosh since we are part of the same online scouting family can you take me to Jambo? 

On 1/5/2018 at 11:04 AM, Jameson76 said:

Vice President for Family Scouting - Those oranges are not slicing themselves and the participation ranks will not award themselves...somebody has to take the lead

The emphasis on "Family" which appears to be the new buzzword for success (articles in Scouting magazine and Boys Life) is what will no doubt cause much confusion and derision in the next 24 months.  There is no real definition on what it means and if you question what it means one may be accused of not living up to the Scout Oath and Law

How can BSA decide on what is a "family" if the society is conflicted over defining "gender".

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

Hawkwin:  I rank them more by trilogy.  But I completely agree about the Ewoks. 

Ever had smoked trashcan Ewok at a campout?

Better than dutch oven womprat chowder.

Wasn't there somebody who earned Eagle Scout as a boy and NOW had trans-gendered to a female? Wouldn't she be the first Eagle Scout? Just sayin'.

I will concede Star Wars is more Space Opera than Science Fiction but one can still enjoy chocolate ice cream as well as vanilla. 

The original Star Trek pilot has 'number one' the exec to be played by a woman. In 1966. And Star Trek has always had a racially diverse cast...I think Science Fiction frequently has done these things (a female President, a black President, etc) to show that the time portrayed is not of our time...so I do not think anything like this is new.

Star Wars started out pretty white and male because I suspect that was the world George Lucas was familiar with. There is an article out there that discusses parallels with the original Star Wars with the Vietnam war. 

If one is nostalgic for the 'good ol days' of Star Wars one must remember both George Lucas (and Gene Roddenberry) were very liberal politically. I suspect that was true for a long time in Science Fiction which is why writers like Robert Heinlein and Orson Scott Card are outliers. 

@NJCubScouter ...sigh Star Trek VI?...at least you didn't say Star Trek:Generations.

I lean toward letting her do it. I get that youth-led is not a suicide pact BUT over-riding the PLC will be an enormous withdrawal in trust for you in not walking the talk. If she starts to falter it should be up to the PLC to provide proper supports. If she is not grossly unqualified than the only issue is safety and their must be some back up system to alleviate your worry.

I wonder if the scouts know how much we can agonize over these things!

Institutional proof, once again, that National's focus is on image over substance. I suppose it is a sign of the times but one hopes for the best and prepares for the worst. 

I had similar issues with a mainstream church I belonged to. In their quest to become more efficient with resources they enlisted many skilled business types on their committees. Eventually they mostly talked about the best way to deliver the 'product' (sermons, worship) to the 'customers' (parishioners) and used the 'metrics' of attendance and collections per person. Eventually the focus shifted from the core mission of the church (god's message of salvation, etc) to pleasing the congregation even if it meant avoiding core principles. Eventually it blew up in their faces as those who were the traditional stakeholders moved on or died out and the ones that replaced them were fickle, shallow, and easily frustrated.

Our culture merchandises everything (I am tried of arguing with my teen that an offensive and racist youtube video is 'good' because it has had two million views and most be making the person some money) and I argue that some organizations are different. I think National is kind of aware of that but would rather be popular than right. If BSA becomes a more popular brand but loses its soul along the way they will still call it a victory.

I'd say more but I need to trudge out to the desert and cry out in the wilderness some more....

Can we do this in time for World Jambo! I think this would be Arrow of Light or whatever terrible name for Webelos II there is now.

I feel a "Skort Patrol" somewhere in '19.

5 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Accessorize skort with a beret?

Too Snaps UP!

35 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Only lady I saw who wanted a skirt or dress was my wife. And that was only because she HATES the tan and green uniform, and didn't like the old Yellow and Blue one. When she saw the 1950s/60 Den Mother's dress, she fell in love.

 

My mom rocked that Den Mother's dress back in '72. Very formal looking.