SR540Beaver

Go to scoutstuff.org or your local scout shop and look for these. In Our Own Way - http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&C3=RAWARDS&C4=&LV=3&item=34612&prodid=34612^8^01RTL& Strength for Service - http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&C3=RAWARDS&C4=&LV=3&item=32545&prodid=32545^8^01RTL& Reverance Phamplet - http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&C3=RAWARDS&C4=&LV=3&item=34248&prodid=34248^8^01RTL&

OGE, you need to back up about 300 feet.

Fees for adults? Standard fare in scouting. I've had to pay about half price to staff three WB courses. I've had to pay full price to be a leader at the 2005 and 2010 Jamborees. (For my son and I, the two trips cost a minimum of $10,000.) I've paid for everything I've staffed. We pay at the troop level too, but it is less than half what the boys pay.

Bart, The Jambo troop camped next to us had one of those monsters erected in their site.

Troop committees conduct the "business" of the troop. I suspect that BSA says no to committee member until 21 for legal reasons, but I don't know that for a fact. As far as the Chapter Chief being on the district committee, I'd like to see where that is stated. Mind you, I'm not opposed to it......it is just that as Chapter Adviser and district committee member, I've never heard of it. I can't get him to attend chapter meetings as it is, so getting him to district committee meetings ain't happening.

Our original intent with our Jambo troop was to not allow phones. We had a small number of parents go ballistic with the council over not being able to stay in contact with junior. We ended up having to change our policy, but the boys were on their own for recharging. Word had gotten around pre-Jambo about the AT&T charging stations, but I knew (based on porta-potties and pay phones in 2005) that it would be a fiasco using one and I was correct. They were abused and largely unavailalbe and boys spent most of the Jamboree with dead phones. I was the designated blogger for our troop. That was our original plan to keep the helicopter parents satisfied and they did appreciate the updates. I originally investigated using solar power, but quickly realized that they didn't live up to their hype. Many said that they would recharge an iPhone in 8 hours, but the finer print and reviews indicated that the peak sun was from 10 AM until 2 PM and the 8 hours was over a two day period with constant shifting of the panel to keep it pointed directly at the sun. I found a little device that used 4 double AA batteries to charge my iPhone. Trying it at home, I found that alkaline batteries wouldn't fully charge it. I switched to lithium and bingo, I was in business. I could usually get two full charges off of a set of batteries. Someday, solar might become effecient, but for now I will stick with extra batteries.

You know, it might be helpful if they moved the physical part from Tenderfoot to First Class and gave a boy more time to develop. A year is a world of difference to a growing boy. A lot of kids come into the program with an urgency to get that first rank badge. Many of them are stopped dead in their tracks by pull ups. They just came from Cubs. Let them get some physical activity thru campouts and summer camp under their belt and a little closer to puberty before requiring "feats of strength" for rank advancement. I understand the spirit of the requirement. It teaches them that they need to be physically fit and that regular exercise over a period of time can help them achieve their goal. A lot of 10.5 to 11 year old boys have the attention span and discipline of a gnat. Getting them to exercise at home every day for 30 days just doesn't happen as much as we would like it to. Most boys that age when asked what they did at the troop meeting will either give their parent a blank stare or say "stuff".

FCFY isn't rapid advancement. It is offering a program full of active doing and learning that allows a boy to advance if he avails himself of the opportunities provided. If he doesn't attend, participate, show, explain, do......he doesn't advance. I guess you could say our troop offers a FCFY program since we try to build all the requirements for T-2-1 into a year, but it is rare that any boy actually makes it to 1st class in a year. They usually make 2nd class and have a good number of 1st class done if they are active. Not everyone is going to be at everything in that given year. The kids that pick and choose their campouts based on weather, the kids who play sports, the kids who show up for a meeting when they feel like it, they progress moew slowly. FCFY is not a participation program where they sit in class and the SM stands at the door and signs books because they were sitting in the room.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

In the past 4 years or so that I've dealt with our new scout program, we've probably ran a good 65 to 75 boys thru. Our experience is that the majority of boys at that age don't have the upper body strength to do pull ups. Occasionally you get a spider monkey that can rip 30 off, but they are the exception, not the rule. Even after 30 days of honest effort, many of these boys still can't do a single pull up. We use the fractional approach. If the kid just hangs there the first time AND the second time, we have him go back and work more. If we see "improvement" and he can pull himself up more than he did when he just hung there, he showed improvment. We never want to have them "phone it in" and just give advancement away like a cheap toy. That said, they are not going into combat where their patrol member is counting on them to keep them alive either. Holding a boy back for three years is ignorant.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Everyone is correct in that there is no such thing as co-SM's. That being said, we have a troop in our district that has......drum roll please......co-SM's. They must read Scouter.com and follow the "make it up as you go" and "whatever works for you" crowd. Let's just say that lots of other folks look at them and scratch their heads a lot.

Never, ever, never, ever, never hold the committee meeting the same night as a troop meeting. This is how the first troop my son and I joined operated. It is also what led a whole class of newly crossed over scouts and their parents to leave the troop after four months. It was a small and struggling troop that had not done much recruiting and had "older" boys who were very comfortable with their clique. The SM was deployed and no one in the troop would step up and fill in. The gentleman who at the time was the District Training Chair and an Eagle Scout who had a son crossing over agreed to be the acting SM until the SM returned. All of the rest of us new families joined because we knew him and respected him. The committee was without a chair, so his wife stepped up and took the position. We were all excited to be part of the wonderful world on Boy Scouting. The deployed SM's wife was the treasurer. She wouldn't file any financial reports and couldn't tell us how much money boys had in accounts. The CC continued to ask her for these items for the committee meetings. To make a long story short, for conveniences sake, they held committee meetings the same time as troop meetings and all that seperated the boys from the adults are the paer thin hanging folder walls in the church fellowship hall. About 4 months in, the CC (acting SM's wife) asked the treasurer (SM's wife) for the financial reports and scout account info and the lady went ballistic. She started screaming how all of us had ruined the troop since we joined and how she was told she could do the job however she saw fit when she took it and proceeded to actually throw three ring binders across the table at the CC. The boys were on the other side of the wall and could hear the commotion. A meeting ensued with the COR who seemed perturbed that he had to actually show up and do something as well as the unit commish. Basically all they offered was, "can't everyone just get along". No, they couldn't. We all moved to greener pastures and left them to their comfortable clique. So, my suggestion is to NEVER have committee meetings the same time as troop meetings. You never know when a hot headed adult might put on an unscoutlike display.

Yep, temp patch. I've got one for darn near every single event I've ever attended. I'm surprised they don't hand them out at roundtable.

Wow! deja vu! I'd swear I've read this before.

nldscout, I'm a Chapter Adviser and very familiar with the membership requirements and the election process as outlined in the Guide for Officers and Advisers. In fact, we are gearing up for our elctions right now and doing team training tomorrow night. You posted only part of what the guide says. Unit leader approval To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his unit leader prior to the election. The unit leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e., his adherence to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The unit leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election. Youth membership qualifications All members of, or candidates for membership in, the Order of the Arrow who are under 21 years of age shall be considered youth members or candidates for youth membership, subject to meeting the following requirements: Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America. Hold the First Class rank of the Boy Scouts of America, as a minimum. After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps. Candidates for youth membership shall be elected by other youth members in accordance with policies set forth by the national Order of the Arrow committee. Note that it says, "The unit leader "must" also "certify" that the nominee "meets all specified requirements" at the time of this annual election. It doesn't say that the SM interprets the "specified" requirements. The requirements are fairly cut and dried. If a boy is one requirement away from First Class, he doesn't qualify. The SM doesn't get to decide that he is close enough in spirit to be onthe ballot. Are there some who might? Sure. Are they being trustworthy? No. Granted, it is the honor system. Our election teams are not going to ask for TroopMaster reports or make boys crack open their handbooks. We take the SM at his word when he "certifies" they have met requirements. All of that being said, I'm quite used to selected unit leaders wanting to play fast and loose with the "rules". I have one maverick unit who has three boys complaining that they have not been able to seal their Brotherhood in two years. Now, they have had at least eight opportunities over those two years, but they've always been "busy" when the ceremonies were held. This unit leader actually called me last week wanting to know if he could get a copy of the Brotherhood ceremony and read it to the boys in a "private" ceremony to go ahead and get it done. Uh, no.......you can't. This is the same troop that called the District Training Chair and asked to get a stack of Youth Protection cards because they were going to do their own training. Uh, no. They are also trying to avoid the new training requirments for recharter by claiming they did IOLS and SM Specific at an out of state summer camp this year. That is why I'm not a big fan of interpreting requirements.

BadenP: "I think the real problem here is semantics, are committee members really considered to be "Scout Leaders"? Their job requires no direct contact with scouts, even though some do go on camping trips with the troop that is not part of their duties as a committee member. Their function is mainly an organizational and administrative behind the scenes position. For that reason I do not feel that a committee member should be eligible fot the Scout Leaders Award, however is would be nice for them to have an award for committee members recognizing their efforts." Really? Who does the BOR's, advancement chair, fundraising chair, etc. in your neck of the woods?

nldscout, Negative! The boy must meet the requirements set forth by the OA to be elligible for election. The only call the SM has is whether or not to place him on the ballot based on Scout Spirit. The SM doesn't get to waive the camping nights or rank requirements.

Narritacong: "Once again, the requirements are intended to determine those who will be an asset to the Order." I disagree. A boy simply has to meet the listed requirements as a minimum and the SM considers his Scout Spirit to be placed on the ballot to be voted on by his peers. Any youth elected is accepted by the OA with no questions asked about whether he is an asset or not. Adults on the other hand are nominated and the Lodge reviews their nomination and decides whether or not to accept them based on being an asset to the Order.

JerseyScout: "I've never been one for OA, I was elected three times and never bothered to attend the ordeals. My troop always did more camping and service than our local chapter by a very healthy margin, so I just didn't see the point." What a shame. As a Chapter Adviser, I deal with this issue with boys and units. Of course your unit camped more and did more service than your local chapter. They are supposed to. An Arrowman's first responsibility is to his unit and a Brotherhood member is expected to give back service to his unit generously. Lodges and chapters are expected NOT to overburden their calendar and have expectations of scouts feeling a need to choose between their unit or the OA. You were elected by your peers three times because they found you worthy due to your abilities, Scout skills, leadership, character and example. They were honoring you as someone they would like to be like. Why would you turn that down? We are gearing up for elections right now and running into the age old "we don't allow OA in our unit" sentiment from particular troops. Do what? That is like a school saying the don't allow the National Honor Society. The Order of the Arrow is a program of the BSA and it recognizes outstanding boys based on the vote of their peers. What skin is it off of an SM's back to recognize a scout for service, leadership, skills, etc. Honoring that boy takes absolutely nothing away from your program. It shines a light on him to make other boys aspire to his level. As long as he is providing service to his unit, he is fulfilling his obligation as an Arrowman. If he chooses to get involved in ceremonies, dance team, holding chapter of lodge office, etc., that is just enhancing his scouting experience and could help keep him active at an older age.

Ditto to Lisabob. I took WB back in 2003 when I was a Pack Committee Chair along with three other folks from my Pack. Our CM was a TG on the course. He recruited the four of us. While the Pack was doing OK at the time, us attending the course was a game changer for the Pack. It created a training tradition in that Pack. Removed seven years, I know folks at that Pack.....not because they were there when I was, but thru their leaders attending WB courses I've staffed. In the past, we have targeted Cubbers for recruitment. The logic behind it (which I find sound) is that Packs do not always have the deepth and breadth that Troops do. Troops have people crossing over after several years in Cubs to mix in with people who have already been there and done that along with a number of years in the troop. In short, folks in troops usually have many more years of experience that folks in packs lack. Packs tend to reinvent the wheel over and over as leadership leaves for troops. WB gives these pack folks a broader view of scouting than they have ever had and provides a swet of tools for helping to organize and deal with people. It also gives them a network of folks to glean information from that they don't get on the unit level. I do belive that WB has helped to strengthen packs to grow and sustain themselves long term.

I'm kind of like twocub here. While we do all we can to be accomodating......just like we are not trained psychologists, we are not trained medical professionals either. Any child who has a lethal reaction to something, I'm a little antsy about being responsible for.

Narraticong, Scout Spirit is left to the SM. The other requirements are just that, requirements. If over a two year period a boy only spent half a week at summer camp and then came home to go on a family vacation, he does not qualify to be on the ballot. If he only has 14 nights of camping over a two year period, he doesn't qualify anymore than if he was only one requirements away from being 1st class. Now.....can an SM fudge the facts to an election team? Yes he could. Hopefully he wouldn't. The SM's job is to first verify that a boy meets the minimum requirements and then consider whether he thinks his adherence to the Oath and Law is examplery (sp?) enough (Scout Spirit) to be placed on the ballot. That is a huge descertionary point left to the SM, but the requirements are the requirements.

John, I let the powers that be make the hard decisions. I simply staff when asked.

Like jhankins, we order from a wholesaler. In this case it is Ben E Keith and they deliver to camp. I served as QM with two AQM a couple of years back. We didn't have a QM of meals. As QM, I did it. Just different strokes for different folks. Our council puts on two courses per year and we have a WB committee made up of past course directors. We pretty much have things down to a science and don't reinvent the wheel each time. I was provided with menues from 3 or 4 previous courses. I imported it all into an Excel spreadshhet and began to realize that the menues were virtually indentical from one course to the next. The only difference was which day a particular meal was served on. The vegetable might change, but it was virtually identical. Boom, that made my life pretty easy. In our council, the QM staff doesn't have to cook or clean and are left to handle gear, equipment, maintenance, facilities, room set up, etc. The cooking and cleaning is handled by support staff made of previous course directors at the invitation of the course director. They pretty much stay to themselves and do their job so as not to take away from the CD and his staff. They are there to serve and take pressure off the rest of the staff so they can do their jobs and provide the best course possible. They also serve as an excellent resource to the CD since they have "been there, done that". But I digress. Our meals are for the most part pre-cooked items from the wholesaler and we practice heat it up, eat it up. No hours of cooking from scratch. The contact at the wholesaler is more than happy to discuss your menu, the number of participants to feed and tell you the quantity you need to order for each item of each meal. While it is a task, this approach makes it a lot easier than it could be.

Heard it was coming. We brand the participants mug and stave (both provided by the course) with the course number inside the axe and log. Either we will be doing away with that tradition or the log is going to be about twice as long and the brand cost twice as much.

Bart, I'll ditto what Eagle92 said. I know that there are parts of the country where LDS makes up the majority in Scouting. Here in Oklahoma, that isn't the case. Last year, my district had 25 troops on the books. Only 3 of those 25 were LDS units and they were small from what I hear. I say "from what I hear" because the LDS troops do not participate in any district or council events and don't attend roundtable. When I send them emails about Oder of the Arrow, they never respond. Now to be fair, I have non-LDS troops that don't participate in council or district events, attend roundtable or respond to emails either. We just keep plugging away in the hopes that one day we might get a nibble. Regardless of how many times you tell some troop leaders, they just are not convinced that the OA isn't going to steal their boys from them.