sst3rd

Proud Eagle, Our Troop has been attending an out of council camp for years. Part of why it's so much better than our own council's camp, are the many special events it has during the week at summer camp. One of the events, is an OA social. All brothers are invited, and there are cookies, ice cream, and bug juice served. This camp attracts many out of council Troops, so many lodges are represented, with much fellowshipping. This adds to the mystique of the OA. An event only OA members can attend. OOOOOoooooo. Ahhhhhhhh. Special. Very Special......... sst3rd

For crying out loud folks, let common sense rule. You may have a dedicated Advancement Committee person who manages and/or upkeeps the dreaded merit badge counselor list(s) (whether it be the Troop's, District's, Council's, or all three). He/she can clearly manage the merit badge application process and can see trends of counselors involved way too much (parents included). The Scoutmaster also has to sign the blue card before the Scout(s) start(s) their merit badge work. He/she can also manage who goes where depending on work load, program, etc.. You folks are really trying to make this merit badge thing more complicated than it really is. sst3rd

To the original thread; Our Pack had a very successful SNFS. We had a current Pack of 5 Cub Scouts (long story, but this is a very dedicated bunch), and added 27 new Cub Scouts. They immediately recruited leaders and had training. The program is good, and getting better. However, it's been a month since the SNFS event, and I can see the new membership starting to trail off. I'm the Scoutmaster of the associated Troop. Both Pack and Troop are sponsored by the same church. Several years ago, I started pushing our COR to get the Pack going forward again. I realized that the Troop really needed a vibrant Pack to provided interested new Boy Scouts. Well, after a couple of years of putting the pieces back together, we get this successful SNFS. How does the leadership reach out again to these Scout families that have apparently fallin by the way side already. Leaders make a phone call to parent(s)? Mail a flyer of some type home? Give up? What is a "proven" method to get these Scouts back to the Pack? I've been directly working with the Pack for many years, and will continue to encourage the Pack's leaders. We try to provide Den Chiefs, but I never send one over, unless the Pack's leadership is trained to use one. How can we get these families back? Thanks to all, sst3rd

Bob, Again, we agree. After the Chapter Election Team explains the election procedure and qualifications, I make sure that all of our Scouts know that they can vote for as many as they want, or a select few, or one, or none. SWScouter, The last requirement for a Scout to qualify to go on an OA election ballot, is "Scoutmaster's Approval." This is where the Scout in your scenario would not "qualify." IMHO......... sst3rd

Bob, The elections ARE easier. As the Scoutmaster explains his responsibilities in "approving" the Scouts that meet all OA joining requirements, the OA Election Committee/Team explains that the Scouts can vote for as many from the list as they want. Before this unlimited voting, a Scout had to THINK about all of the candidates in the election, and vote for just the BEST Scouts up to that limit. Since this rule changed a few years ago, every Scout eligible to be voted on, has been successful. Our Scouts now know that if they can get their name on the OA list and past muster with the ol' Scoutmaster, they're in. It's become a given. sst3rd

Scouters, I agree with Bob that there may be a problem with the "Scoutmaster's Approval" requirement. Our lodge has spent the last year trying to remind the Scoutmasters, just how important this is. Not too long a go, Scouts were limited to how many Scouts they could vote for in an OA election, based on how many Scouts were eligible to be voted on by the Troop (including the Scoutmaster's Approval requirement). I don't have the ratio, but it was very restrictive. Something like; if 1-2 Scouts nominated, Scouts could vote for 1; 3-4 Scouts nominated, Scouts could vote for as many as 2; if 5-6 Scouts nominated, Scouts could vote for as many as 3. Something like that. So, only the best (as the Scouts saw it) of the best were voted into the OA. Less Scouts, but better quality Scouts. They were more dedicated to the Troop AND the OA. This is 30 years of experience speaking here. You can disagree with me all you want, but as Bruce Hornsby said, "that's just the way it is." sst3rd

Eamonn, And I disagree with YOU! Yes, the OA, blah, blah, blah. I'm talking about over and beyond reasonable. I've given to our Council properties for over 35 years. For years, the Council did nothing to upkeep sme of these properties, and if the volunteers didn't get involved, these properties became unusable. Reasonable use of these facilities ought to be free to Council BSA units. If not, then reduced rates. And yes, I paid for the nail too!!!! I also have no problem with non BSA groups using the facilities. Our Troop has gone to another Council's summer camp's (they have 7) for years. So, although we work and support our own Council's properties, we go where the Scouts want to go, because the programs available are outragiously better than our own Council's camp. Fees are higher, but they also pay their Staff more. Every year, most of the Staff is back. Talk about summer camp Spirit!!!! sst3rd

Our reservation (Cub and Boy Scout camps) has spent a lot of money on building a state of the art Cub Camp next to the Boy Scout camp. It has a heated/air conditioned mess hall, administration building, health lodge, and more. The camping areas are each based on a theme of sorts. There's a Jamestown type fort, teepees, log cabins, mongolian type round houses, and platforms for normal Scout base camp type tents. There are heaters in most of these facilities, and I don't want to forget the colonial era ship down at the lake and the new pool built next to the castle. Yes, much money was spent. Some of the big buildings were contracted out, but most of this new Cub Camp was built by, you guessed it, Scouter volunteers. For several years, the OA Ordeals (three a year) focused on building this camp. There were also continuous pleas to work out at camp any weekend you want, and bring the Troop, Pack, or Venture team. So where's the rub, the Boy Scout camp is now in shambles, and Troops and Packs are charged for every facility used on both camps (except for regular Troop tent camping on the Boy Scout side). Everything is used to generate income. It's tough to pay for a the use of a cabin in the winter for training leaders, when I helped build it the past summer. It steams me to no end. Yes, our resevation (Cub and Boy Scout camps) rents out to almost anyone with the money, all year long. sst3rd

Anarchist, Tough situation. Your statement, "several of us want to save what is 'here and working'", says it all. Everyone wants to stay with the current Troop, yet the Troop is physically outgrowing the facilities. You either stop the growth, or split. Your program will continue to suffer, until this is resolved. Another statement caught my eye. "Talk of looking for a new CO created a storm!" If the CO is squeezing you out, a new CO should be understandable. Another thought. How about starting a new Troop at the same CO. You can then have a different meeting night, and different camping trip schedules, thus sharing the same equipment. Of course, the equipment will need to be maintained and organized on a higher level. This could be done. sst3rd

ScoutNut, I've been a Scout leader for over 30 years. I already was aware of ADHD/ADD, and other associated disabilities. I didn't need a book shoved in my face to justify a boy's consistent, mean, and disruptive behavior. Parents also have a habit of not bringing up these disabilities until after a pattern of misbehavior has gotten their Scout in trouble. Then his behavior has to be defended. As I stated before, on or off of medication, a Scout needs to be responsible enough not to disrupt is fellow Scouts and/or the program. When he can't (or won't), he is excused from the meeting, the hike, the camping trip, the fundraiser, the meeting; for the day, week, month, or forever. The Troop and Patrol programs must be the top priority. That's why the guys became Scouts. YIS, sst3rd

It's been a while, but this thread is indeed directly Scouting related. When ADD was starting to pop up as why a Scout was misbehaving and that this Scout should be given lots of slack and otherwise, I felt common sense should prevail. I've told Patrol Leaders, who have had difficult Scouts in their Patrols, that as soon as he starts to disrupt a Patrol activity, maybe give one warning. After that, the PL was to release him to the SPL or an adult leader. Getting the disruptive Scout out of the Scouting activity, sends a powerful message. I have also received several books to read, from parents, about their son's diagnosis, so I (the SM) would understand his outragious behavior. I've always given the books back unread. I simply state to the Scout's parents, that the Scout must behave within an appropriate level (with or without medication), or I would be irresponsible in allowing this Scout to participate and possibly hurt himself and/or others. With a boy run Troop, our youth leaders need clear guidelines to work from. They do not need to sit and argue with the offending Scout about whatever the problem is, thus ruining their Patrol program. Remove the Scout, and let an adult review the situation outside the Patrol activity. YIS sst3rd

It is "hazing" clear and simple. You must accept the lowest common denominator in Scouting, as well as work, church, clubs, recreation, and the like. If someone takes offense to what you have said or done (no matter what it was or its intent), it is wrong (hazing for example). I took a "Diversity Training course years ago at my workplace, and it was simply put as "victim defined." anderson

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts. The SPL and ASPL are Star Scouts. The SPL is a natural leader that all the Scouts like. He participates in several sports, and although yet not a star, works very hard at it. He's 15. The ASPL is 14, and been in the Troop longer. His parents bring that up. He loves Scouts, and his parents made him choose between Scouts and playing sports (they wouldn't let him do both). So, he puts a lot into it. Has a big heart, but lets his vocal attributes sound off a little too much. The younger Scouts like him, but the older Scouts think he hangs with the adults too much. We have a campout this weekend, and I hope to iron this all out with their input. Thanks all, sst3rd

I can't find anything on this in BSA documentation, so I'll refer to you folks. I have an SPL who is excellent, but only a couple of months into his 6 month term. He selected his ASPL, and although things started okay, things have since gone down hill. Both of these Scouts were trained in their positions, but both feel it is a competition. The SPL wants the ASPL to knows whose boss, because the ASPL is always trying to take over leadership whenever possible. I've talked, advised, and even trained some more, but it's still the same. Anyway, the SPL wants to go back to his Patrol and help his friend the new PL. What happens to the ASPL? I have many years of Scouting experience, and it tells me that since the SPL chooses his assistant, the ASPL also goes back to his old Patrol. Then the Troop has a new SPL election, and the new SPL again selects his assistant. Thoughts???? Opinions ???? Has this happened to you ? I would assume the same thing with the PL. If he leaves or is removed early, the APL goes too. sst3rd

Bob, I'm not sure of how CubsRgr8's son's Troop handles their OA procedures, but it sounds like he's already been "called" out. How else would he have been "surprised." Your comment, "but lots of scouts who are nominated never become members," is true, but CubsRgr8's son has been elected and/or called out. Since I've been involved with our Lodge for many years, and have advised the Service Committee in that time, I've only been aware of one situation. It involved a 17 yer old who had driven to camp for his Ordeal. Sometime during the first night, he drove home. He left a note that simply said, "your secrets are safe with me." The Scoutmaster to this day doesn't know what happened. So, if the Scoutmaster uses his "approval" requirement wisely, only the honor Scouts will be nominated for the Troop to vote on. And as far as your example using Kerry and the Presidential election process, it doesn't compare. The OA is not a competition. sst3rd

Our Troop is 39 years old, which means only that we have some traditions but appear to be organized the way of the BSA program. We have an additional challenge however, in that our Pack is being recreated and hasn't had any Webolos graduates, this will be its 5th year. So, the Troop went out to neighboring Packs promoting our excellent program. Several Troops hate this, and I understand why, but we want to grow. So anyway, we have two Blue and Gold banquets to attend this weekend where we are receiving 5 AOL graduating Webolos. Because this is a rare event for us, we're trying to tread carefully. Traditionally in our Troop, the SPL and however many ASPL's he needs, are with the adults and out of the Patrols. They have programs to run, and need to be out in front of the Patrols. Since our newly elected SPL, and his hand picked ASPL, were from the old Venture Patrol, our Venture Patrol is down to three members. We have one regular Patrol that's growing with at-large recruiting, so we're starting a New Scout Patrol with a total of 6 new Scouts and these three older Scouts. These three older Scouts will mentor these younger Scouts, with the old Venture Patrol Leader being the Troop Guide for the New Scout Patrol. He'll run th So, no to the Staff Patrol. All Troop Officers are regular Patrol members. Only SPL and ASPL's are removed from the Patrol. sst3rd

Lisa, Our Pack has been incredibly disorganized for over 5 years, and our Troop has supported them as you have. Their leadership was dictated by one person who drove the Pack into the ground. Our Troop is helping the Pack to reorganized, but we haven't had a Webolos graduate for over 5 years. So, we had to recruit outside of Scouting (friends). We have a great program, and have picked up a Scout here and there. It appears that our Troop's good reputation has gotten out. Even though our Council also trys to match Packs to Troops (particularly the same numbered and sponsored), Pack Webolos leaders are trained and encouraged (in this Council anyway)to visit several Troops to find the best fit for each Webolos Scout. Admittedly as a SM, I would be upset if our Pack graduated into another Troop, but I currently have nothing to worry about. Our Troop is active in the community and have a decent and current website. We currently have 5 Webolos from three different Packs, that have made committments to graduate into our Troop. This is outstanding, and our Scouts are very proud of this. DON'T give up. One Scout at a time. sst3rd

We have been attending the camp in the Council next to ours for 17 years. Blue Ridge Mountains Council camps are Camp Ottari and Camp Powhatan. These camps have more camps built into them. So many choices for programs of all level Scouts. As Scoutmaster, I feel it's my responsibility that each Scout take advantage of those merit badge programs and the camp's first year programs. The Staff is prepared and the programs meet the requirements. The Scouts would continue to come to these camps just for this advancement, however, every morning before breakfast and every evening after supper, these camps offer hikes, skills demonstrations, open all of the shooting ranges, swimming, canoeing, rowing, kayaking, volleyball, fishing, campfire programs, and yes, goofing off at the Trading Post. I make sure our Scouts get out to these events, and also make sure they relax as well. Summer camp is truly the highlight of our Troop's program year, and our Scouts look forward to it every year. It drives our program. sst3rd

If Pack A was running a "good program" until the very end, why did that Den decide to move to a third Pack 10 miles down the road? First problem was the "joint join up" nights. Should have always been separate as each Pack developes its own character. Second problem was giving up going to the Unit Commissioner and then the District. If the situation you describe is anywhere accurate, the Council would have jumped in there. They don't like Packs to fold. It's obvious why Scouts from Pack B were quiting the Troop after a year. You already knew the answer. It's because the Cubs from Pack B were getting an incomplete poorly executed Scout program. They graduated into the Troop, and didn't care to make the commitment to the Troop program because they didn't have to do it at the Cub Scout level. Always sorry to see conflicts like this. It's always the adults that screw things up, and the Scouts suffer the consequences. Hope things have been corrected (training????). sst3rd

It's a challenging position, but just reading about it is one thing, performing it to the best of your abilities is another. Have a long discussion with your Scoutmaster. Review where the Troop is, and where you both would like to see it go. Always get input from your Scouts (young and old), but remember that the Scoutmaster and his Staff, and the Committee, need to be on board in order to support whatever the program the PLC comes up with. The skys the limit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,go fly. sst3rd

Our Troop mainly base camps (car camps I guess). We have Patrol kitchen boxes (chuck boxes). So, we have old stainless steel Patrol mess kits. If complete, they have a large pot, a smaller pot, 4 plastic partitioned plates, small coffee pot, the two tops for the two pots, a small fry pan, a large fry pan, and two slip type handles that go into slots on the two fry pans. These kits are old, but some are as recent as 5 years. They're heavy duty and last. All of this stuff nestles into the big pot, and is topped off by the big fry pan. Works great, and I've seen a lot of Troops use them for their Patrols. Unfortunately, over the years as the Scouts have used and abused these kits, the large fry pans have disappeared. I can't find them anywhere in our storeroom, and the Scouts have no idea where they could be (right.............) Educated guess is that they burned something in the large fry pan so bad, that they didn't want to attempt to clean it, so they threw it away. Sorry for the long note, but I want to buy some of these large fry pans and complete these kits again. The big pot is around 6 quarts, and the circumference of the kit and fry pan is around 12 inches. Admittly, I'm guessing. These appear to be pretty standard around our Council, but no one can give me any ideas on where to find parts for these kits. All we need is 6 of these large fry pans, and we'd be back in business. Any ideas or sources? Thanks, sst3rd

I tried to stay away from this one, but could no longer. The Troop I work with now, was the same Troop my brother and I grew up in. Our Troop did NOT attend summer camp when we were Scouts. Don't know really why, but hey, I was just a Scout. When I became an adult leader many years ago, I was aware of "summer camp ", but our Council's camp had a horrible reputation. 1) WW II era pre-fab buildings for structures, 2) Staff got lousy pay and turnover was almost 100% each year, thus no STAFF SPIRIT, 3) programs disorganized and lacked supplies, etc., etc.. Sixteen (16) years ago I was invited by a fellow Scouter to attend their summer camp with his Troop. They attended an adjoining Council's camp. In short, it was outstanding. Staff, property, equipment, supplies, food service, programs, were all OUTSTANDING. The next year, my Troop attended a different camp in this same neighboring Council. Again, an outstanding experience for Scouts and Scouters. They have several camps and many programs. With so many choices, we've been attending there ever since. Yes, I tend to be bias, and although our home Council's camp has improved, it still can't come close. I've worked out at our camps for years, and our OA members do many great things out there as well. It just can't measure up. Since we have Troop camping trips, Camporees, training, OA, and service projects out at our camp, I'd rather our Troop go to summer camp elsewhere. And we do. So, although I support our local Council's camp, I'm still ridiculed for NOT attending it. It's not a problem for me, the Scouts get a much better program out-of-Council. sst3rd

As I'm always here, but rarely ever respond anymore (too many feathers flying), a Merry Christmas to everyone. sst3rd

I'm against any type of BOR or mock BOR for Webolos II. At the Scoutmaster Conference when a boy joins, I let him know that as he starts his trail to Eagle, when he is ready for his first rank, he will always have a chat with the SM. This Scoutmaster's Conference will then be followed by a Board of Review. It is clearly explained that the BOR's are not walls to stop his advancement, but a group of supportive adult leaders to review and encourage a Scout to move forward in his Scouting future. Our BOR's also ask the Scout if he has any questions of the BOR. sst3rd

At the camp we go to, one of the really fun moments is when the camp Staff presents the "Order of the Oar." When there is a Scout's birthday, at one of the meals the "Order of the Oar" presents a very special ceremony. They're dressed in "fun in the sun" duds, but act similar to an old fashioned OA Tap-Out team. They politely grab the Scout, bring him forward in front of the mess hall audience, ask how old he is and congradulate him. They them take a very large decorated oar, and proceed to "spank" him for every year of his age. Of course they don't really touch him. The stroke falls short. But as it appears that contact is made, a member of the Order, smacks two pieces of wood together. It's all in great fun! So, Thursday was one of our Scout's birthday, and he very nicely asked me not to get him involved with the Order of the Oar. I agreed, but when dinner came, here they come in the door of the mess hall. My Scout looks at me, and I shake my head. The Order comes to our side of the mess. My Scout glares at me, and I again shake my head. The Order comes to our table, and our Scout starts to get a bit pale, as I look away. The Order came right down the isle of our Troop, right past our Scout, and grabs a Scout from an adjoining Troop. Relief was on the face of our Scout, but I also saw a bit of regret. It would have been fun. We had a quiet birthday celebration at our campsite that night, but I still remember the look on his face when those guys came in the mess........... sst3rd