Tampa Turtle

4 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

... continue to play devil's advocate about why adults shouldn't step in.

Hey that's my job!

Responsibility...what a novel concept! I thought that died shortly after Punctuality (judging from the other parent meetings I went to).  

Hard to sell some of these character issues to boys when some of the parents look like they have no idea what you are talking about. And these are the folks who are coming over from Cub Scouts.

9 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

I have some old versions of Boys Life which had patterns and directions for making your own tent. Of course if mom is sewing on their patches, then this would be a stretch. So much for boys learning to do on their own.

I'm impressed if any of the moms still KNOW how to sew on any patches...most of ours farm them out to a local shop. I do mine...you can tell because they are crooked and fall off sometimes.

I'd love to see some scans of the those patterns!

We no longer have Troop tents...no one took good enough care of them. We tried to pair up tent buddies right away.

The first thing we used to do for newbies was to warn them to wait for a few campouts to avoid making a bad tent decision. See what the other adults and scouts bring on the campouts. We often have an older experienced scout who camps a lot go over the pros and cons of tents, tent sizes, and weights. When we left it to adults they usually went the cheapest route and sometimes got heavy tents that were fine for car camping but not if scouts had to carry them very far. 

In fact we caution new families to borrow or make do for gear initially--at least on the 'big 3' tent, backpacking, and sleeping-bag as  their is a lot to learn. We also encourage some in-troop trading and buying as boys go off to college. One of our most experienced Scouters made up a good overview on the "big 3" and we hand that out to new parents (but not the first meeting--they are quite overwhelmed right away).

13 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Not in our troop or state....  Our troop uses troop tents for the youth and most campgrounds here do not allow hammocks.  I hope you can get the scouts driving the process of selection and ordering  with Adult help.

There is a neighboring troop that uses all hammocks. They now bring some complicated patrol hammock stands and giant tarps on some campouts. Assuming you are allowed to use them there is sometimes a lack of suitable trees...

I am opposed to removing I&P as many issues regarding how to carry out the program will often evolve into philosophical 'why' issues. If we merely wanted to ask "how many weeks does a camper need to do 'x'" than that could just be an official BSA site. Removing I&P does seem to feel like censoring. If I&P really bothers folks just avoid it. I try to avoid Wood Badge threads for the same reason. 

But it is not 'my' board just like while I am a Scouter I do not 'own' BSA. My opinion but not my decision.

23 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

 The platform suffers from lack of computing power, has some serious API issues, poor coding and design issues, reporting issues and lack of a redundant architecture.

Other than that, its great!

10 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Reading the 2016 annual report about income, liabilities and the audit notes are, indeed, interesting. As are the notes from page 17 on the three most important issues facing national and it's finances as of this report.

I must have missed it. Interesting that 75% =/- of BSA's physical assets are tied up in the Summit. *gulp*

@Jameson76 "There have been other cheating scandals (Learning for Life is the latest" ??? Did I miss something?

@EmberMike brought up an excellent (and debatable) point:

(a) What is the unsustainable membership point? 500,000? Is there logic behind that number?

(b) Before you hit that 'collapse' number is there a 'tipping point' number before that where other weirdness happens?

Can you have a traditional program that is smaller and sustainable? I think so.

(A lot of factors for the decline and it is WAY bigger than scouts. As a co-worker recently reminded me, don't forget child molesting scoutmasters. That stung a little, but can't help our numbers.)

Gender-Blind Scouts of America: G-BSA

3 minutes ago, cocomax said:

Can everyone at least agree that:

When male Scouters are treated differently from female Scouters with regard to YPT, that is unequal. And unfair.

 

 

Bet you can't get everyone to agree on that...

"No genders, just Scouts" program

"Separate but equal, equal but different" scout program

"Real Girl Scouting"

Like some of you I have hired a lot of folks (50, 60 I forget). I would read this as "Not an Eagle". I stick with Life Scout until you have done anything. All things being equal I'd call in a Life Scout just as much as an Eagle...

21 minutes ago, Tgstaffer said:

An issue with Water Balloons is we would have to collect all the scraps afterward(quite tedious after a full day) because of leave no trace

Fair enough. Too bad you can't fling indigenous fish.

Canoe swamping competition. They did that at OA (mostly leaders) and when a boat went down they played the death theme from Hunger Games which was pretty funny.

Is the water shallow? We did a obstacle course camp out and the part that was out in the water was the most entertaining part.

I thought I missed something. Implied is not the same thing as stated.

Once again decline in participation in social organizations is not the same issue as changes in physical products for sale. It is a facile, shallow argument. I see why you use it, it is the language National keeps using but I think they are wrong too. 

@Col. Flagg has a point...if they are rolling the dice on this they really show no signs of that they had an organized plan. 

Catapults and water balloons.

Maybe D-Day theme....ha ha.

9 hours ago, juanfox said:

If you want to waterproof your tent, first you need to ensure whether your tent is leaking or not? If leakage is found then, you can use waterproofing spray on leakages. Silicon spray is considered as the best waterproof spray due to its water-resistant characteristics. It also has a moisturizing property.  Silicone spray waterproofing provides the ideal way of coating fabrics. It helps the rainwater to roll off the material without soaking. Starbrite Silicone Water-Guard is a good spray for silicone waterproofing. And it can be used for tents, outerwear, sleeping bags and more items. It is easy to apply. Or, you can use tent seam sealant to fix leaking seams. Reseal seams using a tape. 

I used this stuff as well and it worked great on a couple 10 year old tents. Had to use a hand pump bottle but it was much cheaper than the smaller spray bottles. Made mistake of spraying the inside floor of little tent's 'bathtub' just to be through and now whenever I am on uneven ground (which is almost every time LOL) I slide all over the place while I am sleeping. I never know which corner of the tent I will wake up in.

Part of the discussion that does not resonate with me is the constant view that Scouts and Scouters as 'customers'; I think that analogy only gets one so far. (I see this flawed approach in many flailing churches as well) Scouting is also, especially among it's most ardent supporters a set of beliefs, ideals, and a lifestyle.  Sure by a lot of PR and buzz maybe you can get a lot of new folks customers through the door but can you keep them? 

I think National keeps drawing so much from the business world that is the only way they sees things and then inadvertently shoots themselves in the foot. GSUSA seems to draw on more non-profit and academic areas for their leadership; they may have THEIR flaws but it is a more impressive group IMHO. 

'

Where specifically in the Scout Oath and Law does it say to treat people equally (I am not arguing for inequality) I am trying to see your logic.

As for YPT all National cares about is what is safest for youth, CYA, and Risk Management (in what ever order you wish). If it hurts scouters feelings is secondary or even tertiary to protection and avoiding lawsuits. I know long time Scouters who balked at taking YPT because it was an affront to their honor yet here we are...

*pokes virtual stick in fire*

February '18  Boys Life arrived at house today. Felt very thin (but very traditional scouty in content) I noticed almost NO advertisers! Is something up? Seemed odd. Just observing...

3 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Well, Bugler is a PoR in everything save Eagle, I think that's right.  Ask him , if he would serve.   Bugling Merit Badge is fairly simple for a brass player.  One more roundel on the sash, eh?

Learning all the calls and making one up seems to be a challenge for a lot of guys. In our Troop about 1 in 4 who try it finish it.

3 minutes ago, cocomax said:

No safe space for the patriarchy at any age!

Apparently the GSUSA matriarchy is exempt.