SR540Beaver

It isn't impossible to recruit non-Cub Boy Scout aged boys, it's just darned hard. You don't get much return on your investment. Cub Scouting has always been the life blood of Boy Scouting. Any troop that ignores that does so at it's own peril. We typically get 15 to 20 new scouts per year and 99.9% of them come from Webelos crossing over. They don't automatically cross over to us. We actively work our Webelos/Boy Scout relationship with our surrounding Packs. We have sister troops out there that have a "feeder Pack" and expect the boys from that Pack to cross to them. Scouting is a free market. A boy can go to the troop of his choosing. Assist the Packs with their program, provide Den Chiefs, let them come camping with you, show them your program, etc. and you can keep new blood flowing into your troop year after year.

TnScout, A bit of friendly advice and you can take it or leave it. If you are starting a new Pack and Troop, please, please be part of the program and not one of those that fights against the program. Each unit has it's own culture and way of doing things. That's fine and perfectly normal. We teach new parents comning into our troop how we run. When they want to go check on little Tommy and how he is doing setting his tent up for the first time, we redirect them. They have Troop Guides that teach them and supervise them, not parents. We teach them how to cook in and clean a dutch oven. But if they fill out an adult registration, we expect them to get fully trained for their position in addition to what we teach within our troop. We have those maverick troops that hate district, hate council, think they have it all figured out and go off and do their own thing totally seperate from all their sister troops. I hate to say it, but very often these are run by guys who earned Eagle. They think that because they earned Eagle 25 years ago, they know how to run a troop today. They don't. A former district training chair who is a close friend.....and an Eagle, told me that the guys who were Eagle, were the toughest to get to attend training. Reason? They were Eagle and new scouting inside and out and didn't need that BSA training. Don't be that guy.

For those who say that their council provided tents, flys, etc., are you sure? To my knowledge, our fee covered the cost of those items. In the past, we used BSA canvas wall tents and the council kicked in on them and then used them for summer camp. But we went with dome tents this year and as far as I know, our fee covered their cost. These were pre-sold to troops and individuals for when we got back. I could be wrong though. Our stoves, stove stands, battery lanterns, patrol boxes with pots, pans and cooking utensils get stored and reused for each Jamboree.

We encourage the boys to visit the midway, but we don't encourage that they try earning any MB's. We also don't discourage it if they really have a desire. Jamboree costs a boat load of money and there are things to see and do there that they probably won't ever get to do back home. Earning an MB back home happens all the time. So we want them to visit and get an idea or feel for an MB and come back home and pursue it there. Don't stand in line for hours waiting to do something you can do at home and miss out on everything else there is to do.

BALOO is required on the tour permit for pack camping which includes Webelos if they are the pack. Webelos Leader Outdoor is optional, but preferrable.

Mike, Many schools today will not let you in during the school day and pull kids out of class. Another way to do it is to reserve a night at the school and hold a meeting that boys can come to. That is how my son signed up. That being said, it was for a meeting trying to get a new Pack started at the school and not for Boy Scouts. He joined as a Webelos. But you could just as easily hold a meeting for Boy Scout eligible boys only. We've always had good luck for Cub recruiting by being allowed a table for the new school year orientation where the parents come up and pay dues, get supply lists, pay for lunch cards etc. The school allows Scouts, Girl Scouts, Cheer organizations, etc. to have a table set up. Again, this works well for Cubs and can work for the kids old enough to join Boy Scouts in the elementary schools. The experience I've heard from the troops who have attempted recruiting 7th graders and above at a junior high is that the boys won't get within 100 feet of you. Not cool.

Welcome! Go to the source. http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/Adults/Training.aspx http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/Adults/Training/Trained%20Leader.aspx http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/UmbrellaTrainingJan2009.pdf Wood Badge really has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of non-Wood Badgers who have no outdoor skills to speak of either. The one thing you do at least have with a Wood Badger is that they are fully "trained" for whatever position they hold in scouting. Whether that training took or not, depends on the indvidual.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

I have to disagree with my fellow Beaver. One of the worst things we can do for our children is teach them that they are "entitled" to "things" by their elders. Nothing in life is free. Thrifty doesn't mean "paying your own way", although that is one of the lessons of thrifty. The Personal Management merit badge taught correctly teaches thrifty to a scout. You have to have a source of income, you have to have a budget, you have to meet your obligations, you need to save a portion and you need to spend your discretionary cash wisely. If we fail to teach our children those lessons when they are children, they are doomed to a life of thinking they deserve the things they want from the hands of others and/or will continue the downward slide of buying so much on credit that they will never be able to pay it off. Teaching a scout to work, earn money and spend it to pay part of his way is a valuable life lesson that hopefully reinforces what he is being taught at home. In those homes with helicopter parents, they probably are not getting those lessons. In our home, our son has known since he was little (17.5 now) that he would buy his own vehicle when he was old enough to drive or he wouldn't be driving. His mother and I both had to buy ours at that age too. Having some skin in the game makes a huge difference. When you have to stack bags of mulch, potting soil and manure, carry plants to peoples cars, sweep, drive a bobcat, etc. for 10 hours a day during the summer and then make your truck payment, buy your gas and pay your insurance.......you tend to appreciate your truck more than they guy who had it handed to him and comes to believe that he is entitled to it from mom and dad. I saw it in my generation and my son's generation. The kids who had it handed to them had no gratitude and no sense of responsibility and trashed their cars with the knowledge that mom and dad would get them another one. Those of us who bought our own treated them like a priceless gem. My son is sitting pretty with cash in his pocket, a weekly paycheck and $1500 in the bank and rarely spends any of it. He has another year left on paying off his truck. All of this and he still makes straight A's and just finished serving as SPL of his Jamboree troop. He took $200 spending cash that he earned thru fundraisers and didn't spend a penny of it. Other kids blew thru it in the first couple of days. Teaching a scout to be thrifty and earning money to help pay his way is an invaluable life lesson that will make him a better man and a better citizen. Just my .04 cents worth.

Anything at Jamboree is optional. That being said, we adults in leadership will encourage the boys to participate to get their (parent's) money's worth out of it. The one requirement we had was that they couldn't stay in camp. When breakfast KP was done and camp was clean, we released them until dinner. They could walk to the tree line and sit under a tree out of our sight all day if they wanted to, but they couldn't sit around camp. We kept two adults in camp in the morning while the other two went out and then swapped in the afternoon. If a boy showed up, he could fill his water bottle of get whatever he needed, but he had to leave. We did have 32 of our 36 boys choose to do the 5K.

Anybody west of the Mississippi want to chime in? The cost goes up the further west you are from AP Hill.

shortridge, The only thing I see is "comfortable bedding" and that is a relative term. Because the buses were picking us up at 6 AM the last day of Jambo, we had to totally pack up camp into our semi-trailer the evening before. I had to give up my "comfortable" cot and self inflating thermarest pad for a piece of plastic on the "uncomfortable" ground. I'm 53 and have a bad neck and shoulders. If I'd had to spend the whole 10 days on the ground, I couldn't have made the trip. The summer camps our troop has gone to in recent years are beginning to provide cots or actual beds inside the wall tents they provide. Hence my comment about bedding off the ground. It all depends on what one considers long term "comfortable bedding".

Gary, AS far as the BSA has come in moving into the 21st century, finding any pertinent information on their website is darn near impossible. It seems they work on a needs to know basis and evidently most of us don't need to know. I googled and found this 2008 document from meritbadge.org. Look at M-42 on page 11 of this PDF document. It calls for 30 square feet per scout and comfortable bedding. In 2005, we used 8x8 BSA wall tents and that is where I came up with the 32 sq ft claim. So, we exceeded the standard by 2 sq ft. In 2010, we used 10x10 Alps Mountaineering tents. http://meritbadge.org/wiki/images/e/ee/2008_Resident_Camp_Standards.pdf Editted to say: Gary, you could of course go cheaper by going with lower cost tents like the Ozark tents. That being said, you often get what you pay for and when that is your only shelter for 10 days, you want it to last. Previous Jambos have had remnants of hurricanes blow thru and many tents were lost. Our council took orders to sell the tents before we ever left for Jamboree. Many troops and individuals took the opportunity to purchase good tents that had only been used for 10 days at a great discount. While we did not pay the full price of $270 per tent, we sold them for $95 which helped keep our end cost low.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Nachamawat, very well said. Sex, religion and politics need to be left to the home. Our role in scouting is to support what is taught at home by pointing out the importance of those things in a scout's life without telling him "what" to think or do. Having been at Jambo in 2005 and 2010 and seeing the difference in security preparations, I still stand by my original statement. It is my sincere wish that the BSA never, ever invite a POTUS to the Jamboree. It is more hassle than it is worth and it keeps the political sniping down.

I went as a 1st ASM in one of our three contingent troops. Our cost in 2005 was $1900 per participant. In 2010, it was $3000. Adults pay the same as the youth. Here is what that bought us. Flight from Oklahoma City to Philadelphia for an afternoon and morning of touring with a tour guide. Hotel room and meals. Bus from Philly to DC for touring with a tour guide for 2.5 days. Hotels and meals. Bus from DC to Jambo as well as a rented 18 wheeler and driver with all gear other than duffle and daypack. Hotel room for driver as well as round trip airfare for him while Jambo is going on. Jambo fee. Tents, tables, dining flies, footlockers, daypacks, duffle bags, hats, neckerchiefs, nalgenes, 3 t-shirts and uniform patches. Bus ride from Jambo to DC airport and flight home. How much did your council charge and what did you get for the bucks spent? A neighboring council came for $1800. However, they spent 27 hours on a bus driving straight thru and went minimalist in their gear to get it all on the bus. BSA standards call for 32 sq ft of space per boy for long term camping and sleeping up off the gorund if I recall correctly. They slept on the ground for 10 days in Eureka Timberline tents and their flies were basically tarps with four lightweight poles. The guided their own touring.

Kids are pretty savvy or get that way fast. Our boys didn't really experience any problems with trading. It only takes one or two bad trades before they figure it out. Some kid demanding 6 of your patches for one if his usually gets blown off by everyone except the serious trader that thinks he just has to have "that" patch. Towards the end of the Jambo, we had a couple of kids who set up a screened in canopy along a road complete with a table, light, fan and water cooler. They were not getting much business. We usually had the older kids who had traded before teach the younger kids the ropes so they wouldn't get taken. As far as the patch of the day. Waste of valuable time. To get one, you had to care and you had to be in line early and there was work to be done in camp. We didn't release scouts until breakfast KP was done, slop buckets were back from the grinder, the site policed and the trash taken to the dumpster. If you've been around most troops for any length of time, you know how "fast" that all happens. As far as incentive to do other things, the rockers seemed to work pretty well for our guys. They need a goal and want to get something for their efforts. While we had some who could care less, we had others that planned out their days as to which areas they could hit and how many activities they could get done to finish the requirements for the rocker patches. They traded on the way there and back. Once they had their rockers earned, they turned their attention to doing the things they liked again and trading.

Sgt Slaughter is sponsored by and promotes the National Guard. Just like the Guard has a NASCAR and had Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon make appearances at Jambo, the WWE "stars" were there to help promote the Guard. I don't watch WWE or NASCAR, but a lot of kids do. BSA is working hard to make Scouting relevant to their target audience. I'm glad to see it, even if some aspects that attract todays kids are not my cup of tea.

I only have the 2005 arena show to compare to the 2010 arena show. The 2010 show was far more relevant to the youth than 2005. What I recall of the youth in our troop in 2005, the bulk of the show was boring and hokey, but the fireworks was outstanding. In 2010, having Mike Rowe and Switchfoot were huge hits with our troop, but the fireworks were not as great. Oddly, they claimed that the 2010 fireworks was the biggest ever done on a militart base. My recollection was that 2005's fireworks was a much larger and longer display, but I could be wrong. While I too would have preferred to see youth on stage for the competition, keep in mind that the staff takes their personal vacation time and pays the same Jambo fee as the youth participants to go work long hours in the heat doing some "dirty jobs". While they are "staff", they are also "participants". As far as AT&T's presence......who cares. They invested millions of dollars for our benefit. It would be wrong of us to not recognize their efforts on our behalf. The contingent troop I was with had made a decision to ban cell phones for youth. Parents complained and we changed our stance, but made some hard and fast usage rules. Our council had a blog page set up for the contingent leaders to use and I was my troops designated blogger. I can't tell you how many parents came up to me at the airport yesterday with sincere thank you's for reporting our adventure and them being able to follow it. The live stream and cable coverage of the arena show was also a big hit with folks back home. AT&T made much of that possible and absorbed a lot of the cost in support of scouting. It would be rude of BSA to not recongnize that. As far as the President not showing, I too made my feelings known in another thread. I will be brief here and say thank God he didn't. Bush came in 2005 and it was a distraction and interruption and wasted a day of valuable time. I would be perfectly happy if BSA never invited any President.

I'm late to the party here as I was at the Jambo. I admit I've on;y read the first page of comments. Let me say this. Thank God he didn't come!!! Why do I say that? Not for any political reason, but because I was at the 2005 Jambo when Bush came. While it is nice that a boy gets to say he saw a real live President of the United States, the hassle is just too great. 2005 was a "cluster" if you know what I mean. It was so disruptive to the flow of Jambo, it simply wasn't worth it. The show should have been cancelled due to black flag heat conditions, but because the President was coming, BSA made the decision to go with the march against the medical staff and military's advise. Kids and adults were dropping like flies. We had to mobilize even earlier than needed and sit packed in an arena in the blazing heat for far too long. We couldn't carry daypacks due to security concerns. We had to go thru metal detectors to get in the arena. We had to empty our water out of our bottles to enter the arena. Did I mentionm that it was a "cluster"? I'm perfectly fine that the President declined the offer. If I were at the top of the BSA, I would make the decision to never invite any President to the Jambo, ever! Our contingent fee was $3000. We want to get the most bang for our buck and wasting most of a day for a 10 to 15 minute speech by the President just isn't worth it.

Sadly, a few will spoil things for many. This was my second Jambo as an ASM. We always leave two adults in camp at all times. Along with a duffle bag and daypack, we provide a plastic footlocker and require the boys to buy a combination lock to lock them. Combination so we can get the numbers in case they forget them. Now, we can't make them secure their belongings, but we give them the means to do so. Both Jambos, I have acted as the "bank". I have a locking bank bag that is always in my posession. For those who want to, they can deposit money with me before elaving for Jambo and then make withdrawls while there. There is nothing worse than having a 12 or 13 year old kid crying to you because he lost $200 out of his pocket. One of the biggest problems we had in both 2005 and here in 2010 was kids trashing the latrines and showers. Our subcamp was luck enough to get air conditioned trailer flush toilets this jambo instead of portajohns. A few kids proceeded to trash them and they got locked. The company contracted to clean them refused to clean them because it exceeded their contract. Staff had to clean them and then they were converted to adult only latrines. The boys had to walk down the road to the portajohns. There were also kids who decided to have bowel movements in the nice trailer showers that were provided to our subcamp. Those did not get shut down, but we had to devise a SM/ASM volunteer shower monitor squad. Kids had to drop their name tags with the monitor and were limited to 5 minutes. What a shame.

I was in the audience and all I can say is, he managed to gain a few pounds on the way down.

I just got back from Jambo late yesterday afternoon. Our contingent had three troops. I was 1st ASM for one and my 17.5 year old son was SPL for another. The truth of the matter is that if you cough up the cash, you can go. That being said, we had one kid literally have a mental meltdown at a Jambo troop meeting back in 2005 and he was out. This year we had a kid who was over 300 lbs and was 5'6" who did not lose the weight he needed to over the 18 months from when he signed up and he got cut. My experience is that Jambo troops are just like our troops back home. They are a microcosm of society. Every troop has the over achiever, the slacker, the kind, the bully, etc. My son made an observation to me last week during Jambo that I pretty much agree with. National should change the minimum age from 12 to 14.....and he went as a 12 year old in 2005. Speaking to our subcamp medical facility staff who came from our council, they told me that the majority of the minor cases they see are the 12 and 13 year olds. Many of them were just unprepared for something of the magnitude of Jambo and were looking for a mommy figure to tell them that things would be OK. One kid was coming in up to 5 times a day. The best you can do is have mature senior leadership and experienced adult leadership and help guide the boys thru the experience in as organized of a fashion as possible. More than once we referred to our job as herding cats.

desertrat77: "National, council, district cadres put their money where they mouth is. Can anyone name another training course that is more heavily resourced than WB? Across the board, WB gets the lion's share of salesmanship, resources, priority. Everything else? A mention at roundtable and a blurb in the district events bulletin." Ahhhh but......you can not attend Wood Badge without being fully trained for your position in Scouting. I've served on three WB staffs now and can tell you that we sell, support and staff the other training. Without it, there is no WB course. A full course is 48 particpants. We hold two courses per year, so that is 96 possible participants. You have to have 30 fully paid participants 30 days out for a course to be approved. That means there is a constant push for all of the other training BSA provides in order to have elligible participants. Keep in mind that BSA will be requiring leaders to be trained in order for the unit to recharter and that is an indication of what training is getting the big push. WB isn't required.

You know, my experience is that the units who seems to be struggling with providing program at any level are the units who don't promote training. Some training is better than no training. While EDGE is a new acronym, it is the way scouting has always functioned. We pass our training and knowledge along to the new folks who come along. Very few people cross from Cubs to Scouts with advanced outdoor skills. I work with our new scout program. Can't tell you how many new boys and adults I've seen come over from Cubs and go o ntheir first campout carrying everything including the kitchen sink. They look like they are going on an expedition down the Amazon. It doesn't take long before they learn how to scale way back and develop their outdoor skills. I've seen small and large troops where scouting seems to be an after thought for all involved and they go to the same camp and campsite when they do go camping and basically hang out around the fire all day. They are largely untrained, don't see the value in training and avoid you when you mention it. Don't have time. Then I've seen small and large troops where scouting is taken seriously and a varied and interesting program is provided. The majority of adults in these troops are trained, see the value and usually assist in training. They have Scoutmasters like our troop where the SM makes sure the troop (not a council contingent) does a high adventure trip every year. As a personal note, the majority of these are Wood Badge trained folks.

IOLS will soon become required training in order to have a unit chartered. IOLS covers teaching adult leaders the skills needed to meet the Tenderfoot thru 1st Class requirements. In addition, our council has a two weekend council developed course called Outdoor Skills Training that covers more advanced high adventure outdoor skills beyond Tenderfoot to 1st Class. Then there is always Powderhorn. The current Wood Badge course isn't intended to teach what these other courses teach. It's stated purpose is different. I don't understand why so many Scouters misunderstand it's intent and purpose.

John-in-KC: "I'm beginning to understand why some elements of Baptist Churches (which elect to use Royal Rangers vice Scouting) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod will not participate in Scouting." Close, but no cigar. The Assembly of God Church uses Royal Rangers. Southern Baptists use Royal Ambassadors. But your point is taken and shared by me. As a Cub aged boy in the mid-60's, I was a Royal Ambassador at church and a Cub Scout thru the Pack at my school. Oklahoma is heavily Baptist and I know of no church that is CO for a Pack, Troop or Crew. Back in 2004, I was looking for a CO for a Troop that had split off from another Troop and my own Baptist church turned me down as well as another Baptist church and an Assembly of God church. It was no use going to the Catholic, Lutheran or the numerous Methodist churchs. They all had scouting units already. I finally found a small Presbyterian church who took us in.