Tampa Turtle

@WisconsinMomma ...and I am off to son#2's IEP meeting. More pushing around CYA paperwork than actual help. 

We had a couple scouts do a custom silk screen for our shirts and we had two color micro-fiber shirts a lot cheaper than the competition. They got older and started charging too much but I always thought that screen printing T-shirts would be a good Troop activity. Need adults to deal with the chemicals though. 

If the boys were in the same mixed-age patrol I would have talked to them about it. Patrol spirit and all.

Wisconsin, I had the exact same experience with my older son...it took him awhile to find some 'crony's' and some boys did reject him. Some of it got ugly but he did self-advocate (as they say) with "I got a disability, whats your excuse?". 

When we see this, and we do because there more scouts 'with issues' than the general population IMHO, as an ASM or the SM may invite said boy to do something with us. 

Looking back I see quite a lot of discrimination, still, against boys with disabilities but it was--for my son--less so in Scouts (especially after he had proven himself in some area) than school. But yes as a parent it hurt. 

11 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

My hope in starting this thread was more discussion of #1 and #2, less of #3. 

I think he does deserve an attaboy. Now more than ever we're telling people that if they don't like what's going on in the government, to step up and do something about it. Not many people will step up to that challenge, but Zach Wahls did. Good for him. 

However I also think he lacks the necessary experience. Life experience he has plenty of. He's been in the public eye plenty, and can navigate a live tv interview better than many current senators. But I think it might have served him better to aim for a smaller office first, gain some on-the-job experience and better understanding of the political process, and then go for the Senate seat in his 30s. 

Putting #3 aside.

#1 Kudos.

#2 At one time I was a congressional liason. I was 40 and most of the Senate staffers were Mr Wahl's age (on both sides of the aisle). Most had minimal life experience, came from a privileged background, and were motivated more by ideology than by compassion or pragmatism. It explained a lot about how things were run but I thought more staffers that had some of life's ups and downs would have benefited all of us. Still there was the occasional young outlier. 

I'm getting tendinitis from jerking my knee over so many topics here.

(at that point moderator moves me to new "Sports Related Injuries" thread)

There see several issues being mashed together at once:

(1) Does an Eagle Scout get an attaboy for running for office while being very young?

(2) Does a young elected official lack enough life experience to be a good representative.

(3) Do folks here agree/disagree with Mr. Wahls politics.

I know the staffer at my council has to spend a lot of time on processing the Eagle documentation (I don't know why). A lot of the actual work is done by volunteers. In our Troop we buy the kit for the boy to avoid embarrassment. 

But BSA has just gotten more and more expensive than it needs to be..."a Scout is Thrifty" LOL..

If I was council I'd bury the cost in something else.

I wonder if there will be a special review fee when asking for Eagle credit from unofficial scouting or equivalent youth activities.

@Cambridgeskip I once wanted to be a wargame designer/illustrator and drove 600 miles round trip for a 20 minute interview. I didn't get it but I don't regret the attempt.

I am more a reader than a writer. I have a few acquaintances as writers, one did a lot of articles and ended up doing a autobiography with the singer Johnny Cash which meant he basically lived with John and June Cash  for 6 months which was a rich source of a few late night stories.

Another scouting friend loved comic books and has been a major comic book writer/editor for 30 years. Never got rich bit he was able to do it full time, pay for a house, and send a kid to college. He is swamped at the comic cons and I have brought him to talk to scouts a few times about interesting careers because most of the Troop's parents push the boys into tracks for law/medical/finance.

I once tried writing but I really just didn't have anything to say...it didn't even interest me as I was writing it. I much preferred to paint and make art prints which I struggled at for a while...and went into architecture. Occasionally flirtations with greatness but I am smart enough to know I am a 'B+' talent. I now just sketch and create for my own pleasure. Along the way I did discover I was very good at spotting and nurturing talent in others. So that is my gift and it works well in Scouting.

I guess my rambling point is just by writing and finish one you are ahead of the pack so focus on that. I have a pet theory that almost everyone has one good book in them. Your writing on Scouter seems good hearted in tone and that probably will come across well in a YA book. I think a lot of folks on this board would be interested in a scout-themed book as well.

I was hoping you say YA. It is a good niche. I say give it your best shot, to get it out of your system if for nothing else.

I'd advice based on the few friends of mine who are professional writers to not "talk the story out too much" so it comes out more through the writing.

44 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

Well all I can say is for all the discussion here on the patrol method and allowing boys to lead all I hear are adults making decisions about what impacts this boys program. How about letting the scouts make the decision and the adults live with it. Wouldn’t that be more in line with what you all say you want for boys in scouting? Or is that just talk. 

OA is both a youth and adults organization so adults get a say too. But our if Lodge and National youth leaders are OK with a policy I'd abide with it. Or leave.

No one is forced to be in OA. If the Indian thing really bothers you then just don't do it.

On 1/20/2018 at 5:46 PM, Cambridgeskip said:

On the topic of scouting books......

Back In November I was made redundant from my job (I worked, for HM Revenue and Customs, broadly our equivalent of your IRS) and since then having been taking a bit of a career break during which I'm attempting to fulfill a bit of an ambition to write a book. And this particular book is a children's book set in a scout troop.

I won't give the whole plot away, you can all buy it if it's published! But broadly it concerns a scout who, after getting into trouble at school, is pulled out of scout summer camp by her (my protagonist is a girl. Sorry!) parents completely unjustly. Her patrol promptly help her to stowaway to summer camp.

I'm quite enjoying writing. It's certainly more fun than tax! Will it ever get published? Who knows. Even if it is I doubt I'll ever become the next Joanne Rowling, but you never know

(I try to take break from social media during the weekends so I am a bit behind) Bully for You! Scouts give a lot of opportunities for stories and the younger ones say the funniest things. Is this a children's book or more of a YA story? If it is a children's book will it be illustrated?

Years ago my wife got burned out at her job and took a couple years off to write a novel (based on her work place). I know it was a lot of hard work.

When I was a professor I had to write a lot and it is a slow and painful process for me...the dyslexia makes it extra difficult. I am much better at writing and giving speeches for some strange way...I am available for funerals and Scout Courts of Honor. But writing fiction is , for me, hard, mentally exhausting work. (When I was an artist doing figure painting or sketching for hours was pretty hard too...no one gives you credit for that sort of thing)

Will you be writing under a pseudonym? 

Just now, fred johnson said:

I started reading this thread again.  I keep twinging every time I read the rank requirements.  They are just way way too long.  Too many words.  Turns off scouts.  National really needs to focus on shortening the number of words.  It's just out of control.  The number of words in the requirements have doubled since 2005.  The words the scouts see need to be simple and straight forward.  

Too legalistic. But that may be because so many folks are lawyering them.

7 hours ago, Back Pack said:

I wonder if Germans get offended at the cultural appropriation that happens every October or the Irish every March. Have yet to hear them complain or the appropriation stop. 

My father had many Irish relatives (one was an IRA member and was banned from the house) and they WERE offended by the stereotypical drunkfest. But they got over it...just assumed folks were ignorant and jealous because they were not born Irish.

10 hours ago, LeCastor said:

Our Lodge Advisor attended an event at Philmont Training Center last fall and it was mentioned that, henceforth, OA chapters are NOT to conduct Arrow of Light ceremonies in Native American regalia.  (As a member of the ceremonies team in my youth Lodge, I was always encouraged to call it "regalia" and never a "costume."  Not knocking anyone on the Forum--just an FYI from my Chapter Advisor.)  This doesn't mean that Arrowmen cannot conduct an AoL ceremony out of regalia.  No, it wouldn't have the same effect but would still be impressive to the Webelos in that they see older Boy Scouts in uniform with bright white sashes welcoming them to Boy Scouting.

Over the years, I have kept somewhat close tabs on how the Order of the Arrow is viewed by various Native American nations.  Some support the OA and others don't.  There have been lawsuits filed against the BSA by various nations, so moving forward the OA will have to be cautious about how ceremonies in NA regalia are depicted in various media.  My understanding is that there shouldn't be any published photographs of Arrowmen in regalia whatsoever.  (In theory, no Ordeal, Brotherhood, or Vigil ceremonies should be videotaped or photographed anyway...)

Interesting since our Lodge posts pictures and videos of the dances online and has invited local media a few times. (This the dance portion and not the ceremonies).

Cheerful Service. Dang that has convicted me on more than one occasion to smile and lend a hand.

FYI-Scout Son#2 told me that he had read the buzzfeed article (and thought it was based on reality) and it had made the rounds of various boys in the Troop on social media. Opps! I didn't bring it up, we were doing something else and said "hey you see that article..."

He doesn't care one way or the other about the change but thinks "Boy Scouts" (by that I assume he means National) has no idea what they are doing.

2 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Somewhere a member of the G2SS police is losing their mind.

For dramatic affect try shooting the arrow over the heads of the lads into a pile of timber soaked in kerosene. 

58 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

So wait, is the sane, logical explanation that the article is legit, or that it's fake?  

Yes. For both. 

I think the logic is some girls want to DO the same things as boys but not BE boys. Therefore some accommodation of the uniform may be needed and ,while I wish scouts had remained male only, an altogether reasonable step. Equality of program and opportunity should not equate to exactness of the cut of clothing; especially when we have older female scouts. 

Not any worse than changing some of the kerchief colors IMHO.

The Military has male and female members and their are variations in female versions of gear and clothing. 

(Once again) our Lodge ceremonies has the approval (and over-view) of representatives of the Seminole tribe. Are they authentic? I grew up near a Seminole reservation and I think kinda. Boring too. 

I have seen some lodge patches and dance attire that is more of the "Chief Knock-a-Homa" variety and it is a bit cringeworthy. 

I think National OA should start making Lodges adopt some sort of accuracy and communication with tribes.

Some OA members are really into it but I think it is an aging minority...I just think if they are gonna do it do it right. I also think OA has bigger identity issues to deal with.

3 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

I read this article last night. Surbaugh is not the most eloquent speaker, and the writing sourced in the piece isn't that far out-of-step with his somewhat colloquial writing style, but I don't know how likely it is that Buzzfeed would be getting such an "inside scoop" while other, more credible sources remain oblivious.  I concur with the fact that there are some mighty worrisome things going on at National, but ... I can't say I feel "aghast," lol. 

Give the guy a break, Mr. Surbaugh is an upaid volunteer.

4 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

After 25 years with a Fortune 100 company, I can tell you that c-suite executives are as fallible and poor with diction/grammar/spelling as the rest of us.

He (Surbaugh) hasn't held a job outside of Scouting, has he? If not, that means he was brought up on the disjointed, systemic mis-management which is Scouting. We shouldn't be surprised that this whole roll out is being bungled like it is.

Kinda feels like Boy Led chaos. LOL 

7 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

So I am curious, the way I read the GTSS you would still need to apply the age guidelines for activities even to a family camp out, no?

I keep hearing about "family camping" rules (or whatever we want to call them) and I cannot find anything from BSA that says "If you call it 'family camping' then the GTSS and age matrix are out the window and it's essentially a bunch of families camping."

Am I missing something?

But in my experience that is what EXACTLY what happens. Everyone becomes less vigilant about everything like swim checks, PFD's, even water bottles. We used to never do a Scout Hike with out visible proof of a filled 1 liter nalgene or similar. (I am sure a lot of you have had to wait around for the boy who didn't show up with one). 

I know some of us are reading a lot in because a lot is not spelled out. 

2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

There is also a drone AED out there. I asked a friend if it would be feasible for Philmont, and he said drones would not.

I think the time window for an AED to make a difference is something like 5 minutes +/- isn't it? Maybe a rocket propelled one....but 'drone checks' of overdue crews might make sense but I suspect would detract from the experience...