SR540Beaver

fgoodwin, It sounds like you might be using a list server for your troop e-mail. Our troop does this. Instead of having to maintain a personal list in our own personal e-mail software, we use a list server where our webmaster maintains a variety or e-mail lists for us and keeps them current. If you want to e-mail the Goober Patrol, you would type in the e-mail address of gooberpatrol@troopxxx.net in your e-mail. We have lists for the patrols, the whole troop, the adult leaders, senior leadership, etc. I do know we have had a problem with the list server having limits to how much mail it can or will send out in a given time period. It was discussed at a committee meeting to limit our use to necessary e-mail for troop communications. We didn't want to be in a position where there was something urgent to send out and we couldn't because someone used it multiple times to send out puppy pictures, jokes and cartoons. My disclaimer is that I could be all wet on this and AntelopeDud could tell you much better than I could since he is our CC. It could be that your SM is the keeper of e-mail lists and such in your troop and that is why he wants things to funnel thru him first so he can police it.

Calico, What a wonderful story! I do want to point out one other thing about the fellow in my patrol. While I worked with him to pare down his tickets into something manageable that he could succeed at, I did encourage him to use those as stepping stones to complete his original goals since they were so worthy. I hope he does. I must say, his ticket was the most thourough and thought out ticket of my whole patrol. They were just too broad and massive in scope as originally written.

OGE, I think the difference has more to do with the Religious Relationship committee of the BSA. If some standard isn't set, then every Tom, Dick and Harry who goes off and starts his own religion or church (Such as a Fred Phelps) could get representation in the committee. A committee of hundreds would be a little messy. In most areas of life or business, it is not unusual for the "major" players to have a seat at the table while the minor players do not. Now, that is purely my uneducated opinion and I'm not saying I think it is right. Just thinking logically though, inclusion of large groups of fairly like minded organizations makes sense more than having 10 or 15 "religious" group of 10 or 12 people each that are not associated with each other in any meaningful way. Same with the religious emblem I guess. We have to keep in mind that PRAY is kind of the clearing house of religious emblems aside from the recognition the BSA gives the emblems. I imagine there is also a business consideration here. The Southern Baptist's have something like 13 million members. They share one of the emblems with several other denominations. It makes more sense to market a program with customers in the millions rahter than the tens or hundreds. Again, I don't mean any of my comments to be taken as a judgement or even an informed opinion. Just thoughts off the top of my head.

It seems that when the word diversity comes up in Scouting, it is taken to mean race. Diversity was really heavily promoted at the WB course I staffed this past fall. Diversity is kind of like porn. It is hard to describe, but you know it when you see it. I think that for the purpose of scouting, diversity is anything different from the "norm" or majority". Certainly, sex, race and religion are possible sources of diversity. Age, culture, economic and handicap could be other sources. I do know that we TG's tried to counsel the WB participants to NOT just think of their diversity ticket strictly in relation to race. It was fine to do a ticket based on race, just don't limit yourself to that. Scouting is not going to be chosen by every boy out there snd there is no way to make scouting all things to all people. I had an African-American gentleman in the patrol I was TG for. Just about every single ticket of his involved diversity. Not just race, but culture and religion too. This man had a musical background. It bothered him that the WB songbook only contained songs from an Anglo-Saxon perspective. He knew a lot of African folk songs and wanted to try to get those integrated into the WB songbook. I led him away from that as a ticket item because there were too many things out of his control in making it happen. He then wanted to approach it at a council level and attend roundtables and make himself available to troops to teach these songs. Again, too many things out of his control. I believe we finally settled on him helping teach Songs at the annual Pow Wow where he could introduce his folk songs. Even if he were able to have the WB songbook updated with African folk songs in an attempt to make scouting more diverse and reach a larger crowd, how many of the white middle-class folks who make up scouting would embrace singing a song in Swahili instead of The Quartermaster Store song?

LongHaul, The guy in question was FOG (Fat Old Guy). He also had about 5 or 6 other names he used, sometimes responding to his own posts. He tried to hide his IP address by posting from his office and then going around the corner to the local library and signing on from there. There is a former poster that was a particular target of FOG. He figured out the former poster's real name and even registered an account here under that person's name. The poor guy had some real issues and Terry finally had to boot him. ADC, I don't intend to speak for Terry, but if you'll notice, he has very few posts here. He runs a business and evidently stays pretty busy, so you might not hear back from him soon. I believe he started this forum out of a love of scouting. If memory serves, he opened the issues and politics forum due to repeated requests from the folks who post here. Most posting pertains to scouting and program. Much of what you see in I&P relates to scouting too. No one is forced to go into that forum, read the threads or post. Beavah, My intent was not to justify the tone here by pointing out worse behavior elsewhere. It was merely to point out that it is a matter of perspective. What you find "bad" here, others like me who have participated in other forums on the internet finds to be a breath of fresh air. While tempers and tone may flair on occasion, many of us find Scouter to be a safe harbor in the internet storm.

I circumvented a bad meal plan for our new scouts on our last campout. It was the first campout for our new scout patrol. There were 11 new scouts and 4 troop guides. We have one troop guide who is rather ambitious and needs to be reigned in on occasion. I was occupied with other things while menu planning was going on. This TG asked them what they thought about pizza. Of course 11 boys aged 10 and 11 were thrilled with the idea. Our troop has 12 dutch ovens shared between the adults and patrols. These are 12 inch dutch ovens. You might be lucky if a boy found half of a 12 inch pizza filling. If each boy only had half a pizza, they needed 8 dutch ovens for 15 scouts. They were also planning to make dutch oven cobbler which would have taken up another couple ovens. Normally, we would make sure they had peanut butter in their patrol box and let them learn the hard way about planning and preparation. Since this was the first campout of the new scout patrol, I called the TG's up and told them to make alternate simple plans for dinner. While it would have been a memorable experience, Mr. Beaver didn't want half the new scouts to NOT show up for the next campout or get calls from parents asking why their new scout went hungry on the campout. We'll get to that when they have a few months and campouts under their belts.

Knowledge is a wonderful thing. What people do with knowledge is totally dependent on the individual. I've said it before and I'll say it again....you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Take two kids OR adults, give them the same training, give them the same test and put them in the same situation. 99.9% of the time, you'll get different results. Most lost people do not believe they are lost. Heck, I walked out of camp one minute ago. Camp is just one minute back this way. Hmmm, I must have missed a turn. It has to be just past that stand of trees. Maybe over that rise. What the heck, all I did was walk a few hundred feet away. I know camp is right around here. Some will stay put, others will continue to not accept they are "lost" even though they "know" what to do. You do what you "know" to do when you are LOST. I'm not lost....camp is right over there. While we all teach boys what to do and test there knowledge, how many of us enforce carrying survival gear at all times on an outing? Do your boys have a whistle? Do they have the means to build a fire? Do they have a metal cup to boil water? Do they have a knife? If they do actually have all of that stuff on their car camping trip, is it on them or in their daypack back in camp? The best thing for anyone to understand is to recognize that they are indeed lost and to STOP. Human nature seems to make them continue on to be found. Changing human nature is often a difficult thing to do.

I've been around these forums for a while and I've seen a few stinkers come and go. I'm only aware of one abusive poster with multiple personalities who was asked to leave by Terry. Heck, I remember back when we didn't have mods. I don't get the recent complaints and the repeated request for mod changes. These guys are volunteers who do a good job and treat everyone like adults. There is an ignore feature that can be used if someone gets under your skin. It works well, I've used it on occasion. No one is forced to come here and participate. No one is forced to post or respond. While there are times that I get annoyed with some posters and wish the mods would have a talk with them, I really, really would ask that this position be thought out in depth and resisted. Over the years I have participated in many forums. Some were forums like Sean Hannity's political forum. Scouter.com is nursery school compared to the treatment you'll get elsewhere. I come here BECAUSE of the civil tone. I have left those forums because of the juvenile tone. The last thing we need here is what those other places have with the forum police (mods) who give people time outs and ban them. That should only happen in extreme cases.....and as I said, I've only seen that here once. Use the ignore feature and be happy folks. Mods, good job!

Beavah, If you'll go back and read my post again, you won't see any mention of boys receiving sign-offs at the campout where they received active hands-on instruction from the TG's. I can assure you that each one of their books are still as blank as when they bought it a few weeks ago. FCFY is a program, nothing more, nothing less. Think of it kind of like when the boys do their annual planning. They decide where they want to go each month and what they want to do on the outing. They have a road map for their journey. FCFY is a roadmap. The troop provides the program and if the boy will come, participate and demonstrate his knowledge and skill, he will advance individually. If he doesn't come and can't show any skill, he doesn't advance. Some program elements like the 5 mile hike have to be organized and scheduled. We can't do an individual 5 mile hike for each scout when he wants to do it. If he fails to show up for it, he does not get signed off and it may be months before we do it again and he won't advance. FCFY does not mean holding a lecture and then lining the boys up for a check mark in their book on their way to a 13 year old Eagle. Perhaps some untrained folks do that and call it FCFY, but I don't know of any and would have to believe they are few and far between. At least they are in this neck of the woods.

"One is very much like SR540's more heavily "adult influenced" program, one is more like bs1964's more fluid program." Pardon me Beavah, but I don't know how you got "adult heavily influenced" out of my comments of, "NSP's and FCFY led by TG's and supervised by ASM's allows us ensure the quantity and quality of the skill instruction and experience the new scouts obtain. They are still part of the troop and get to know and interact with the older boys in the standing multi-age patrols they will cross into in less than a year. They are at the same meetings, campouts, campfires, service projects and COH's. We supplement the training they recieve from the TG's with additional older boys in the troop." Every unit program whether or not it is boy-led is "supervised" by adults. As I said, our TG's lead and train the NSP's and are supplemented by additional older boys in the troop. Because of the large number of new boys we get, we function "somewhat" as a troop within a troop. The TG's do separate skill instruction during meetings because a new boy needs to know how to set up a stove and a tent where the older scouts have been doing that for years. We go on the same campout, but we may have a totally seperate program from the older boys so we can work on skills, advancement requirements and skill and age appropriate activities. A for instance is Camporee a couple of weeks ago. We had 11 of our 12 new scouts go. The majority of these boys had only attended the troop meeting prior to the campout. Two boys actually brought their registration forms to the church parking lot before we left for the campout. I guess I heavily adult influenced what we did, because the new boys were not permitted to participate in the patrol competitions. It seemed to make sense since they had learned zero skills so far as Boy Scouts. Instead, they spent the day in camp learning how to set up tents, lanterns and stoves. They learded what was in the patrol box and how to pack it for travel. They learned how to raise, lower and display the American flag. They also got in the axe yard and began learning and earning their Totin' Chit and also began work on the Firem'n Chit. We adults watched the TG's do all of this skill instruction from halfway across camp in our lawn chairs. They had a lot thrown at them, so they spent the afternoon taking a 1.5 hour hike down to the falls on the creek that runs thru camp. They came back and demonstrated their knowledge for the ASM's. I guess you could say they did this in lockstep together....although we will probably get another 10 or 12 new scouts in the next 6 to 8 weeks and have to do it all over again while continuing to move forward with the boys who are already here. I will say, if the boy can't demonstrate his knowledge or skill, he won't be signed off. Sitting thru a skill instruction and demonstrating a skill are two different things. Back to the troop within a troop comment. Much like a PLC, our TG's are tasked with determining what will be taught and which one will teach it or finding someone who can teach. They don't come to meetings and fly by the seat of their pants. They are charged with leadership and having a plan. And yes, they do it under the "supervision" of the ASM's for NSP's. The one constant whether it be a whole troop or NSP's using a FCFY program is the adults. The TG's will spend a term being a TG. Hopefully they will enjoy the job and want to stay. More likely they will want to be an ASPL, SPL or go back to being a PL. My ongoing responsibility along with my other ASM's is to make sure that the new set of TG's are prepared to lead the next year's crop of new scouts. Just like an SM with new senior leadership. The adults in our troop never do a job that can be done by a boy.

Last year we had 24 new scouts. This year we are currently at 12 with 5 to cross over at month end, possibly 8. We have additional boys who have implied intent to crossover between now and May. We utilize NSP's and FCFY. We have 5 ASM's for new scouts of which I am the lead ASM. We also have 4 Troop Guides are 14 to 15 and are Star or Life. NSP's and FCFY led by TG's and supervised by ASM's allows us ensure the quantity and quality of the skill instruction and experience the new scouts obtain. They are still part of the troop and get to know and interact with the older boys in the standing multi-age patrols they will cross into in less than a year. They are at the same meetings, campouts, campfires, service projects and COH's. We supplement the training they recieve from the TG's with additional older boys in the troop. We could integrate them into regular patrols at the outset and hope that they are taught what we expect by their patrol members. But we have found that having them in NSP's and having an organized FCFY program keeps them engaged, gives them a comfort level with their peers while getting to know the older boys, lets us take their pulse better and keep them in scouting on a longer term. Last year we had every new scout attend summer camp and that will be our goal this year. It is my belief that boys who cross over around the February timeframe, go to summer camp and get close to First Class by their first year are more apt to stay in scouting longer than those who do not. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The skills a boy learns to survive in the outdoors is as dependent on him as it is those teaching him. As long as they are able to demonstrate a requirement to the satisfaction of their leader, they can get signed off for advancment. FCFY makes no difference in that aspect of what a boy retains.

Count me as another thankful Scouter that this young man has been found alive!!! Put me out of my misery please.......I confess to being one of those dreaded ASM's who utilizes NSP's and FCFY. I promise that we only subject the boys to it as short of a time period as possible before they move to standing mixed age patrols. Some of them develop a slight head or eye twitch, but they don't appear to be to worse for the wear.

Not to hijack the thread, but how many folks out there have both a Spring and Fall Camporee? Within our council and district, we have Webelos Woods, summer camp and Camporee. Out of 12 months, that is a quarter of your program being dicatated by someone other than the boys.....if they elect to paticipate. There have been years where our boys have chosen to do something they want rather than go to camporee. I guess holding two can be viewed as a good or bad thing. Bad if you feel obligated because it does not allow your boys to do their own planning and good in that you could participate in one, but not both. To answer your question. When a district waits that long to plan and gives short notice, they had better be prepared to accept what attendance they can get. The boys set their calendar of events within the boundaries of what the adults can support. If they have a cave trip planned and still want to do it, let them. That was their plan. If camporee sounds better to them, allow them to change their plans. Just don't let the poor planning of the district dictate your boy's program.

"Along these lines, how do you handle scouts saying, "frick" or "frickin?"" For me, it is just a substitute for the F word, so I tend to treat it the same. Of course, heck and darn are substitutes for inappropriate words too, but are so commonplace that we don't bat an eye.

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-556.html The Professional in Scouting The Boy Scouts of America provides a program for young people that builds desirable qualities of character, trains in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and develops their personal fitness. Scouting serves more than 4 million young men and women in every part of the country through more than 300 local council service centers. Nearly 4,000 professional Scouters lead, guide, and train more than a million volunteers. Scouting is a volunteer organization. The professional staff has the responsibility for working with volunteer committees and community leaders to recruit, train, guide, and inspire them to become involved in the program of Scouting. RESPONSIBILITIES The professional Scouter in an entry-level position is assigned to a district or service area within a local council. The job responsibilities are broad and varied. Duties include promoting, supervising, and working in the district or service area through volunteers. Different aspects of the professional Scouter's job include: Sales. The professional Scouter is responsible, through volunteers, for extending Scouting to religious, civic, fraternal, educational, or other community-based organizations. Service. Major emphasis is placed on service. The professional staff ensures that all Scouting units are served through volunteer commissioners, regular roundtable meetings, training events, and activities. Finance. The professional Scouter has responsibility for securing adequate financial support for Scouting in the assigned area. Working with volunteers, professionals recruit leadership for the Friends of Scouting and finance campaign efforts to meet the financial needs of the council. Administration. The professional Scouter administers the Scouting program in the assigned district or service area. Public Relations. Professional Scouters must recognize the importance of good working relationships with other professionals and with volunteers. Scouting depends on community support and acceptance. Professional leaders must have good communication skills and be able to tell Scouting's story to the public.

I more or less agree with what LongHaul and Eamonn said. In a troop I formerly served, they took boy led a step or two too far. The SM was on active duty overseas and since no one in the troop would step up, they asked a father on a new crossover to be acting SM in his absence. I know this fellow well and he is a fine guy. He was the district trainer and an Eagle Scout. Cut him and he bleeds BSA. They had a situation where a "tinkerer" in the troop had converted old Coleman liquid fuel stoves over to propane. One caught fire and was in danger of exploding. they were basically a hunk of junk and dangerous. The SM went into town during the campout and purchased a new stove. The committee just about had a coniption over it because they were a "boy-led" troop and the boys were not consulted about the expenditure. They went so far as to accuse the SM of theft for spending money without approval. Now, I know that the real problem here was the adults and not the boys. It wasn't the boys demanding to be consulted. But the principle here is that boy led means certain things and not certain things. While their concerns and feelings about a new SM should certainly be taken into account, a "vote" is probably over the bounds. Choosing a person based on popularity makes for a bad leader in most cases.

I more or less agree with what LongHaul and Eamonn said. In a troop I formerly served, they took boy led a step or two too far. The SM was on active duty overseas and since no one in the troop would step up, they asked a father on a new crossover to be acting SM in his absence. I know this fellow well and he is a fine guy. He was the district trainer and an Eagle Scout. Cut him and he bleeds BSA. They had a situation where a "tinkerer" in the troop had converted old Coleman liquid fuel stoves over to propane. One caught fire and was in danger of exploding. they were basically a hunk of junk and dangerous. The SM went into town during the campout and purchased a new stove. The committee just about had a coniption over it because they were a "boy-led" troop and the boys were not consulted about the expenditure. They went so far as to accuse the SM of theft for spending money without approval. Now, I know that the real problem here was the adults and not the boys. It wasn't the boys demanding to be consulted. But the principle here is that boy led means certain things and not certain things. While their concerns and feelings about a new SM should certainly be taken into account, a "vote" is probably over the bounds. Choosing a person based on popularity makes for a bad leader in most cases.

In whatever venue a schism occurs, I always prefer to be on the "us" side rather than the "them" side. "Them" are always the bad guys. My mom always taught me empathy, to realize that there are two sides to every story and to weigh a case based on it's merits. I try to never be quick to judge and try to put myself in the other guys shoes and see things from his perspective. Boy, this would fit into the old prank thread nicely. My dealings with scout pros has always been favorable, but that is probably because I tend to believe we are all involved in scouting for much the same reason, regardless of whether we are getting paid or not. Being a scouting pro is like any other job in that most people not doing it have no concept of what is involved in it on a day to day basis. Do they seem to be obsessed with raising funds? Well, yes. When you have units that will not sell popcorn, participate in FOS and get their coworkers to designate United Way donations to a unit over the council, they have to obsess over it. Is it to keep a job? Sure. Is it to keep the council functioning so you can deliver scouting to the youth in the community. You bet. For some reason, the folks who whine about council and theirdesire for money seems to think the council has a large money tree out behind the office. Guess what.....just like your parents told you when you were a kid, there are no money trees. I appreciate what "them" does so "us" has a council that can continue providing scouting.

Ed, That is what Webelos Woods is for. Camporee is supposed to be a competition. In the district I used to be in, Webelos were a standard feature at Camporee and we Webelos folks loved getting to camp with a prospective troop. The problem fro mthe BS side was that they often incorporated the Webelos into the patrols and they participated in the competitions. This was bad for any patrol who had really practiced and had any hopes of winning anything. Camporee is for Boy Scouts. Webelos Woods is the acceptable recruitment venue.

I suppose you could get a good lawyer to game the system for your troop, but that would probably be sending the wrong signal to the boys. Lets review de4bsa's research: Quoted from the National office of the Boy Scouts of America: It has been the long-standing position of the IRS and the BSA that units such as packs, troops, teams, posts, and crews are NOT covered by the BSAs group exemption, and that the BSAs tax exempt status under IRC Sec. 501(3) does NOT extend to units. Units are not, in themselves, legal entities. They are chartered to partner organizations of the BSA such as churches, PTAs and civic groups. Since a unit is owned by its chartering organization, each unit takes its tax status from that organization. Units are NOT subordinate organizations of the Boy Scouts of America. Even if a unit is considered tax exempt, it is still prohibited from soliciting gifts or grants for unit support. As stated in the BSA Charter and Bylaws Article XI, Sec. 1, Clause 2: Contributions shall be solicited in the name of the Boy Scouts of America only through or by the authority of the Corporation, and shall be limited to the National Council or chartered local councils Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for chartered organization units, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult members and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now, let's review the Admission Guidelines for my local agency. And yes, I know that each United Way is local and selects their own partner agencies. I would however believe that they all follow a fairly standard procedure for who can be an agency.....and individual units do not fit the picture. Their CO MIGHT, but not the unit. Policy The purpose of the Agency Admissions Guidelines policy is to establish guidelines and criteria by which agencies can apply to become a partner agency with United Way of Central Oklahoma (United Way). Applications will be accepted throughout the year. Those submitted prior to February 1, will be reviewed for possible inclusion in the spring allocation process, for funding to begin July 1 of that same year. Award notifications are made in late June of the application year. Agency admissions decisions are made at the sole discretion of the United Way Board of Directors. The Board of Directors receives recommendations for new agency membership from the New Agencies and New/Expanded Programs Subcommittee. Agencies are considered partner agencies with United Way immediately upon Board approval in June of the application year and are required to sign and adhere to the Relationship Agreement between the agency and United Way (copy attached). Criteria Any organization wanting to become a partner agency with United Way should meet the following minimum criteria: Render valid human service programs which meet a genuine community need. Be a non-profit tax-exempt corporation as defined under Section 501 © (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Be established and functional for a preferred minimum of two years. Meet the ongoing criteria for membership in the United Way of Central Oklahoma as set forth in the Policy and Procedures Manual. Have an annual audit performed by a qualified and independent auditor. Meet the criteria, as defined therein, for admission into the Combined Federal Campaign and the Oklahoma State Employee Campaign. Procedures Any organization wanting to become a partner agency of United Way should first contact the United Way office and speak to the Vice-President of Community Investment, Ed Pulido. Upon approval of the Vice-President of Community Investment the agency must submit a letter of application for membership to the New Agencies and New/Expanded Programs Subcommittee. The letter of application should state that the agency has reviewed the Relationship Agreement between the agency and United Way and would, as a partner agency, agree with the conditions set forth in that Agreement. Along with this letter, the application package must contain the following information: The completed application form. The completed outcome measurment forms demonstrating current methods of collection and evaluation. Click here for instructions on completing the forms. A copy of the IRS Determination Letter certifying the agency as a non-profit corporation, tax-exempt under Section 501 © (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. A copy of the organizations By-Laws. A list of local Officers and Directors. This list should include length of service, board attendance record, address, telephone number and the place of employment. The agencys current fiscal year budget. A copy of the most recent annual audit by a qualified and independent auditor. A copy of the most recent Annual Report to the agencys Board of Directors. A copy of the current IRS Form 990. A copy of the agencys nondiscrimination policy. A copy of the agencys proof of insurance. Do not staple any materials in the application. All submissions must be loose leaf and free of staples or binding. This includes audits. Paper clips are acceptable. All applications and supporting documents must be submitted on 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper. Annual reports may be submitted in their original printed format. Two complete copies of the entire application package and supporting documentation must be submitted. Complete packages will be forwarded to the New Agencies and New/Expanded Programs Committee which will then meet with selected agencies for further review and consideration. The New Agencies and New/Expanded Programs Subcommittee formulates its recommendation considering the agencys demonstrated ability to receive and provide benefit through a partnership agreement with United Way. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The bottom line is this. I doubt that the SM did anything like what is listed above to get his troop listed as a partner agency in the United Way. What he did instead was have his co-workers "write in" his troop when the volunteer rep was there doing a presentation. His troop was not qualified to recieve a dime from UW and the UW should have told him so. Instead, the SE and DE got to do the dirty work and be made out to be the bad guys and now have a bunch of misinformed scouters, boys and parents thinking the mean old council folks hate scouting units and took the baby's milk away. The troop was not an agency of the UW and the SM had no right asking people to designate their gifts thru UW to his unit. He could have asked them directly. Like I said before, it appears he saw an easy way to make a quick buck without lifting a finger and took it. That isn't really the definition of "thrifty".

I took the time to go out to the United Way's website and was going to do a bunch of cutting and pasting, but why should I do everyon's heavy lifting for them. Besides the post would have been a mile long and no one would read it. You can Google it yourself if you are so inclined and disprove what I'll paraphrase here. I looked up approved agencies, allocations and designated gifts. In a nutshell, each local UW has a board of volunteers who approve the agencies who are elligible to receive funds. If you are going to designate a gift, it has to be to an approved agency (BSA Council) and not a subset (BSA unit). The UW sends volunteers to audit each agency on an annual basis to determine need, how the dollars are being spent and future allocations. A troop would never fit into this picture. Like scouting, UW is mainly operated by volunteers. The people who come to your business to do presentations are volunteers. Just like scouting volunteers who sometimes get it wrong or listen to the myths, they evidently let this one SM convince them and his coworkers that it was legit to designate funds to a troop. That is why the council was unhappy. The allocation for the council would be reduced by the amount the SM's troop was going to get since "Boy Scouts" was allocated X number of dollars thru UW giving. The UW and the council figured it out and it was unfortunately the SE and DE who got the task of correcting the issue and ruffling feathers and hurting the relationship. They were fixing a problem that the SM created and they catch the grief instead. Wouldn't the better lesson for the SM to model to his boys be to go out and work to raise the funds instead of solicit direct donations? Especially donations that normally go thru a charitable organization who allocates money to a variety of charities in the community. He was looking for bigger bucks with a minimum of effort. Not very scoutlike.

nldscout: "This unit did nothing wrong, people can donate to a troop anytime they want. If you say they can't show me where it says that?" Yes, people can donate their money any way they see fit. But why didn't this scouter solicit donations for his troop directly from his co-workers instead of getting them to designate their UW giving to a particular subset of an entity? What he did, he did for the good of his troop rather than the good of scouting. While that is commenable on one hand, it is selfish on the other. He is not teaching his boys to be thrifty. A scout pays his own way. That doesn't mean getting other people to hand you money. If they do, great....but they also need to learn how to work for it, save and spend wisely. I think that exclusively soliciting funds for your troop to the exclusion of having boys work to raise funds is a disservice to the boys and potentially dangerous to the council's ability to provide for all units under their umbrella.

resqman, I am the lead ASM for new scouts in our troop. We have 3 additional ASM's for new scouts and 4 Troop Guides. Last year we had 24 new scouts split into 2 patrols. As of now, we have 11 new scouts and will probably have at least that many crossover between now and sometime in May. I commend you for preparing your Cubs for the outdoors and Boy Scouting. Not to offend you, but I do believe you were being a little over ambitious to expect your son to walk in onthe first night and lead the other new scouts in choosing a patrol name. We regularly get boys from at least 4 different packs, so we get boys with different levels of ability not only as individuals, but based on the pack they came from. We also get some boys who never were in Cubs. While there are boys who have "been there, done that" and walk thru the door gung ho and ready to go, there are boys who do not. Plus, we get them from February thru May. Heck, last year we had a couple who came to us in September and October and had to be integrated in with guys who had been in the NSP since February. While we try to deal with each boy as an individual and appreciate his uniqueness among the patrol, we basically start with a clean slate rather than fast track anyone. The first few meetings will involve learning about how patrols function and also how the troop functions. Is it all lecture? No. We also start on skill instructions and have a game time that incorporates the skill. These are designed to work towards fulfilling rank requirements. The meetings are also to prepare them for their first campout with the troop. The vast majority of instruction comes from the TG's assigned to the NSP(s). At this stage of the new scout's career, he is a student and not a leader. That will come with tenure and experience. Our troop has certain criteria for each position that is based on activity, rank and experience. You cannot be a PL without having served as an APL. You cannot run for SPL without having been an ASPL and you can't be an ASPL without having been a PL. For the NSP's their leadership are TG's who will lead by example and involve them in learning the functions of patrol leadership as the year progresses. Sometimes I think troops do a disservice by selling scout with a little too much sizzle. They promote high adventure, shooting, etc. True, they can do those things.....later. Most summer camps do not allow boys to shoot until 14, some at 13. Philmont has age requirements. A boy at 10.5 can't do those things yet. At the troop level, some of those things are more possible to do than at the council or national level though. You might be able to take a 12 year old on a week long 30 mile backpacking trip where he can't do Philmont. Well, I've started rambling now. Bottom line is that a troop usually has to take a group of new scouts and present the program to them on equal terms because they don't yet know where that boy is in his maturity, knowledge and experience.

Taking up the way off topic gauntlet. It must be because of the readily available "corn" oil, but around here it is generally accepted that God intended fish to be coated in cornmeal and deep fried. Say, it is time for lunch isn't it? Of course, they should be served with deep fried cornmeal hush puppies. Yeah, yeah, it might kill us.....but we'll die with a big old smile on our face.

To further hijack the thread.....clam chowder is known as snot stew by us landlubbers. We don't eat anything that smells like a bait shop. Now a good corn chowder....yum!