SR540Beaver

Ed, You can do the same homework I did. Scouter-Terry confirmed back in 2002 that Yaworski and Zorn Packte are the same person. FOG started out [using BobWhite's real name] and had the name taken away from him. He became temp_changed for a short time and then FOG. It is MY opinion as well as others (again, you'll have to do the homework) that they are all five the same person because of the similar wording, writing style, background, "humor", and the overwhelming urge to take swipes at Bob White on a whim. As I said, I can't prove that all 5 are the same guy, but there is no question that 2 were the same guy and the other 3 were one person as well. Everytime anyone has asked, none of the personalities have denied, confirmed or commented. Odd, no? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Ed, Some of us don't like a person opening multiple user ID's and representing themselves as more than one person. It is dishonest pure and simple. Yaworski was also Zorn Packte who was also [bobWhite's real name] who was also temp_changed who was also Fat Old Guy. Now Fog is posting as Yaworski again. Not exactly scout like or anyone I would want working with my son. You don't see something amiss in any of this? Do you post as anyone besides evmori? Why would you unless you wanted to cause problems or yank peoples chains. It is obvious that this person has a vendetta against Bob White as each personality has gone out of it's way to make personal attacks from time to time. Why did Yaworski show up again? Isn't being FOG good enough? It tends to make one wonder just who JasonOK and his little parade of personalities might have actually been. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Ed, Do you not remember this thread? You posted in it. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=19043#id_19043 Yaworski was also Zorn Packte and even posted messages back and forth between himself trying to present himself as two different persons. There are some who suspect he never left and has still been around under at least three other user names ever since. Since I can't prove it, I won't drop any names.

Hopefully it will be a short holding pattern unc.

Eagle Foot, You say they are having their mutual admiration society outings on Scout properties? Are they making a reservation and filing a Tour Permit with the Council? If so, they are not just having a buddies outing, they are having a troop activity. If not, they don't belong on the property. Check with your council and see if they are making reservations and turning in paper work. If they are, make arrangements with the Council concerning who can and can not do this from your troop. If they are just walking in and taking advantage of the camp property without approval, clue the council and ranger in. For me, the dividing line here is whether it is just a group of close friends who enjoy spending time outdoors in addition to the troop activities or if they are doing it as a clandenstine troop activity complete with paperwork. The other posters are correct, it needs to be handled directly with the adults involved. However, letting council and the ranger(s) know what is going on could help put an end to it too.

CubsRgr8, Some additional thoughts. I don't know about the folks who make up the Jambo adult leaders in your council. Our Jambo coordinator is SM for one of the largest troops in our council. They regularly take 90 to 100 boys on campouts. He is active at the council, district and unit level as is his assistant coordinator. Many (but not all) of the Jambo adult leaders are in the same boat. We are volunteers with families, jobs, responsibilities at home, church, work, troop, etc. On top of volunteering at the troop level, we are further volunteering for Jambo and have to go thru an interview process and pay for the privilige to go. I'm not trying to make excuses, but some dyas there just are not enough hours in the day or days in the week. We don't always have the luxury to hold additional meetings at our leisure and have to do it when it has to be done. An example is fundraising. What we hear when we try to recruit is that the $1900 is too high. Many boys won't sign up because of the price tag. I have one boy in my troop that took $100 out of his personal savings account because he wanted to go so bad. His dad told me that he wished he had not done it because there was no way they could pay his way. I brought this up in our adult meetings. The coordinator was not trying to be mean, just matter of fact about it. He said that he had his hands full making all the arrangements and could not coordinate a fundraiser too. However, anyone that wants to step up and do it is welcome to. I stepped up and single handedly coordinated a fundraiser for 100 boys across 24 counties. We are selling first aid kits thru the month of August. It has been a hardship on me to do this on top of everything else I've got going on, but we needed it and no one else would do it. Most parents and/or boys have no idea of the complexity of organizing a contingent with volunteers who are already taxed.

CubsRgr8, I am a 2nd ASM for one of 4 troops in my council's contingent. We had our kick-off meeting last November and the adults selected by January. The adult membership meets monthly. Our contingent will consist of 144 boys and right now we are at about 97 and struggling to get another 47 to commit this "early". We are also having trouble finding four 3rd ASM's in the 18 to 21 age range. The council Jambo coordinators are busy making travel arrangements and selecting gear while the adult leaders are beating the recruitment bushes. As a parent of a boy who is going to Jambo, I too would be curious and wonder why I've heard little more than a monthly reminder to please make regular payments. That being said, Jambo is just under a year away. What is it you want these boys to do a year away from Jambo? They aleady belong to a troop where they hold weekly troop meetings and monthly campouts. Why throw another set of meetings on top of them until needed. Our council covers 24 counties in Oklahoma. That is the whole southwest quarter of the state plus some additional area. Some of the boys would have to travel 2 hours to attend meetings. A year out, I really don't know what we would keep them busy with. It is hard enough getting some scouts to attend their own troop meetings regularly, let alone having parents drive them to another set of meetings in another town. I would like to see us have an update meeting for parents and boys and I think there is one towards the end of the year. A cheaper alternative at this stage would be an occasional newsletter to participants or a web page. For those contingents lucky enough to have a waiting list and their troops decided, they could probably have some boy meetings. We are still short a whole troop and anyone signing up now would be behind the curve.

FOG: "And no I am not BW." What makes you think that I'm talking about someone named "XX"? Where's the moderator when someone's dissin' me? Mabye this BackBacker fellow does have a special connection with the moderators . . . maybe he is that fellow who claimed to have left. Interesting, no? Kind of reminds you of the old multiple personality Zorn Packte/Yaworski trouble maker who used to hang around these parts doesn't it?

BD, I was trying to spell it so Texans could understand it.

Texas you say? Don't you mean Baja Oklahoma? Say, do you guys have a footbal team down there? Welcome to the campfire!

As the camp directors of our various camps have always told the boys, "this camp is the home to a lot of wild animals year round, we are only visiting for a short time". They then go on to tell them that the animals are usually afraid of humans, to keep their distance, leave them alone, call for a staff member if it needs to be removed and no food in tents. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Armed Scoutmasters is not the answer. On our last campout a racoon sauntered into the adult area, climbed up on the table and started snooping around with us only 15 feet away. We ran him off and put all the food back inside locked vehicles. Never saw him again. Most feral dogs I've seen won't get within 100 feet of a human and tend to run off if you take a step towards them. If your gogs are acting braver and actually approaching people and acting threatening, then the council and the ranger need to take steps to have them removed when scouts are not present.

scoutldr, I always thought those cabins were just there for spite. I've never seen any of them used. It's kind of like when your Mom puts plastic covers on the furniture so they'll look new 50 years from now.

Now we will just call you kid instead of junior. I have bad news for you.....the nicer washroom is just a latrine with a bigger hole. You have to have a larger fanny like us seniors to keep from falling in.

Hey Eamonn, I'm 47, do I qualify as a little brother? My hair is even patchy on top like a baby and I have what would pass as baby fat. To everyone else, I have a question about religious emblems. How do you find qualified intructors for your faith? We have a brand new troop of eight 11 year olds of what I'm sure are variuos protestant faiths. How do we go about finding someone who can work with them on earning their emblem?

I'm guessing too, but I think KS was bitten by the same bug that has been cutting off various poster's messages mid message and just has not been back yet to realize what happened.

Eamonn, I certainly understand your dismay. I'd feel the same way if it happened in my neck of the woods. Obviously, I don't know the boys involved; so I can't speak to their environment. I think one thing to keep in perspective is that even though we want to hold Scouts to a higher standard, they are after all their own person. We as leaders have this vision of Norman Rockwell Scouts in our mind and want to turn "our" boys into that. We want to make a difference. I think in the long term we do. Sometimes it takes someone many years before the lesson sinks in. Everything I know about customer service came from the manager of the grocery store I worked in as a kid. At the time, I thought he was dorky the way he'd run to open the door for a customer. I didn't like it when he would preach to us about how the customer was king. Thirty years later, I realize he was right and I act just like him. We have to keep in mind that Boy Scouts are just boys. We have them an hour and half each week and one weekend a month to make an influence on them. The time they spend at home and with peers far outweighs the time we have with them. We have a kid who was in our Pack and who is now in our Troop who has a foul mouth. Why? Because his Dad could make a sailor blush with the words he uses at home. It is doubtful that we can break this boy of using bad language. All we can do is attempt to control it within our scouting environment. I guess the bottom line that I'm trying o get across is that these boys are going to do dumb stuff growing up just like we did. They are going to act out based more on what they see at home than what they see in scouting. Hopefully, as they mature, they will see the difference and chose the better example from scouting over the bad example of a bad parent or peers. I've seen more than one scaliwag grow into a good, mature, responsible adult. But it took a while to get there. Just because a kid is from a good family, in scouting or active in church does not mean he won't make a mess of things at some point. That isn't an excuse. There needs to be some sort of consequence that makes him rethink why he would do such a think and hopefully chose never to do it again. Hopefully the consequence won't be getting thrown out of scouting. He still needs that positive influence.

32 years! Wow. I'm saddened that your project was wiped out. On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that your project has outlived many other Eagle projects. Maybe this was the "Great Scout's" way of saying, "job well done, now lets clear the table for another Eagle project." I'm willing to bet you see your park back up to it's former glory some day.

I just came across this little story and thought it would make a great Scoutmaster Minute about being prepared. Can You Sleep When The Wind Blows? Years ago a farmer owned land along the Atlantic seacoast. He constantly advertised for hired hands. Most people were reluctant to work on farms along the Atlantic. They dreaded the awful storms that raged across the Atlantic, wreaking havoc on the buildings and crops. As the farmer interviewed applicants for the job, he received a steady stream of refusals. Finally, a short, thin man, well past middle age, approached the farmer. "Are you a good farmhand?" the farmer asked him. "Well, I can sleep when the wind blows," answered the little man. Although puzzled by this answer, the farmer, desperate for help, hired him. The little man worked well around the farm, busy from dawn to dusk, and the farmer felt satisfied with the man's work. Then one night the wind howled loudly in from offshore. Jumping out of bed, the farmer grabbed a lantern and rushed next door to the hired hand's sleeping quarters. He shook the little man and yelled, "Get up! A storm is coming! Tie things down before they blow away!" The little man rolled over in bed and said firmly, "No sir. I told you, I can sleep when the wind blows." Enraged by the response, the farmer was tempted to fire him on the spot. Instead, he hurried outside to prepare for the storm. To his amazement, he discovered that all of the haystacks had been covered with tarpaulins. The cows were in the barn, the chickens were in the coops, and the doors were barred. The shutters were tightly secured. Everything was tied down. Nothing could blow away. The farmer then understood what his hired hand meant, so he returned to his bed to also sleep while the wind blew. MORAL: When you're prepared, spiritually, mentally, and physically, you have nothing to fear. Can you sleep when the wind blows through your life? The hired hand in the story was able to sleep because he had secured the farm against the storm.

BD, We were in the same situation last year with two boys who joined the pack as Webelos II's. We crossed our "veteran" boys over in February. We visited with the 2 new boy's and their parents about staying with the pack to complete their AOL. They agreed and continued to meet with the Webelos I's and completed their AOL by the Cub graduation ceremony we hold in May. At the ceremony, they crossed over to a troop. They could have chosen to cross over to a troop in February without their AOL, but didn't. Since they were new to the pack and den, strong ties had not really been made with the other boys that caused them to feel the need to move with them. They knew it would only be another 3 months before they crossed and would be back with them. It worked great for us.

Being a Christian, I find no offense to prayer being said in school or at games, "in God we trust" being on money, the Ten Commandments being displayed publically, "under God" being in the pledge or manger scenes in front of the local fire stations. That being said; as a Christian, my faith is sustained by my personal relationship with God and none of these other things. Whether they exist or not does not add to or diminish my faith, service, duty to God or raising my family in a Christian environment.

Pedro, That's ALL you've done?!!! Come on, pick up the pace! Welcome to our campfire.

meamemg, Bob White was a long time poster, one of the most knowledgable people on this forum and was a stickler for doing Scouting by the book. The people who don't care for the "book" version of Scouting liked to harrass him. He finally got his fill and left recently. Hopefully it is just a break and he will return. Fat Old Guy never misses a chance to take his name in vain.....even after he is gone. We call that an obsession or fixation in my part of the world. We also call it unsportsman like conduct. You can go to the "Search Forums" section of the forums and do a search on Bob White's name and gain a wealth of Scouting information. You can do a search on Fat Old Guy and find plenty of one liners.

There is a company called ALPS that has only been around for a short number of years. The man who owns/runs it has many years of experience working for companies like Sierra Designs. Evidently he has ties to Boy Scouts or is savvy enough to know who to cater to to get his brand out in public. ALPS has a sister site at www.scoutdirect.com where they have deeply discounted products for Boy Scouts. It is hard to tell from pictures, but they seem to make a good quality tent. Check them out. BTW, they were putting together Jamboree packages for Council contengents of tents, sleeping bags and cots.

E, Groovy!

My older brother called me Hotrod. I think it probably had to do with the number of speeding tickets I got as a teenager. In college, I was Batman to some of the girls because they thought my car looked like the batmobile. The guys in my dorm called me Dad because I was a junior on a floor full of freshmen. I'm now known as Uncle Bub within my family. I have a twin brother and we called each other Bubby and Buddy when we were mere tikes. As we got older, we would greet each other with "hey Bub". My nephew would hear us say it and I auomatically became Uncle Bub to him when he began talking. It stuck with all of the other neices and nephews and great neices that came along. My Mom even calls me that when the kids are around. I wear it proudly! I did have a girl that referred to me as Studmuffin, but we'll leave that for the campfire some night! LOL