shortridge

I can't answer the second question for you, but there's information on traditional neckerchiefs - including how to make them - at Kudu's Inquiry.net site. The article gives the dimensions as 32x32. http://www.inquiry.net/uniforms/neckerchief/index.htm

Narraticong, I would respectfully disagree with several of your points. Many families these days are single-parent households, and many are single mothers. I believe that those parents should have just as much an opportunity to get involved with their children's lives as parents of another gender. Adult association doesn't simply refer to men. "There are enough distractions for our young men outside of Scouting. Scouting is the one place they can focus on becoming men of character." Since Scouting includes Venturing, which is co-educational, I'd disagree with you. If Venturing and Boy Scouts were two completely separate programs, then I might agree with you. But there is a significant degree of overlap, if a Boy Scout wants there to be. "Yes, I am a dinosaur. I fondly remember the day when a Scout asking "Where's my Axe?" was looking to cut some firewood, not to smell good for a fellow Scout! LOL... OK, I've got to remember that one.

I am of mixed mind on the issue. On the one hand, it would be great to get some new energy into the Order, which some motivated Venturers could provide. Many of the Venturing youth leaders in my area are young women, and they'd make fantastic chapter and lodge officers. They'd bring a lot of great new ideas. In addition, there is no similar honor organization that I know of within the Girl Scouts of the U.S.A., so this could provide an added boost to Venturing if marketed properly. The Corps of Discovery isn't oriented in that direction; if it were, I think that would be a great thing, but it's not. And finally, I can't come up with a good way to tell my daughter - eligible for Venturing in 10 years' time - that she can't join the organization from which I gained so much, simply because she's a girl. On the other hand, opening it up to Venturers generally would require a rethinking of the OA's historic purpose as an honor camper society, as Venturing crews are not necessarily outdoor-oriented. However, that seems to be a moot point already with the slogan of "Scouting's Honor Society" that's come about since my time as a youth. (I disagree with that tack, but it's practically ancient history by now.) It would also require some changes to the logistics of conducting an Ordeal. But those aren't really objections, just observations, and certainly don't outweigh my initial thoughts. Since I don't have a vote, however, I'll just sit back and watch.

Do you have a background in journalism or public relations? I can't offer any Jambo-specific advice, but may have some suggestions generally from the POV of a working journalist, if you'd like.

Eagledad, Thanks very much! I agree wholeheartedly with your view of summer camp. MBs, sure, but fun activities, too. My camp has added such offerings as Golf, Graphic Arts and Auto Mechanics in recent years. To me, that's a bit much.

Interesting rumor... sure would make the inductions logistics an much more challenging task.

The "Onward For God and My Country" program seems to have been a four-year initiative begun in 1956 and running through 1960. Troop 180 of Carmel, Ind., has a Web site with a history of the Quality Unit Award that includes this statement: A four year program called "Onward for God and my Country" ran from 1956 to 1960. Unit goals and achievements were again set at the time of registration around manpower, program, and membership. Units earned the "Onward for God and my Country" Award for attaining 75% of its goals and showing a net increase in youth. Council's had to attain 75% of their achievements in "Ten Test of Successful Scouting" and show net growth. http://www.troop180carmel.com/Quality%20Unit%20History.pdf I found some tangential references here: http://www.bsa14.org/history/1950.html http://www.geocities.com/~PACK215/hist-cshistory.html http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/spc/xml/m0855.xml There's also a Norman Rockwell painting of that title, with George Washington kneeling in prayer in the background, and a Boy Scout and Cub Scout in the foreground. And by the way, kudos for sorting through and organizing your troop's history! You might want to look at giving a copy of your research to the local historical society and library in your area. I'm sure they'd love to have it. (This message has been edited twice by shortridge)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

You might have heard about the Corps of Discovery, which includes pocket flaps that look very similar to OA lodge flaps. There are others on here who know more than I do about the program, but the National Venturing Youth Cabinet seems to have a good summary: "It should be noted that the Corps of Discovery is not an official part of the Venturing program but is a grassroots program in Venturing. The Corps of Discovery, a Service Society within the Venturing program, has been created at the local level to recognize Venturers and adult Venturing Leaders who provide exemplary service to their Districts and Local Councils. It is a local decision to use the Corps of Discovery pocket flap for this purpose, and the Corps of Discovery and its pocket flap are not intended to replace or compete with Order of the Arrow, a program of the Boy Scout Division for a different age group and purpose. Corps of Discovery is not a camping nor a Local Scout Camp program. It is not an honor society, but is dedicated to the promotion of and service to the Venturing Program within the local Council and District." Other sources of information (though non-canonical): http://www.sageventure.com/COD/ http://www.geocities.com/ritter_me/codindex.html

Eagledad, As a point of interest, how do your Scouts follow the MB sign-up guidelines (get a list of counselors, contact counselor, set up meetings, etc.) at summer camp? My experience has been that there's usually one counselor per badge and they meet at set times during the day.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Crew21, those programs have indeed been around for a while in some areas. My council ran a Trail to Eagle provisional camp for several years in the '90s, offering Eagle-required badges. It ran the week following the last week of summer camp and had an all-volunteer staff. It was attractive to many Scouts because the cost was lower than regular summer camp - in part because the Scouts helped take camp down. The program was then folded into the regular summer camp program as "Eagle Base." It used to be based at a lodge a short hike away from main camp, but has since been mainstreamed into the regular program area. You can still go as a provisional camper, but the MBs are also open to anyone attending with their units. It offers Citizenship in the World, Citizenship in the Nation, Emergency Prep, Personal Management, Lifesaving, Computers, Communications and First Aid. One neat element is that the Citizenship in the Nation participants do a day trip to D.C., since we're just a few hours away. I can see the value to some Scouts, but overall, I'm not a huge fan of such programs. Camp should have an outdoors emphasis, IMHO. I'd be in favor of folding Emergency Prep and First Aid into the outdoor skills program area and have done with it. I would love to see a Ranger Rendezvous-type program - a week or long weekend - for Venturers... not so much to get the items checked off, but just to expose them to a wide range of local opportunities and program options.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Don't forget wool clothing from Goodwill and other thrift shops. Grey dress slacks may look a little funny, but they'll keep them warm. $3-5 a pop.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Regarding Eagle92's references to the conclave-Webelos conflict... in my neck of the woods, the term "conclave" only refers to gatherings of the OA Section, encompassing multiple councils, and for which dates are set 2-3 years in advance. If that's the case, then I would generally expect some degree of conflict, as you're talking about coordinating the events of several councils and many districts. Seems like it would be easier for the local Webelos event to be scheduled around the conclave if the organizers expect Arrowmen to staff it. If I misunderstand, however, please ignore what I just wrote.

Easy answer: Yes.

I'm sure other people have specific ideas, but for me, it comes down to two primary things: - Program, program, program. Too often, I've seen "fellowship" events reduced to root beer floats, board games and a patch auction. Would you go to that if it weren't an OA function? A chapter or lodge can do anything a patrol or troop can - high adventure treks, survival campouts, etc. - Staff, staff, staff. Hook up with the district or council and make sure the people in charge of summer camp, day camps, Webelos Woods, Adventure Days, camporees, etc., can draw on OA members any time for staff, as long as it's not detrimental to their units. Serving on staff gives the OA instant cachet.

One last attempt to try to read out of the same playbook, and I'm done for now. I understand that she will go to training in February, but in the councils I have been in we are seding scouters to training this year for the next years camp. Asking her to learn he job in February and have everything in place befor June is too short a time period... I wish I'd served in the Mary Poppins Council! (You know, practically perfect in every way...) Around here, even for Boy Scout resident summer camp, which is a much more complex organism than Cub day camp, the PD doesn't get sent to NCS until the spring; the area directors don't go until a few weeks before camp opens. A lot of people just can't commit that far in advance. And that's with the incentive of a summer salary, not volunteers. Speaking only from my own perspective (Scoutcraft director), NCS won't teach you everything you need to know to do your job. It'll teach you how to follow the rules, fill out the forms and check off the requirements. It'll give you some program ideas you hadn't thought of before, and introduce you to new people. It is valuable, for certain. But it cannot create enthusiasm and energy and creativity - the key intangible elements of camp program - from whole cloth. As I said before she has a district/council administration that either does not care if she fails or does not know how to help her succeed. It is a good idea to stay away from either. Unfortunately, that creates a vicious cycle. No one steps up because there's no support; there's no support because no one steps up. No dysfunctional group would ever get fixed, according to this point of view, because everyone who could fix it would be backing away. It sometimes DOES take someone stepping off the cliff and taking that plunge to get things repaired. I applaud speeglevillemom for her work. Fin.

I never made one, but they sure look fun. You can also check out Dan Beard's books for examples of other simple, small watercraft, such as the Man-Friday.

Sounds like you mean something similar to a coracle. Try these sites: - www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/2003-04-01/Craft-and-Coracle.aspx - www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/6746/coracles.html - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle

BW wrote: AS an aside, I'm not sure who Shortridge was channeling but I believe he tuned into the wrong channel. The Charter organization does not own the program...they own the unit. The BSA owns the program and the charter organization agrees to follow it. You're right - I used the word "program" twice in one sentence, which doesn't make sense. Thanks for pointing that out. However, the BSA's own statement on the roles of COs hardly reflects ownership. Everyone could use a good editor... They manage these units and control the program of activities to support the goals and objectives of the chartered organizations. (http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-507.aspx)

Brown-bag lunches work just fine. The bottom line is that they're lot simpler than trying to navigate the food-service and health inspection laws that may apply in your jurisdiction if you try to fix it all up yourself. BW, speeglevillemom was inquiring about an opportunity to serve others through Scouting. No need to talk about somebody being pushed or jumping off a cliff. Sounds to me like genuine curiosity from an enthusiastic person who has a lot of ideas and can't wait for a return e-mail to find out what the job entails! I can't fault that by any means.

... lodges do have restrictions on their flaps, so not everyone has a flap on their uniform. You're right. Sorry, I keep forgetting this, having come from a lodge that churned out a new specialty flap every couple of years. Not to get off-topic, but I continue to think restrictions are a ridiculous policy. The sash is supposed to be the indicator of the honor, not the flap.

I was trying to avoid the R-word, but yeah, that's what I was talking about. Please note that the only argument I'm making is in favor of openness and tolerance, definitely NOT for exclusion. I was just trying to point out the many steps that will need to be taken to accomplish what National seems to be aiming for, without suffering a racist backlash. I really do hope the initiative succeeds. It can only strengthen Scouting.

If I can channel another poster here.... the Scouting program belongs to the chartered organizations to help achieve their youth program goals. We all know that doesn't always work out perfectly. But that does bring up a valid point: If that's the BSA model, it seems to me that any Hispanic/Latino outreach effort will have to focus on building relationships with organizations first and finding out what they want, rather than trying to dictate a top-down program. If the churches and community centers aren't interested, it's impossible to force it on them. And without a CO, you can't have Scouting. You also have to consider that "Hispanic" or "Latino" is not a universal group. There are wildly varying differences between people of Puerto Rican, Mexican and Cuban descent, from culture to language - and yet they're all placed under the umbrella of "Hispanic." Any national initiative will have to be sensitive to these differences. There's also going to have to be a significant amount of attention paid to cultural and language awareness among Anglo Scouts and Scouters, if there's going to be any real attempt to bring the two groups together. In my area, there's a substantial amount of anti-immigrant, anti-Hispanic sentiment among many white residents. I can imagine that playing out in a very un-Scoutlike manner at a camporee or summer camp, to the detriment of all sides. Even well-intentioned, welcoming people can commit a major faux pas by not speaking proper Spanish.

I never liked the OA arrow dangle because it kept flopping around. If you've got your lodge flap, it accomplishes the same purpose. Non-members will ask you about the OA, and you can explain it without getting into a whole lot of detail about the honors. If you're at an OA function, you're probably wearing your sash. As for pink neckerchiefs - try an entire camp staff lined up with muted-hot-pink scarves. The official designation was "coral," but no one called them that. (They became collectors' items, of course.) Another year, it was kente cloth - a stylized African design that I always thought was cool, kind of like a tartan pattern.

Don't forget to mix in (maybe by executive fiat?) some fun stuff the Cubs can mostly do themselves - hobo dinners, pita pizzas, egg-in-an-orange peel.

40 kids at a single station? Wow! The camps I've staffed have split kids up into dens or packs, with an average of about 15 kids. They can combine with other groups for larger activities - the pool will support a couple groups at the same time, for example. But there are only so many practice ropes to go around for knot-tying, say, and nature hikes aren't manageable with giant groups, so those are only scheduled one group at a time. Another general consideration is that a lot of what you can plan depends on the facilities you have available. If it's at a council camp, you'll have a lot of the infrastructure ready to go and be able to adapt the area pretty freely. If it's at a rented space - a state park or a community college campus, for example - you'll have much less flexibility.