SR540Beaver

Google is a wonderful thing. http://www.scouting2007.org/english/register.php

I certainly hope the ability to demonstrate pull ups never becomes the standard for being a scouter. I couldn't even do them when I was a fit and trim 6'2", 180 lbs. 18 year old. I've always had lousy upper body strength. Now, if we want to start having scouts do leg presses, I can show them how to press about 380 Lbs. A side note. I've had two surgeries on my left shoulder over the last 20 years. Last year I did attempt to "show" our new scouts how to do a pull up. I spent two days taking pain medication and keeping heat on my shoulder after that. Consider a coach. Can he coach his players without having to go out and take a tackle to prove his worthiness as a coach?

Bob, Perhaps you didn't read what I quoted from the FAQ. You are correct that Terry would be the one to set it up. However, Terry's FAQ says to either submit the idea to the admin OR post your idea in the SCOUTER Forums to get open feedback. That is exactly what Terry suggested and what Seattle did. I don't understand why you took the tenor you did over following procedure and asking a simple question.

Bob, That was a bit harsh. I quote from the Scouter.com FAQ. "Have a suggestion for a new forum? Do you have an idea for a new forum that could be added? Simply email the administrator with your proposal, or post your idea in the SCOUTER Forums to get open feedback.

SWScouter, I understand what you are saying about dutch oven recipes. Very often the cooking demos or competitions are just that, demos and competitions and peole are going for flavor rather than healthy fare. That being said, a dutch oven is just that, an oven. Just about anything you can do with your oven at home, you can do in a dutch oven. Contrary to popular belief, all dutch oven recipes do not require a slab of bacon! Stews cook well in a dutch oven. You can use lean beef or chicken. Potatoes and corn for starchy veggies and things like onion, carrots, mushrooms, green beans, celery, tomatoes, etc. for the healthy stuff. You get a complete balanced meal in one pot. Bran muffins can be cooked just as easily as that calorie laden cobbler. If you want to use your dutch oven more, just adapt any healthy recipes you have at home and leave the lard can at home. BUT, cook a little bacon as a reward from time to time to keep it seasoned properly.

olsonca, Welcome to the campfire! I'd sure like to meet the guys who will be packing in a generator and big screen on a "high adventure" outing. They must be pretty stout. We must be green meanies in our troop. The campout we are going on in a couple of weeks is "backpacking". Actually we will set up camp and only hike out for the day. The purpose was three fold. One was to actually get a backpack with some weight in it instead of just a daypack and get them used to it. Another was to introduce them to trail food. The hidden purpose was to lighten the load. Our boys tend to want to bring everything including the kitchen sink and the SM is beginning to worry about the weight of the trailer. Surely scouts can live from Friday night until Sunday morning with the contents of a backpack instead of PC's, DVD players and MP3's.....not to mention their cabin tents, metal framed airbed and two huge plastic totes with enough clothes for 2 weeks. We are starting to look like a gypsy caravan going to camp.

seattle, 9 miles a day, 5 or 6 days a week? After some Googling, I consistently find that the average adult walking speed to be 3 MPH. That means you are walking 45 to 54 miles per week over a 15 to 18 hour time span. 3 hours per day. I commend you on having that much free time to dedicate to walking. Most of us don't have that luxury.

Acco, Not being morally straight is "usually" a matter of choice. Being skinny or fat is not always a choice. I've known guys who were pencil thin and couldn't for the life of them gain a pound. I've known obese people who no amount of diet or exercise seems to produce any significant weight loss. It has to do with metabolism. Yes, you can spur metabolism, but you have to continue to spur it forever. You don't just lose weight and it magically stays off. 30 years ago while a senior in high school, I lost 80 lbs in 4 months thru a high protien diet. I never exercised a bit. Over the last 30 years, I've gained it back. In an effort to take some of it off, I religiously went to the gym 3 to 4 times a week and worked my tail off and dieted very strictly for a year. I managed to take off 25 lbs at best. When I quit going to the gym, I put 30 lbs on in 3 months. What was the big difference? Having the metabolism of a 17 year old as opposed to the metabolism of a 47 year old. Not everyone is fat by choice, slothfulness and gluttony. Trust me, there isn't a single obese person out there who wants to be. But I find it much easier to say no to drugs, alcohol, stealing and pornography than I do to look fit and trim. It would take a major lifetime commitment to eating like a bird and living in the gym to return to my 17 year old size. I'm a dad, husband, son to an aging mother, employee, scouter, church member, etc. I find fulfilling those roles have a huge effect on my ability to be Jack Lalane.

What are the responsibilities of obese Scouters? The same as any other scouter. Seriously.

If we eliminated obese scouters, BSA would fold tomorrow!

hula, Take heart, what you describe is not the norm. I'm an ASM and my son is the SPL. Our SM's son was his ASPL. The ASPL's son acted extremely bad on a campout a couple of months ago. When I say extremely bad, I mean extremely bad. He was very uncooperative and disrespectful to boys and adults alike.....repeatedly. Our SM was unable to attend this particular campout which could have been the reason his son felt free to act as he did....or he could have just been having a bad weekend. Long story short, he was removed from his position of ASPL by agreement of the SM and committee. The committee chair is the boy's mom. Not all SM's grease the skids for their sons. Some hold them even more accountable than the other boys.

eagle90, Gee, maybe your committee meetings and troop is different than ours. I'm an ASM and my son is the SPL. I used to be our old pack's committee chair. I've yet to be involved in a committee meeting where what we discussed wasn't appropriate for an SPL to hear. He has been told and does understand that he COULD be asked to step out of the room for a few minutes if we needed to discuss a particular scout's problems. So far, we have not had to do that. Besides, being SPL, he has already had to deal with the problem scout before it ever got to the committee.....he was second in the loop right behind the PL. Drinking at the committee meeting?

Bob, I understand where you are coming from, but the flip side is that there are Scoutmasters who try to control what the boys do and does not represent the PLC to the committee. Sometimes it is good for the committee to hear the PLC's wishes from the SPL so they get a true picture of what the boys want as opposed to an SM that tells them they can't camp here or they can't do this type of activity. Should he be involved? Absolutely, he is the adult leader. But there are good reasons for making the SPL part of the team. I'd venture to say that there are more boys interested in being boy led than there are some SM's who want no part of it.

I get the feeling that this isn't camp cooking since you mentioned a bake sale. I also get the feeling that you are thinking of a wok as a form for making a spider shaped cake. If you are just looking for alternatives for baking a cake, there are many. I've experimented with baking a cake in a cardboard oven. You line a cardboard box with aliminum foil and place it over your cake pan. It helps to have the cake pan on a rack with a piece of charcoal or two underneath and then charcoal forming a ring a few inches away from the pan. You'll need to prop a corner of the box up with a rock to allow air flow. After doing this, I tried a different experiment that I dreamed up on my own. Our boys are rather lackluster in their desire to cook and therefore their skills. I wanted to show them how to improvise. Instead of baking a pizza in a dutch oven, I used a stainless steel mixing bowl. I used a stainless steel dining plate as my pizza pan and set it on a wire rack over the coals. The mixing bowl was larger around than the plate and I placed it upside down over the pizza pan. This allowed the pizza to bake from the bottom and the heat rolled up inside the bowl and reflected down on the top of the pizza to cook it as well. It actually turned out better and quicker than the one we did beside it in a dutch oven.

With only eight boys, you are better off with only one patrol. It presents problems such as not having a competitive factor since one patrol can't compete agains themselves. We started a new troop last June and only had enough boys for one patrol. In that case, we did not elect an SPL. The PL was acting SPL. We picked up 6 new boys this past month. Now we have our former patrol and a new boy patrol. We've held elections for SPL and the 2 PL positions. With 8 boys, make one patrol with one PL who fulfills the role of SPL until you have more boys. BTW, at election time we make our expectations known about what we expect out of the PL. If they are involved in sports, perhaps it is better for them to wait until the season is over to run for PL. There are other positions of responsibility open to them that won't require the same level of activity as PL that they could do during their sports season. You're cutting your own throat by letting someone you know will not be available to be elected for a position. Could you imagine electing a US President that spends a lot of time vacationing at a ranch when their is work to be done? Oh wait......never mind.

There are eight sparkplugs on an eight cylinder engine. Can you remove one and still get down the road? Sure. Will it be as smooth of a ride and will your fuel efficiency be as good? No. What happens when you pull a second, third and fourth sparkplug? The methods were derived at with a purpose and they all work together to accomplish the aims of Scouting. Me? I like a fine tuned engine. If others want to drive a lurching, chugging, fume belching machine down the road, more power to them. I'll see you at the end of the journey if you make it.

Some boys just don't care. In a troop we used to be involved in, we had a 17 year old Star. He could have easily finished if he had put forth the effort. He aged out and is now an ASM with the troop. He had been in scouting since Tigers. It was a shame and he may kick himself someday, but it was his decision.

2eagle, We don't disagree on much. I agree that doing things you don't like is a part of life and kids have to learn how to deal with it. When it is things like language, rushing teeth, doing homework, etc., you bet I can resort to the old "because I said so" if it comes to that. Scouting is great. I love it. I believe in it. I wish every boy could experience it. It is not the be all, end all of growing up though. I won't force my son to play baseball, learn to play the violin or be a part of scouting if those are things he has no interest in. Those are extracuricular activites and there are many many activities available to kids that teach discipline and character. Some kids simply don't like the outdoors and/or camping. It is kind of hard to participate and advance in scouting without doing some things outdoors. In that case, find something the boy IS interested in and set your expectation of commitment to it and make him stick to it. Sitting around isn't an option. Like I said, forcing a kid to stay in scouting for years against his will is doing no one a favor when he could be participating and growing in something he likes.

2eagle, I get your drift, but I respectfully disagree. My son has his limits and he knows what they are. We make our expectations of him clearly known. That is part of a parents job. However, making them do something they don't want to do only teaches them that mom and dad force him to be part of something he doesn't want to do. We have two boys in our troop who don't want to be there. One didn't want to be in cub scouts, but his mom made him. He crossed over to the troop with the majority of his fellow webelos. He doesn't want to be there either. As a result, he takes every opportunity to buck authority, misbehave, disrupt and make as many people miserable as he can. Frankly, I'm tired of having little talks with him and while I hate to see any boy drop out of scouts, my life would be easier and more pleasant if he would. His mom wants scouting to provide what she and his dad are not willing to supply or enforce at home. We have another who was really in to scouts as a cub and thru most of his first year of scouts. He has decided that he doesn't like it either. His dad is one of our ASM's and is trying everything he can think of to keep him interested. The boy recently ran for PL and won. However, he is putting no effort into it at all and also bucks authority at most every opportunity. As opposed to the other boy, he is salvagable and I hope it is just a phase he is going thru. Forcing them to stay in the troop isn't going to solve the problem unless it is just a phase that we can ride out. The problem is the example they set for the new boys coming into the troop and the general trouble they cause for us adults. I voluteered for this job because I love it and believe in the program. But, I'm a busy man with a lot of responsibilities and I could easily spend my valuable free time doing something I enjoy instead of corraling a kid who's parents make him be there against his wishes. You may want to teach your kid the value of sticking to something, but you are doing it at other people's expense. Scouting is different from sports in that it doesn't have a season. My son played baseball for four years or spring and fall seasons. I told him at the beginning of each season that I'd never make him play, but if he ever decided to quit, he would have to honor his committment and finish that season. He knew up front what the committment was and that he would be held to it. If a boy is in a position of leadership in a troop, then he has an obligation to do the job and finish it. But if he really wants to quit, forcing him to stay is doing so at the expense of hard working voluteers. Let him quit. Leave the door open for him to return. Once he is out, he might find he misses it. The better tactic is to tell him that when he quits, he has to replace it with something else that requires a committment. TV and video games are entertainment between his obligations only and stick to it. He'll get the same message without being forced into something he doesnt want.

Clinton missed the 1993 Jambo, but made the 1997 Jambo. Bush didn't attend the 2001 Jambo due to rain, but sent a video presentation. The president is usually a busy guy. His attendance while traditioanl is never ensured.

I like others here believe that each boy is individual and some are capable of advancing quickly while others are not for a wide variety of reasons. Not to be a wet blanket, but I have an uneasy feeling when I see everyone advancing at the same pace and you have 6 or 7 guys all making Life at 12.5. I don't know the particulars in these boy's case, but it sounds like they are taught and tested at the same time and attend merit badge fairs together. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they are really doing the work and not being rubber stamped for "doing their best" like Cubs. I've seen kids and their parents try to get requirements signed off because they have done "that" before a year or so ago. What you did a year ago in school or as a Webelos doesn't count for meeting a requirement for advancement or for a MB. It needs to be done while working on the rank or MB. There are leaders who are very tough on meeting the requirements and leaders who are very soft on meeting the requirments. Some want to see mastery of the skill or knowledge and others count it if you set thru a demonstration. Guess which ones will be better scouts in the long run? I believe an exceptional boy can earn Eagle at 13. Rare, but possible. I'm suspect when a whole group of boys do it all together because it smacks of being run thru the mill.

Congrats to an SR-542 Beaver from SR540Beaver! Well done!

Trev, Perhaps that is common practice among troops, I don't know. I do know that we have parents of new scouts who have yet to participate in a fundraiser who would rather have money in the scout's account to pay for monthly outings rather than have to remember to have cash on hand or write a check once a month. They put money in the account so they don't have to worry about being nickel and dimed at the meetings. Again, this is one of those issues where I'm not aware of BSA giving any guidance and a clear and concise written policy would avoid arguments down the road.....as much as I'm against written policies. When it comes to money, things can get very ugly.

OK, lets look at it from a different angle. Little Beav knocks his socks off selling popcorn door to door and his portion of the fundraising proceeds that goes into his account is $200. His buddy, a little plucky lad named Eamonn mows lawns during the summer and makes $200 to put into his scout account. Beav and Eamonn both decide that since they are outstading athletes, they want to quit scouting and be star players on the school football team. While you could make an argument that Beav raised his money thru a troop coordinated fundraiser and therefore isn't entitled to get any of the money when he leaves, can you make the same argument for the money Eamonn earned on his own and decided to deposit in HIS scout account? After all, everyone told him it would be better to set the money aside in his scout account and have it for use thru the scout year as opposed to blowing it all on Gatorade while the girls swoon over his athletic prowess on the field. Both earned it, but Eamonn earned it thru his own initiative. Actually, Beav and Eamonn both earned it, but one was earned thru a coordinated effort while one took his own initiative. Is Eamonn just out the money he earned and put into his account? Does it matter where the money came from as long as the boy earned it? I see troop money and the boys account as two different things. Troop money belongs to the CO. While the money earned by a boy is kept in the same general banking account and is seperated out on paper, it is none the less money he earned to be spent on scouting as he sees fit. No one can tell how to spend it on scouting or even that he has to spend it.

EagleinKY, You are right about the benefits package. However, lets say that your unit sells widgets to buy a troop trailer. It is known upfront that the trailer is the object of the fundraiser and that all proceeds go to its purchase. Your next fundraiser is selling doohickeys. 50% of the proceeds go to the troops general fund and 50% go to the scouts account. That is his money to be spent for scouting needs. Next you sell thingamabobs strictly as a fundraiser for all proceeds go into the scouts account. While in the troop, he can only spend the money for scouting purposes. But when he leaves the troop, did the fact that he got out and earned the money by the sweat of his brow not carry any weight in the final disposition of those funds? While I expect to get my paycheck for the hours I worked, I do realize I won't get money back for the benefits package. The boy obviously isn't going to get a wheel off of the trailer when he leaves, but should he not get the money he earned for his own personal use? We don't dip into the boy's accounts when the troop needs money to spend. Why should we get to keep it when he leaves? To some degree, I'm playing devil's advocate here. Most of the boys in our troop have anywhere from $20 to $80 in their accounts today and the higher end would only go halfway to paying for summer camp. So, we are not talking big bucks. Some walk off and never even give it any thought. One boy's family told us to keep any funds he had as a gift to the troop.