SR540Beaver

I was a Cub Scout back in the 60's. I really didn't have an interest in Boy Scouts and dropped when it was time to crossover. Fast forward a few decades and my son joined Cubs as a Webelos where I dropped out and has been a Boy Scout since February 2004. I'm an ASM in his troop. Other than our twice annual family vacations camping in an old canvas tent and cooking on a Coleman stove at the lake and running trot lines several times a day, I didn't have that many outdoor skills or Scouting experience. Besides, my parents did the work and us kids swam and played. Once I bought into this whole Scouter thing, I embraced it fully. I've taken every training (good or bad) that is available and even participated as training staff for things like IOLS and WB. I rarely miss an outing and have camped from one extreme to the other tempature-wise and from state parks with hot showers and flush toilets to primitive camping under the stars. I've run the new scout program in our troop where we work on taking them from Tenderfoot to First Class. Was there a learning curve? Sure. Did I learn it? Yeah. Can you tell a difference between me and the adults in the troop who were Scouts? Not really. Are there some adults unwilling to put forth any effort at learning outdoor skills and view Scouting as a hobby? Sure. They usually have those really small troops that are struggling to survive that go on campouts and just hang out poking sticks in the fire. I look at Scouting much the same way I do my church experience. I'm an evangelical Christian. We don't just go out looking for people that came from a family with a Christian background and recruit them into our church. We reach out to anyone and everyone and teach them what being a Christian is about and how to live their lives accordingly. I'm thankful for those oldtimers who have been around scouting forever, but I'm also thankful for the newcomers who embrace it with enthusiasm. There are both oldtimers and newcomers who "get it" and both who don't.

My second guess is that it won't attract kids who don't wear the uniform (which is the stated goal) and it won't look good except on folks built like olympic athletes.

It looks like the Baltimore Area Council will be piloting an alternative field uniform concept developed by Baltimore based Under Armour. My guess is that it would be based on UA's tactical gear. Specifically their Covert Ops shirt with two chest pockets and their Gen II pants with seven pockets. http://www.scoutingnews.org/2009/07/31/baltimore-area-council-to-pilot-alternative-bsa-under-armour-field-uniform/ http://www.baltimorebsa.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?orgkey=2271&itemkey=1385 http://www.underarmour.com/shop/mens/tactical

The Zephyr 3 to sleep two adults and the Mystique 2 to sleep two boys.

Both our troop and crew own Alps backpacking tents for their trips to Philmont, Northern Tier and other high adventure trips and have been very pleased with them.

And yet, the patrol method is still strong, alive and well in many troops while not in others........as it has always been.

I for one love the new uniform. It is much more comfortable, fashionable and functional that the previous uniform.......and I like the bellowed pockets as you can actually put something in them.

Kudu, It wasn't a personal attack, it was a factual statement. You are arrogant to believe that YOU are THE national expert. You might recognize yourself as such, but it is arrogant to assume everyone else does too. I am WB trained as are 11 other adults in the troop I serve. I and 6 of those folks have staffed WB. Our last 2 SPL's have both staffed NYLT the past 2 years. We are proud advocates of the boy led patrol method. Hard to believe, but it happens.

"I do happen to be THE NATIONAL EXPERT on the Patrol Method....." When did they add "A Scout is Arrogant" to the law?

Kudu, give it a rest. Leadership and skills can indeed be taught as separate courses that compliment each other. It is foolish to hang the end all and be all of the patrol method on the actualy number of feet separating patrols on a campout. If that is you actual measuring stick of success, you are missing the goal by a country mile. Your hatred of the current BSA program and WB are legendary here, but getting quite old. You don't have to repeat it in every post as we are all fully aware of your feelings.

My son crossed over in February 2004 along with 4 or 5 other boys from his Webelos Den. Today at 16.5 and a Life Scout on the cusp of Eagle, he is the only one left in scouting.

I first saw this done at one of our troop campfires. I took a copy of it and we did this skit for the WB participants when the staff demonstrates a campfire program during the first weekend. It was me and my 2 AQM's and the Scribe and Assistant Scribe. Rain was threatening, so the campfire had been moved to an alternate location that has a high cathedral ceiling and giant flaps that open up to the outside. Part of what made this fun was while the participants were inside, we stood outside the flaps in the dark so they got a real feeling of listening to the radio without any visuals. It was a huge hit.

Matt, For each outing we decide on for the annual claendar, we have a scout planner and adult mentor. These are voluntary jobs. The boy who agrees to be the planner is actually responsible for planning the outing. He makes reservations, makes sure he has a MC for the campfire, that the Chaplain's Aid will be prepared or has a substitute, creates the program schedule for the weekend, etc. We usually couple this boy with a less experienced boy who needs to learn the ropes on planning an outing. The mentor is there to assist and guide, but not actually do the work. In my time with the troop, we have only had one outing go south for lack of planning because it was an older boy who said he had it under control and his mentor took him at his word. In the end, we could not go where we had intended to go for a climbing program and had to resort to a spur of the moment plan B. It was a failure at all levels. The mentors are still hands off, but do a better job of asking the scout planner to show them what they have done.

I like to think we have an excellent program. It is boy run. They determine where they want to go and what they want to do on an annual basis. The PLC meets weekly as well as a once a month meeting to determine what skills will be taught and who will teach them over the next month. Thhe SPL runs the meetings. We have our opening, a skill session, patrol meetings, game and closing. I've been with the troop since 2005 and with scouts coming and going, we consistently run a roster of around 60 scouts with 40 to 45 boys at meetings and outings. We have a number of 16 and 17 year old Eagle scouts who remain very active in our program. We have an outstanding new scout patrol program and annually attract about 20 boys on average. All that being said, my experience is that about half of those new boys will eventually drop at some point for a wide variety of reasons.

Wood Badge NEVER was an outdoor skills training course. It has always been leadership training in a troop/patrol format since BP's first course. IOLS is skills training. It's purpose is to teach those with direct contact how to do and teach the skills needed from Tenderfoot thru First Class. Powderhorn is a beginning for high adventure. In our council, we have our own home grown supplemental course that is offered twice a year. It is called OST - Outdoors Skills Training. Like Wood Badge, it is two weekends. It covers everything beyond First Class more in depth. It is all outdoors like IOLS and in a patrol format but more advanced. The participants are required to use a backpack and hike and move locations daily.

JASM, Instructor, Troop Guide, QM, Webmaster. I have overseen the new scout patrol program in our troop for several years and now assist the guy I turned it over to. My "preference" for Troop Guides are guys around 15 and up, Life to Eagle. We take guys younger and at lower ranks, but the young boys really look up to and respond to the older guys better. Guys can let us know they are interested in TG, but they have to be selected to serve. They "are the troop" to these new boys and their leadership and example is what sets the tone for every new scout coming into the troop. To me, it is probably one of THE most important positions in the troop. Kudu, If you are holding elections, the patrol is choosing who is elected. A 6 month term does not ensure that everyone "gets a turn". We've had guys run every 6 months and they have been the PL for 2+ years. If they do a good job, they get reelected.

Duplicate post.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Barry, I can top that. In a troop I used to serve, we had a kid too lazy to get up and walk to the tree line. It was claimed by some of the other boys that he would pee on the ground in the vestibule of his tent. It was his tent and he tented alone. I'm not sure how he could put up with the smell and mess, but sometimes you just have to learn the hard way.

Good Lord FScouter, I think you just channeled ol' BW!

sandspur, We have two troop trailers. One is troop/patrol gear that is literally packed solid and the other is the PG (personal gear) trailer that carries food, ice chests, camp chairs, packs, duffles, pillows, etc. Including adults, we can very easily have 50 on any given campout. The boys have five patrols plus the adult patrol. That is alot of tents, patrol boxes, dutch ovens, tarps, water cubes, lanterns, dining flys, fire buckets, KP buckets, etc. Turst me, our SM is an engineer and he is a packing space and efficeincy Nazi. While the troop does own some tents like you describe that we use for annual high adventure trips, we need more durable tents for monthly use. We have some of our Eureka Timberlines that are older than the boys. We just retired some from the mid-80's.

The troop I currently serve does not allow single boys in tents. But there is a reason behind it. The troop is 45 years old and has about 60 boys on the roster. Due to our age and success over the years at fundraising, we provide all tentage for boys and adults. This is actually a selling point for new scouts coming into the troop. Other than personal gear like a sleeping bag, rain gear, flashlight, etc., they don't have to purchase any other gear because it is provided. Since we are such a large troop, trailer space is limited and we don't allow kids to bring their own tents, stoves, lanterns, etc. There simply isn't room or any need for it. Even the senior leadership doesn't sleep alone. Their one perk is that they get an adult sized tent instead of a boy sized tent. We use Eureka Timberline tents for the boys and sleep two to three boys per tent. While tents are provided tents, they are welcome to bring their personal tent and sleep single if they so desire. In the troop I served prior to our current troop, we were brand new and had no equipment. The SM had a trailer that was far too big, so we had more room than we knew what to do with and could take everything including the kitchen sink if we wanted. The boys provided their own tents and we let them bunk together or sleep alone based on their personal preference. I find the whole buddy system claim on sleeping multiple to be bogus. We occasionally have adults asking boys where thier buddy is when they walk from their patrol site over to the adult site and we are all in full view of each other. That is overkill in my opinion.

I ran our NSP program for the last ouple of years and turned it over to one of my assistants this year and now assist him. Our troop utilizes mixed age patrols beyond the NSP. We get the bulk of our new scouts in the February/March time frame. We typically get 18 to 24 new scouts per year. We use three hand selected Troop Guides per new class on NSP to serve as their teachers and mentors. As they progress over the first few months, the troop guides step further and further back. In the fall, we move the new guys out of the NSP and into the mixed age patrols. It works for us.

NC, I was there in 2005 and will be returning in 2010. As I recall, ALL or nearly all MB's are "represented". Some can be earned, but others are merely displays or limited in what you can earn. We didn't discourage boys from going and participating, but we didn't encourage it either. The boys and their parents spent a ton of money to experience all the sights, sounds and activities the Jamboree affords and they can do an MB back at home. In our thinking, it was getting the most bang for your buck and taking time to do an MB at Jambo that could be done at home wasn't part of the bang they were paying for.......but that is just one opinion on the subject.

When a boy is a 17 year old Life Scout who has served as SPL in the past, is it our responsibility to chase him down and coax him to earn Eagle? Surely by now he knows how things work and what the deadlines are. Either he is interested or he isn't. Since he doesn't attned and is making no effort to earn his remaining MB's or put forth any effort to do his project, it sounds like he has already made his decision. He might come back in the last couple of months wanting to Eagle and not have enough time......but he knew the requirements up front. While I understand the courteous aspect of contacting him, this is his to step up to. I'm thinking that the most I would do is give him a friendly heads up phone call that he has 4 MB left that will take X amount of time (depending on what they are) and how the local coucil Eagle BOR functions and that once he hits a certain date, all bets are off.....and leave it up to him to make his choices.

Ahhhhh, out of council. I kept trying to come up with some religious denomination like LDS, RC or AG and was coming up blank. Doh! I don't really know how this would be handled with staff at our Boy Scout or Cub resident camps. My son has staffed Cub resident camp the past two years. There are no provisions for them to stay at camp on their time off. They get off around noonish on Saturday (or when the work is done) and have to be settled back into camp and at the staff meeting at noon on Sunday as campers begin arriving at 1:00 PM. Camp is 75 miles door to door and my son leaves no later than 10:00 AM on Sunday. The Camp Director is good to work with them for being off for church camp or Boy Scout camp or Jamboree troop meetings and such. Being late each Sunday though......I don't know how that would be handled.