Tampa Turtle

"girls just wanna have fun"

everyone applauds that and no one cares if something is a girls only thing

but it is not reciprocal, apparently.

Funny thing that works in Marriage too....

27 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

Is this all still the result of the college application effect? That need to have a laundry list of activities on your resume so you can get in to the school you want? 

And does it even work? I would like to think college admissions officers are skilled enough at their jobs to recognize when a candidate just signed up for any and every activity possible, but wasn't really very accomplished in most of them. 

Personally I think it's more telling if a kid does one or two things and has a resume of accomplishments within those activities. I hope that maybe colleges recognize that. But until there is a movement in this country to actually say that and to shift away from this ridiculous "do as many sports/clubs/activities as you can fit into a calendar and then add a few more" strategy of molding our kids into quality university applicants, this over-booked academic culture isn't going to change either. 

I am going through that process now and know a few admissions folks (oh course NONE at a school my kids want to go through). The extra-circulars has become a curve of rapidly diminishing returns-- too many people "gaming the system". One boy of mine got his special attention because he was such a super-deep nerd in his academic area and could converse with his prospective professors and geek out...that has helped him get a second look. His Eagle and post-scout scoutering helped him look a little well rounded (he likes outdoor stuff a lot) but so do a lot of other folks. It was really his passion and what he spent the most of his free time on --an obscure area of academia that will cost me over and over.

We had one scout get into Merchant Marine Academy and while the scouting helped it was the fact he did a couple years working part time at a local marine shop doing welding and basic repairs that lept him over more academically gifted competitors. BUT he did get his 1st taste of welding and automotive doing the Merit Badges.

1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:

I'm about ready to go all Don Quixote on these darn rumor mills.  

Then who will be your Dulcinea?

I meant some of the older guys who were bust and stayed engaged we would work hard to work with them vs. the casual drop outs and ins...those were welcome but I am not staying up all night waiting on a death bed Eagle signoff requirement for them.

That said I am a softie...

The mostly likely event is that GSUSA and BSA membership will, for many reasons discussed over the years ad naseum, continue a slow decline...it is just now that it will blamed on the BS4G initiative by BSA National critics and GSUSA supporters--it may not even matter if it is true of not. 

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I’m not sure I understand why the BSA would want this.  To me, many girls may want to do both. How does maintaining their GSUSA membership harm BSA?   The girls joining our Pack would drop GSUSA membership if they had to choose, but I would never ask that of them.  

I know some girls both in Sea Scouts/Venturing and Girl Scouts.

59 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

It was in one of the reports regarding the survey and was in the fine print. I need to be more specific though as not all LDS scouters were excluded. WESTERN REGION'S results excluded LDS folks, and that region has the bulk of the LDS membership.

Assuming this is true then the only reason I would exclude would be that I knew they were gonna leave anyway. Very interesting, if true.

I disagree to some degree with Hawkwin in that yeah we can drive ourselves crazy reading BSA tea leaves but the problem is when they lack trust and transparency this is a direct result; folks start arguing hypothetical because they want to get their position on the table since some folks at BSA seem to lurk the boards.

@Col. Flagg I agree (again...this is getting disturbing). We have had a few boys in High School football and marching band. In season the demands on their time was huge so if they showed up late for camp-outs (and had to drive 2-1/2 hours to get there) even though they were exhausted but attended as many as they could and stayed in contact with the SM and their Patrol. When the season was over they jumped into it.

3 hours ago, blw2 said:

Anytime you have written rules it seems, you have the opportunity to play semantics.  

Personally, i think that with the exception of a purpose to practice and learn shelter building/tent pitching.... that cowboy camping is about the most pure.  I've never heard the term coyote camping before.  To me, cowboy camping is bedroll on the ground under the stars.  Bedroll could be almost anything....bag and pad, blanket, etc....just open air under the stars

And then the semantics.... some of those basic Appalachian trail type shelters aren't really so far off from that in my mind.... actually I'd think of it more like under a tarp.  Still very basic and not nearly so "indoor" as a tent.

Gets harder and harder to get folks out of their comfort zone. I think it is a disservice to boys not to teach them how to rig up some basic shelter and that they are not gonna die if they spend a whole night in it. My first time I made a simple 'tube tent' made of a walmart blue tarp and some old rope between two trees at my first Boy Scout campout (I had no time to get a new tent...I gave it to my new scout son)....I was surprised how warm it was and it got down to 34 that night. I also found a few mice that decided to come and share my body heat. I tried to shoo them away but gave up, put on my eyeglasses so they wouldn't eat my eye balls while I slept, and settled down to an uneasy 'I'll stay over here and you stay over there' detente. 

Those open AT shelters aint no picnic. What you save in not carrying a tent you pay for in mice, snoring, and some hard, hard boards. 

22 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I'll confess that the closer they get to 18, the less motivated I am to offer my encouragement and assistance. I am really not a fan of these deathbed Eagles (for reasons I've stated in other threads).

Depends on the boy and the situation. The boy that blows us off for a few years and comes back at the last minute for the college application gets a lot less effort than the one who has been active all along, contributed to the troop, and just didn't check off things while having fun --yeah all work hard for that guy.

We had an interruption in our Troop history but when corrected for that gap in 40 (active) years we have had 123 Eagles. Higher frequency the later you go.

1 minute ago, Back Pack said:

Hard to have fire in some states. More often than not we can’t have them. When we do they are low impact fires. Our unit enjoys fires too but has made a commitment to conservation. Fires are only when necessary. Maybe fires are another tradition that needs to go away. 

We do low impact fires and bring our own firewood. We frequently go without because of burn warnings. 

Just now, RememberSchiff said:

If only we had, I dunno, a common oath, a common law....

Yeah! Great idea....

I will say we once had a GREAT campout with another Troop but looking back I think we were the poorly behaved guest.

On a different tangent I was pleased to hear my son#2 (aged out, ex SPL, Eagle) after rejecting the 18 year old ASM route and Venturing is considering being a MBC for the camping, hiking, backpacking Merit Badges.

3 minutes ago, gblotter said:

We have tried camping with another nearby troop on a couple of occasions. I know the other Scoutmaster well, and the boys generally know each other through school, sports, and church associations.

Never again.

The other troop has greater numbers than ours, and "Lord of the Flies" is an apt description of how their campouts operate. After observing what was happening with them, I attempted to segregate our activities in a separate area of the very large group campsite. Unfortunately, things devolved into us versus them scenario between the boys - even including some trash talking and mean-spirited pranks. The other Scoutmaster eventually came over to apologize (but I wish it was his Scouts who were doing the apologizing).

Yes there are different sets of rules and expectations and it seems they rarely match up and it usually is the lowest bar that is set for both Troops. I wish it were otherwise.

39 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

We do that too, and it seems to need an awful lot of very important and vital poking and prodding.

 

I agree, no matter who ideally laid out it does seem to require constant rearrangement. 

16 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Sounds like our unit is like @ItsBrian:

• Mess kits (no paper or plastic)
• Nagelenes (not styrofoam or disposable cups)
• KP water is Steramine (not bleach)
• Use drying cloths (not paper towels)
• Food for camp outs is fully eaten (we have awards for the patrols that have the fewest leftovers)
• Fire are only used for cooking or warmth.
• Hold LNT classes several times a year (both ethics awareness and ethic action award classes).
• Fuel conservation methods are also taught. 

We do use fire for staring at. 

I have a picture of 14 newbies from summer camp in 2010. Of the 'incoming class of 2010' 12 made Eagle (4 deathbed, 3 pre-14), 1 Life, 1 dropout. A really good class...lucked out time wise we trained them early about being responsible for own sign offs and showing up for advancement opportunities at camp outs. 3 of those scouts left us and Eagled elsewhere.  The group of 19 the year before had few 'survivors' and 2 Eagles over very long careers. 

We seem to average 4 to 6 a year (though a peak of 7 a couple years ago) out of Troop averaging 40-60 scouts. We get a number of military dependent boys every year who are at Star/Life and since they are usually only posted 24 months the best of them jump right in to try to make Eagle before they have to move again. 

When I joined the troop a group of older boys brought frisbees for plates and would line them with a paperplate or waxed paper sometimes which would be later used for fire starting. Was funny at meal time when one of them was looking for theirs after it had been thrown around hours earlier. 

8 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@Tampa Turtle What is "cowboy camping"? 

Just a blanket, though I might want to wrap a poncho around it. Best way to see stars at night. And see if it rains suddenly.

48 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@Jameson76It's at the Scoutmaster's discretion (or whoever is delegated to approve by the SM), but I think the intent is to have the Scouts gain skills by practicing putting up and taking down at least one type of shelter (tents, improvised shelters, snow caves, etc.).  I'm not currently a SM, but I would count a hammock + rain fly.  (I like Tampa Turtle 's "elevated tent" concept!  )  I would also recommend / encourage that they try different types of shelters when possible (and where it makes sense).

I try to set a good example by varying it up. I've done the tarp thing a couple times, cowboy camping, bivy sacking, making a lean-to just to mix it up. I usually get a scout or two ask some questions and check it out. I will say its good to practice something new BEFORE the campout.

Hammock camping is a whole new world of fiddly.

6 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

May I ask why you do that?

We backpack a lot and (the bigger ones) are a lot lighter per liter than the trusty old Nalgene. And if you leave it behind it is no bog deal. Mostly because the screw threads match the Sawyer Squeeze water filter. They are pretty sturdy...I haven't cracked mine yet though I might get some new ones after a year or so (you can clean them with denture tabs).

The only downside is you might lose the cap so boys also get the smaller size with the 'sport-sip" cap and swap them out.

The same with the bowls (I actually use an ugly plastic lemonade container) it is all about the backpacking weight and all most of us do is boil water on backpacking trips so we don't really need a mess kit. (I do have a few...my wives old GSUSA one, a 1972 Army one, and a Serbian one with the scariest spoon, fork, and knife set ever made. I only use those for car camping)

It started with being light weight and showing the boys you can be thrifty with scout gear. Save your money and get a good sleeping bag instead.

30 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

For Camping merit badge -

Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched.Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched.

What if they sleep in hammock under the stars, with a rain fly??  Soooo many questions.

For the record, we count sleeping in hammocks as a camping.  Honestly at summer camp most of the scouts sleep in hammocks anyway

We count Hammocks as equal to tent camping if it has a tarp and they sleep in it overnight. I like to think of them as 'elevated tents'.

6 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

Well, IMHO, at least in terms of the kitchen, your troop did it better.  IMHO, Scout campers should be using mess kits and  refillable water bottles, and the scouts should be cooking for themselves.  

Mess Kits! How about bowls or frisbees? For water bottles we advocate Smartwater Bottles and reused them over Nalgenes. YMMV.

Yes Scouts should be cooking for themselves. The only exception would be if for example (we did this) when the older boys were doing an overnight 25 mile speed hike and arrived at camp to find that the younger scouts had cooked them bacon, eggs, and biscuits. Was the younger boys idea and well they were pretty popular for a couple hours.